Harvard Scholar Arrested for Being Black

[GG]

Well, who knows if he said anything about the neighbor.

 

It's in all the news reports - "He said that he doesn't know the neighbor who called police and that "she was probably doing the right thing." He said he harbors more anger toward the officer who arrested "the first black man" he saw and arrested him on a "trumped-up charge."

[X. Benedict]

Once again, my argument is the B.S racism card.

 

I still think that Gates "acted stupidly" and continues to "act stupidly", and I think it was "stupid" for Obama to come out and say that the policeman "acted stupidly" before knowing all the facts.

 

Well at least he showed the uppity black professor he was wrong about the racism card by arresting him on his own porch on a dumb charge and detaining him for four hours on an arrest punishable by up to 6 months in jail.

[Kelly the Dog]

What you said earlier, which is what I've been saying is most likely what happened.

 

Gates is at his house, police officer comes in, tells him that there was a report of a possible burglary, asks man for I.D, Gates becomes offended, accuses cop of racism, they exchange more words, gates provides proof of ID, gates continues to act like a jackass, cop becomes offended and fed up, cop arrests him.

What's missing in that play-by-play is the thing that set Gates off. The cop didn't ask him for ID, the cop asked him to step outside.

 

I'm an extremely easy going guy in real life (despite liking to argue here). Ridiculously so, in fact. The one thing that pisses me off is getting blamed for something I know I didn't do. That changes my attitude instantly. I'm sure no one likes it. That's what racial profiling is all about. When the cop came to the door and said there was a break-in, he should have asked for ID. He didn't, he asked Gates to come outside. That, to Gates, meant he thought Gates didn't belong inside, or that it wasn't his house. You may not think that's a big deal but to a guy like Gates, it's a huge deal. It defines racial profiling.

[Kelly the Dog]

It couldn't be that it is safer to bring a homeowner out of a house that possibly has an intruder inside. Seems perfectly logical to me that it would be safer for the police to ask a homeowner or suspect to come out of the house while things are sorted out.

If that were true, if that is what Crowley was thinking, he would have said there is reason to believe someone is in your house.

[X. Benedict]

I'm putting the over/under for wrongful arrest at 8 million.

 

I like the over.

[Magox]

Answer me this:

 

Affluent neighborhood. There is a report of a break-in. Cop goes to house and knocks on the door. Well dressed white guy answers the door while talking on the phone and says "Can I help you?"

 

What would or should the cop say to him?

"There was a report of a possible burglary at this residence, can I see your ID?"

 

 

Dog, I have my own business, and I have ADT as my alarm service. Every day I go into work with my suit and tie, (except fridays, casual day), and a few months ago, I forgot my phone, which is where I have my alarm code, and usually I don't open up the office because usually my secretary comes in before I do. I have another gentleman that works with me as well, that was there with me this morning, older, white male, in his 60's, very distinguished, and the alarm went off because I didn't know the code, I thought I remembered it, but I didn't. Police come, 2 squad cars within a couple minutes, the alarm is going off, we decided to wait outside because we figured the police would be coming shortly. The very first thing they asked was for my ID, and that my alarm service had gone off, and I can tell you this, they did not seem friendly. They did not come and say Hi, they didn't ask for me to please hand me my ID, they were gaurded and to the point.

[Kelly the Dog]

It's in all the news reports - "He said that he doesn't know the neighbor who called police and that "she was probably doing the right thing." He said he harbors more anger toward the officer who arrested "the first black man" he saw and arrested him on a "trumped-up charge."

Well, she thought she saw two guys breaking into a house. I could see why Gates would say that. I'm sure he knows people break into houses, and black people break into houses, and he knows that his driver broke through the front door with his shoulder.

 

The second part is absolutely true, it was the first black guy he saw and it was a trumped up charge.

 

People are over-sensitive to race issues. A Harvard professor who teaches African American studies and whose memoir is named "Colored People" is especially sensitive to race issues. He took offense when the policeman didn't just let him go.

 

Again, I think it was a dick-swinging contest, and both sides are equally to blame. But I totally understand why Gates thinks it was a racial thing, and others don't see it at all as a racial thing. That alone, to me, explains why there is still a huge racial problem in the country.

[Kelly the Dog]

"There was a report of a possible burglary at this residence, can I see your ID?"

That's right. But he didn't, according to Gates. And that's why Gates got pissed and thought it was racial.

[Magox]

What's missing in that play-by-play is the thing that set Gates off. The cop didn't ask him for ID, the cop asked him to step outside.

 

I'm an extremely easy going guy in real life (despite liking to argue here). Ridiculously so, in fact. The one thing that pisses me off is getting blamed for something I know I didn't do. That changes my attitude instantly. I'm sure no one likes it. That's what racial profiling is all about. When the cop came to the door and said there was a break-in, he should have asked for ID. He didn't, he asked Gates to come outside. That, to Gates, meant he thought Gates didn't belong inside, or that it wasn't his house. You may not think that's a big deal but to a guy like Gates, it's a huge deal. It defines racial profiling.

That is not what the police officers report says. It doesn't make sense Dog Gates's account of the story. Here's why: Let's just assume that Gates is telling the truth, and that he asked him to step outside first as opposed to asking him for his ID, which I really don't see the problem with that anyway, but for arguments sake, let's just say that is how it went down.

 

If it went down that way, then why is it that the other police officer Figueroa says that when he arrived to the scene, they were all ready inside the house, and Gates had refused to show his ID.

 

If Gates was telling the truth, and let's remember here, up to this point the police officer thinks that Gates could be the burglar right? And he asks Gates to come outside, and Gates says no, remember, in the Police officers mind, he is responding to a possible burglary, so if Gates refused to come outside, don't you think that warrants further action from the police officer? Is he suppose to just take his word on it?

 

In Figueroas account, he says that he entered the home and up to this point Gates refused to provide ID.

 

So like I said, it's who do you believe and based on what I've seen of gates and heard from the cops and neighbors it is clear to me that Gates is a douchebag.

 

And who cares anyway if he asked him to come outside first? even if it did happen that way, which I don't believe for a second.

 

He's responding to a possible B/E, if the cop tells you to come outside, You !@#$ing go outside! Simple, none of this would of happened if he would of just complied.

[X. Benedict]

Well, she thought she saw two guys breaking into a house. I could see why Gates would say that. I'm sure he knows people break into houses, and black people break into houses, and he knows that his driver broke through the front door with his shoulder.

 

The second part is absolutely true, it was the first black guy he saw and it was a trumped up charge.

 

People are over-sensitive to race issues. A Harvard professor who teaches African American studies and whose memoir is named "Colored People" is especially sensitive to race issues. He took offense when the policeman didn't just let him go.

 

Again, I think it was a dick-swinging contest, and both sides are equally to blame. But I totally understand why Gates thinks it was a racial thing, and others don't see it at all as a racial thing. That alone, to me, explains why there is still a huge racial problem in the country.

 

Race or not. Police power is based on enforcing behavior the State needs to regulate.

 

The State has no interest in prosecuting any behavior that Gates demonstrated as far as I can tell.

Which will be the end...

 

A huge lawsuit against the municipality that was made ostensibly for of protecting the good order of the municipality.

 

Well done, Cambridge.

[GG]

Again, I think it was a dick-swinging contest, and both sides are equally to blame. But I totally understand why Gates thinks it was a racial thing, and others don't see it at all as a racial thing. That alone, to me, explains why there is still a huge racial problem in the country.

 

A big reason there's still a racial problem in the country is that the incident that was not racially motivated was turned into one, and it wasn't by the cop. Even if most people agree that the arrest was over the top, there is nothing in the facts of the case that support the theory that Gates was arrested because he was black or that he was profiled by the cops because he was black.

 

So now, you have the regular sounding board screaming racism, when the whole incident is the result of a spearing contest gone badly.

[X. Benedict]

A big reason there's still a racial problem in the country is that the incident that was not racially motivated was turned into one, and it wasn't by the cop. Even if most people agree that the arrest was over the top, there is nothing in the facts of the case that support the theory that Gates was arrested because he was black or that he was profiled by the cops because he was black.

 

So now, you have the regular sounding board screaming racism, when the whole incident is the result of a spearing contest gone badly.

 

The arrest while probably not racist in the mind of the officer, was at the very least gratuitous.

[Kelly the Dog]

That is not what the police officers report says. It doesn't make sense Dog Gates's account of the story. Here's why: Let's just assume that Gates is telling the truth, and that he asked him to step outside first as opposed to asking him for his ID, which I really don't see the problem with that anyway, but for arguments sake, let's just say that is how it went down.

 

If it went down that way, then why is it that the other police officer Figueroa says that when he arrived to the scene, they were all ready inside the house, and Gates had refused to show his ID.

 

If Gates was telling the truth, and let's remember here, up to this point the police officer thinks that Gates could be the burglar right? And he asks Gates to come outside, and Gates says no, remember, in the Police officers mind, he is responding to a possible burglary, so if Gates refused to come outside, don't you think that warrants further action from the police officer? Is he suppose to just take his word on it?

 

In Figueroas account, he says that he entered the home and up to this point Gates refused to provide ID.

 

So like I said, it's who do you believe and based on what I've seen of gates and heard from the cops and neighbors it is clear to me that Gates is a douchebag.

 

And who cares anyway if he asked him to come outside first? even if it did happen that way, which I don't believe for a second.

 

He's responding to a possible B/E, if the cop tells you to come outside, You !@#$ing go outside! Simple, none of this would of happened if he would of just complied.

I think that's dumb. The cop KNEW he wasn't the thief. The cop knocked on the front door and Gates answered, on the phone. The thief is going to break in, and then make calls and answer the front door where a uniformed officer is standing? Gates got set off because he thought the cop didn't believe he should be there.

 

The cop did two things that set Gates off. They may seem small to you, and others. And if it happened to me, I would think it was small. But to a guy like Gates it isn't small at all, it's huge. It's something white people seem to not be able to understand about racial profiling.

[Kelly the Dog]

A big reason there's still a racial problem in the country is that the incident that was not racially motivated was turned into one, and it wasn't by the cop. Even if most people agree that the arrest was over the top, there is nothing in the facts of the case that support the theory that Gates was arrested because he was black or that he was profiled by the cops because he was black.

 

So now, you have the regular sounding board screaming racism, when the whole incident is the result of a spearing contest gone badly.

I am repeating myself from another post but I am specifically interested in what you have to say about it. In my mind, and in your mind, it wasn't a racial thing. And what the cop did, if we are to believe Gates, is extremely minor and insignificant, and Gates should have just shrugged it off. But IMO, that's because we are white, and the insignificant thing to us is a major thing to Gates and other minorities who experience or are worried about racial profiling.

 

Asking Gates to come outside of the house first, instead of asking Gates for his ID first, TO GATES, was a racial slam. It meant, to Gates, that the cop thought Gates didn't belong in that house. Gates thought, and said this specifically, that the cop wouldn't have said that to a white guy, he just would have asked for ID to prove it was his house. Whether that is true or not is immaterial, that's how Gates perceived it and I guarantee a lot of other black people in his position would have perceived it that way. I wouldn't have, you wouldn't have, but he did. And I agree with Gates that the cop probably wouldnt have asked a white guy to step outside, but I am not positive about that.

 

Then, after he showed ID, the cop asked another question. That really set Gates off, because it was affirmation to Gates that the cop didn't think he belonged there. At that point, according to Gates, the cop should have just said thank you sir and walked away. But since he didn't (and he probably didn't because Gates was being pissy), Gates again thought it was racially motivated. That if a white guy showed his ID the cop would have said thank you and walked away.

 

That scenario, which I could easily believe is what happened, makes sense to me.

[Magox]

I think that's dumb. The cop KNEW he wasn't the thief. The cop knocked on the front door and Gates answered, on the phone. The thief is going to break in, and then make calls and answer the front door where a uniformed officer is standing? Gates got set off because he thought the cop didn't believe he should be there.

 

The cop did two things that set Gates off. They may seem small to you, and others. And if it happened to me, I would think it was small. But to a guy like Gates it isn't small at all, it's huge. It's something white people seem to not be able to understand about racial profiling.

Just because you think it is dumb Dog doesn't make it incorrect. You don't just take a persons word at face value if you are a police officer responding to a possible B/E at the residence. When the possible suspect refuses to cooperate it doesn't help matters out. Come on Dog, you have to realize that.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

That's fine, but what does that have to do with the situation? Because he has a 'different perspective' he is allowed to abuse cops for doing their job? Are cops not supposed to ask black guys for ID because they might be 'sensitive to racial issues'?

 

Kelly had it right a page or two back. This was a dick swinging contest between two stubborn guys that both could have defused the situation but choose not to. But it had nothing to do with race. At least until Gates starting using it as an excuse for his arrest.

 

My comment had nothing to do with the conflict between Gates and Crowley, it had to do with all of the commenters here calling Gates a race-baiting D-bag, as if they are inside his head or something.

[Magox]

Asking Gates to come outside of the house first, instead of asking Gates for his ID first, TO GATES, was a racial slam. It meant, to Gates, that the cop thought Gates didn't belong in that house.

Once again, you are going by Gates's account.

 

Also, if Gates thinks that the cop felt like he didn't belong in the house and that was a racial slam, then that is just "dumb"

[Ramius]

I am repeating myself from another post but I am specifically interested in what you have to say about it. In my mind, and in your mind, it wasn't a racial thing. And what the cop did, if we are to believe Gates, is extremely minor and insignificant, and Gates should have just shrugged it off. But IMO, that's because we are white, and the insignificant thing to us is a major thing to Gates and other minorities who experience or are worried about racial profiling.

 

Asking Gates to come outside of the house first, instead of asking Gates for his ID first, TO GATES, was a racial slam. It meant, to Gates, that the cop thought Gates didn't belong in that house. Gates thought, and said this specifically, that the cop wouldn't have said that to a white guy, he just would have asked for ID to prove it was his house. Whether that is true or not is immaterial, that's how Gates perceived it and I guarantee a lot of other black people in his position would have perceived it that way. I wouldn't have, you wouldn't have, but he did.

 

Then, after he showed ID, the cop asked another question. That really set Gates off, because it was affirmation to Gates that the cop didn't think he belonged there. At that point, according to Gates, the cop should have just said thank you sir and walked away. But since he didn't (and he probably didn't because Gates was being pissy), Gates again thought it was racially motivated. That if a white guy showed his ID the cop would have said thank you and walked away.

 

That scenario, which I could easily believe is what happened, makes sense to me.

 

Got it. So it still comes down to an "anti-racist" looking to play the race card any and every single time some white guy says something he doesn't like. Gates (and his attitude of whitey is out to get me) is the real problem here.

[Magox]

My comment had nothing to do with the conflict between Gates and Crowley, it had to do with all of the commenters here calling Gates a race-baiting D-bag, as if they are inside his head or something.

according to your logic then lets just not opinionate on what anyone ever thinks. gotcha!!

[GG]

The arrest while probably not racist in the mind of the officer, was at the very least gratuitous.

 

It was, but highly doubtful that it was racially motivated.

 

Back in the stone age when I went to college, we had the requisite freshman orientation with the local police. One of the first things they said that to stay out of more trouble with the law if we ever get into a situation with police is to start ranting and raving, especially pulling out the "you don't know who my father is" card.

 

Sounds like Gates never had this type of an orientation. Cops go on power trips because they can and the type of job they do. I think that it's an accepted trade for society at large, given the risk that's entailed in their job.

 

While there are certainly plenty of examples of racial profiling, this was not the case. If anything, Crowley probably treated Gates like he would have anyone else in a similar circumstance when he responded to the call. I can argue that Gates' view that he wasn't treated more deferentially at the outset is what escalated the episode.

 

Which brings us a full circle to why cries of racism still exist. It's a two way street.