nucci Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Despite the criminal record, OJ has GOT to be the best RB the Bills ever had. Thurman is second, and I put Cribbs in the pack with the likes of Travis Henry and the like. I thought if Cribbs had played a long career with the Bills, he could have been just as good as Thurman. He was the perfect 3 down back during that time and was a very dangerous receiver like Thurman. Teams could not cover him in the passing game and Fergy threw to him just like Kelly threw to Thomas.
SouthernMan Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Relax. Nobody's jumping down anyone's throat. If I misunderstood your meaning, my apologies. But go ahead and insult my reading comprehension and keep on condescending as well. GO BILLS!!! This happens every year about this time. Anyone else notice how testy so many of us get just before camp starts? Let's all take a deep breath. Sorry K-9. Didn't mean to jump down your throat. I love you, man.
bdelma Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Okay,Cribbs sucked! I get it... the fact that he was one of the early multiple threat running backs in the league, was rookie of the year, was near the top in rushing multiple times, and set then club records for receptions by a running back means nothing... he was no better than Shawn Bryson.... If he had played in Joe Walsh's west coast offense, in his prime, the guy would have been a legend, or at least every bit as highly regarded as Roger Craig. As for the stats being worse than Thurman's, as I said, Thurman got huge chunks of yardage running out of passing situations...how many times did he run the ball up the middle, out of a shotgun formation? I suppose somebody can dig those stats out somewhere, but I would guess it was a significant amount of his yardage. Cribbs didn't have that luxury. Not to mention, Cribbs, like Thurman, was an excellent blocker...and he was a pretty tough kid. Cribbs may not be better than Thurman, but, to lump him in with players like Greg Bell, Harmon, Miller, etc, causes me to question if you ever watched him play, or if you just have a bad memory. Also, note, I said Thurman was #2 in my Bills lifetime (which started in 1972!!!), so I wasn't forgetting Cookie Gilchrist...I just don't like talking about players that I never saw play...and the notion that Thurman was a better running back than OJ Simpson is ludicrous... we may like him better as a human being, but on the field Simpson was perhaps one of the 4 or 5 best running backs in the history of the game... I don't think you could make that same argument, very convincingly, about Thurman. Cribbs was excellent out of the back field. And was tough!
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Your "quite sure" feeling would be dead wrong. Thurman had 60 and 62 reception seasons in his first 4 years...and a 49. In those same 4 years (including his first part-time year), TT had 39 TDs, and 6800 yards from scrimmage. So even in his first 4 years, Cribbs...as good as he was in that stretch...was not as good as TT in any category. After those 4 years of course, TT was a top back for another 4 years. I'm sorry, at one point did I say take Thurm off the wall and put Cribbs up there? I was wrong on the stat, yes, but your other stuff is pretty much minutia for a comparison I wasn't referencing...nice job, though, seriously, cause that is good information in showing how great Thurm was, and very worthy of the Wall and the Hall. I said I don't think he will go on the wall, but, in the middle years of this franchise's 50 year history he was a very special back.
John Adams Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I'm sorry, at one point did I say take Thurm off the wall and put Cribbs up there? I was wrong on the stat, yes, but your other stuff is pretty much minutia for a comparison I wasn't referencing...nice job, though, seriously, cause that is good information in showing how great Thurm was, and very worthy of the Wall and the Hall. I said I don't think he will go on the wall, but, in the middle years of this franchise's 50 year history he was a very special back. I posted the receptions stats to show you were wrong--when someone says they are "quite certain" of something but are in fact incorrect, it's good to set the record staraight. I posted the remaining stats to show how much better TT was than Cribbs, since that is the topic this thread seems to be discussing. There's a reason his moves are the 5th day of Christmas. For a short window, Cribbs was a very good RB.
NewEra Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. People who look solely at stats to judge a player aren't getting the whole picture. The way Cribbs was handled in Buffalo (in fact the way the whole squad was handled) by the owner in the early 1980's is a big part of the reason that many who have been around a little longer weren't losing any sleep at the prospect of Mr Wilson not making it to the Hall Of Fame. Those were the best teams the Bills had since the AFL Championship days, but the owner pretty much alienated everyone involved. People remember Cribbs taking his services to the USFL, but he only did it, after fulfilling his contractal obligation to the Bills (playing his ass off his entire lame duck season), because he could. He was talanted enough to have that option. Guys like Smerlas and Haslett pissed and moaned about their salaries constantly, but people forget that. Cribbs went to the USFL, played three pro football seasons in two, led the USFL in rushing, and then, when the USFL folded, had to return to the Bills, if he wanted to play. He was beat up at that point, but played hard, the limited amount of time he was given the field. Cribbs was sort of a pre-curser to guys like Thurman, a great combination of speed, strenghth, football intelligence... beyond being a hell of a runner, he was a great receiver too, in an era where pass catching RB's wasn't very common. Cribbs won't go on the Wall of Fame, because you can't put everyone there, and, because as great as he was, he didn't play long enough for the Bills to belong there...but make no mistake, he was a great running back, not just good... well said. still my favorite bill of all-time. He was a special back. Those that don't believe, don't know much about football, or havent really seen him play
dave mcbride Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Your "quite sure" feeling would be dead wrong. Thurman had 60 and 62 reception seasons in his first 4 years...and a 49. In those same 4 years (including his first part-time year), TT had 39 TDs, and 6800 yards from scrimmage. So even in his first 4 years, Cribbs...as good as he was in that stretch...was not as good as TT in any category. After those 4 years of course, TT was a top back for another 4 years. 1982 was basically a half season. Do it by games, not seasons.
thewildrabbit Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 The 80's Bills were good and fun to watch but they were not even close to the Bills of the 90's. Cribbs would always beg for the ball on third and short and sometimes he made the first down, sometimes he didn't. He was a really good RB, not great though. 3 pro bowls because Chuck Knox built a really good OL and they used him as a receiver and KR Joe Ferguson was a good QB, not great. All I can recall of him is his head hanging when he would throw an INT or the drive would end, I couldn't stand that head hanging stuff. The Bermuda triangle with Fred Smerlas NT, LB Shane Nelson and LB Jim Haslett were really good until Nelson blew out his knee and they never found another Nelson. My favorite Bills player back then was Jerry Butler, man he would make some amazing catches.Frank Lewis and Lou Piccone were also fun to watch. Had Chuck Knox stayed in Buffalo perhaps the Bills would have made the playoffs more in the 80's, after he left he called Buffalo a coaches graveyard.
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I posted the receptions stats to show you were wrong--when someone says they are "quite certain" of something but are in fact incorrect, it's good to set the record staraight. I posted the remaining stats to show how much better TT was than Cribbs, since that is the topic this thread seems to be discussing. There's a reason his moves are the 5th day of Christmas. For a short window, Cribbs was a very good RB. Very fair points, JA. On a side note, I really do wonder sometimes what may have happened if Cribbs had stuck around in Buffalo from 80-88. Seriously, I don't know. Could he have been at least "great" or would he have petered out by 85-86? It's a shame we (and he) never got a chance to find out.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 You can argue Cribbs merits all you want. The fact is the Wall is for former Bills that hold a special place in Fans hearts. Cribbs tore that heart out of the fans & shredded it. He will never be on the wall.
K-9 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 This happens every year about this time. Anyone else notice how testy so many of us get just before camp starts? Let's all take a deep breath. Sorry K-9. Didn't mean to jump down your throat. I love you, man. Group hug! No apology necessary. Like you said, it's that testy time of year. GO BILLS!!!
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Group hug! No apology necessary. Like you said, it's that testy time of year. GO BILLS!!! I...need...foot...ball...right...f'ng...NOW!! You are right, we are all chomping at the bit and we need somebody, somewhere to start playing or practicing...yesterday!!!
tennesseeboy Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 How can we EVER talk about adding any other running back before Cookie Gilchrist?
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 How can we EVER talk about adding any other running back before Cookie Gilchrist? First, love Bobby J. Second, damn, you're right. Third, I think Cookie wants to be paid to be involved. Fourth, I think this, among other reasons, is why Ralph won't allow it. However, I could (and hopefully) be wrong.
thewildrabbit Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 You can argue Cribbs merits all you want. The fact is the Wall is for former Bills that hold a special place in Fans hearts. Cribbs tore that heart out of the fans & shredded it. He will never be on the wall. You could almost say the same thing about Bruce Smith,when his first contact was up he was offered mega bucks by Denver and 2 first round draft picks to the Bills for compensation. The Bills were hedging on paying Smith top dollar (RW) and Polian convinced him (RW) to pay Bruce. Smith at the time stated he would love to go play for the Bronco's with John Elway in Denver, it almost happened. During the off season, Bruce Smith was a restricted free agent, as his contract ran out after the '88 season. The Denver Broncos made Smith and offer of $7.5 million over five years, which Bruce signed immediately. The Bills had one week to match the offer or lose Bruce to the Broncos for a pair of first round draft picks. Bruce had turned down a contract offer from the Bills for $1 million a year. Bruce was still angry over the prior season and said it would be wise for the Bills not to match Denver's offer and let him go. The Bills matched the offer and Bruce Smith was staying. http://www.geocities.com/bflobuzrd_2000/bruce.html Face it, if not for Bill Polian the 90's Bills would have never ever gone anywhere.RW didn't want to sign Kelly and pay him, again Polian talks him into it. If left to his own devices Ralph Wilson would have screwed the team over and over to save money.(sound Familiar?) I don't dislike Cribbs because he left, I don't blame him at all.
VABills Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 How can we EVER talk about adding any other running back before Cookie Gilchrist? Haven't you read the last three pages. Cribbs was the greatest back of all time. Cookie sucked because the kids around here never saw him, so whatever he did doesn't count.
Lurker Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 well said. still my favorite bill of all-time. He was a special back. Those that don't believe, don't know much about football, or havent really seen him play Has anyone said he wasn't good? The discussion was on if he was WOF-worthy.
thewildrabbit Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 The reality is Cribbs was a great back for 3 years in the NFL, which just isn't enough for HoF-WoF
tennesseeboy Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 from Wikipedia Gilchrist then joined the roster of the Buffalo Bills of the fledgling American Football League. Incidentally, Gilchrist was Buffalo's backup plan: they had actually drafted Ernie Davis to be the team's franchise running back in 1962, but Davis instead chose the NFL and furthermore died of leukemia before ever playing a down of pro football, and the Bills instead signed Gilchrist as a free agent. While with Buffalo, Gilchrist played fullback and kicked, though he insisted he could have played both ways. He was the first 1000-yard American Football League rusher, with 1,096 in a 14-game schedule in 1962. That year he set the all-time AFL record for touchdowns with 13, and earned AFL MVP honors. Gilchrist rushed for a professional football record 243 yards and five touchdowns in a single game against the New York Jets in 1963. Though he was only with the Bills for three years (1962-1964), he remains the team's fifth leading rusher all-time, and led the league in scoring in each of his three years as a Bill. Gilchrist was legendary as a pass defense blocker. Cookies' teamwork and willingness to "step up" and block for quarterbacks was a key part of his Bills contributions, and made the Bills offense of the era a unique challenge to defend. Gilchrist ran for 122 yards in the Bills' 1964 American Football League championship defeat of the San Diego Chargers, 20-7. His 4.5 yd/rush average is second as a Bill only to O.J. Simpson. Cribbs was nothing compared to Cookie. And Cookie was perhaps the greatest pass blocking fullback that ever lived.
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