Solomon Grundy Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 He was a hell of a RB for the Bills and one of the best when he played!!
Flbillsfan#1 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 He was a hell of a RB for the Bills and one of the best when he played!! Joe Cribbs is not on the Wall for the same reason Lou Saban isn't...............he deserted the team.
John Adams Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 He was a hell of a RB for the Bills and one of the best when he played!! Your answer: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CribJo00.htm
K-9 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Does the term "turncoat motherfu*ker" mean anything to you? GO BILLS!!!
Buftex Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Because it's not the "Wall of the Very Good" Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. People who look solely at stats to judge a player aren't getting the whole picture. The way Cribbs was handled in Buffalo (in fact the way the whole squad was handled) by the owner in the early 1980's is a big part of the reason that many who have been around a little longer weren't losing any sleep at the prospect of Mr Wilson not making it to the Hall Of Fame. Those were the best teams the Bills had since the AFL Championship days, but the owner pretty much alienated everyone involved. People remember Cribbs taking his services to the USFL, but he only did it, after fulfilling his contractal obligation to the Bills (playing his ass off his entire lame duck season), because he could. He was talanted enough to have that option. Guys like Smerlas and Haslett pissed and moaned about their salaries constantly, but people forget that. Cribbs went to the USFL, played three pro football seasons in two, led the USFL in rushing, and then, when the USFL folded, had to return to the Bills, if he wanted to play. He was beat up at that point, but played hard, the limited amount of time he was given the field. Cribbs was sort of a pre-curser to guys like Thurman, a great combination of speed, strenghth, football intelligence... beyond being a hell of a runner, he was a great receiver too, in an era where pass catching RB's wasn't very common. Cribbs won't go on the Wall of Fame, because you can't put everyone there, and, because as great as he was, he didn't play long enough for the Bills to belong there...but make no mistake, he was a great running back, not just good...
bdelma Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. People who look solely at stats to judge a player aren't getting the whole picture. The way Cribbs was handled in Buffalo (in fact the way the whole squad was handled) by the owner in the early 1980's is a big part of the reason that many who have been around a little longer weren't losing any sleep at the prospect of Mr Wilson not making it to the Hall Of Fame. Those were the best teams the Bills had since the AFL Championship days, but the owner pretty much alienated everyone involved. People remember Cribbs taking his services to the USFL, but he only did it, after fulfilling his contractal obligation to the Bills (playing his ass off his entire lame duck season), because he could. He was talanted enough to have that option. Guys like Smerlas and Haslett pissed and moaned about their salaries constantly, but people forget that. Cribbs went to the USFL, played three pro football seasons in two, led the USFL in rushing, and then, when the USFL folded, had to return to the Bills, if he wanted to play. He was beat up at that point, but played hard, the limited amount of time he was given the field. Cribbs was sort of a pre-curser to guys like Thurman, a great combination of speed, strenghth, football intelligence... beyond being a hell of a runner, he was a great receiver too, in an era where pass catching RB's wasn't very common. Cribbs won't go on the Wall of Fame, because you can't put everyone there, and, because as great as he was, he didn't play long enough for the Bills to belong there...but make no mistake, he was a great running back, not just good... Cribbs could do all. Too bad the Bills Boned him
Lurker Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. Respectfully disagree...
Buftex Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Respectfully disagree... Actually, I was almost going to say he was better than Thurman... but I didn't want to go that far with things. I think people forget how amazing Cribbs was. If the team had ever won anything in his time, I think he would be held in higher regard by Bills fans... he was really a great football player, who did most everything very well, like Thurman. His yardage came in a more traditional offensive set, which makes what he did all the more impressive to me... Jump to the 5:57 mark, for a little taste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBETnH4rB_Y
John Adams Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Respectfully disagree... I disrespectfully disagree. He's on crack. Cribbs http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CribJo00.htm Thurman http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomTh00.htm Get a grip man. Cribbs was a nice player in a short career.
Lurker Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Actually, I was almost going to say he was better than Thurman... but I didn't want to go that far with things. I think people forget how amazing Cribbs was. If the team had ever won anything in his time, I think he would be held in higher regard by Bills fans... he was really a great football player, who did most everything very well, like Thurman. His yardage came in a more traditional offensive set, which makes what he did all the more impressive to me... Very good, but an order of magnitude behind TT, IMO. Thurmal led the league multiple times in yardage, while in Cribbs' best year (1981) he ranked only 8th among RBs. The 'glory years' talent that TT played with was a big factor, but a strong argument can be made that he carried the team on his back through much of that era. Yards from scrimage rank (just one of many metrics, but telling nevertheless): Cribbs: 1980: 6th 1981: 8th 1982: 16th 1983: 6th 1984: -- 1985: 82nd Thurman: 1988: 31st 1989: 1st 1990: 1st 1991: 3rd 1992: 1st 1993: 2nd 1994: 8th 1995: 25th 1996: 14th 1997: 41st 1998: 71st 1999: 147th Another factoid: Cribbs had 44 career fumbles in 64 games as a Bill (versus TT's 49 in 173). BTW, I had season tix throughout both guy's careers, so I'm not just basing my opinion on stats...
Buftex Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I disrespectfully disagree. He's on crack. Cribbs http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CribJo00.htm Thurman http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomTh00.htm Get a grip man. Cribbs was a nice player in a short career. Like I pointed out, his career was too short to surpass Thurman, but while playing for the Bills, in his first stint, he was terrific. Cribbs was in a comparatively conservative offense that ran when it was supposed to run, and passed when it was supposed to pass. I love Thurman, so I don't want to denegrade anything he did, but keep in mind, a lot of his yardage came out of passing fromations.. . when I think of TT I think of him running out of the shotgun, for 12-15 yard gains...it was a different game when Cribbs played.
bbb Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was excellent from 80-83.........My all time favorite team is the 80 Bills and he was a real key to that team. He even played very well in 83 when he already was in lame duck year with the Bills, knowing he'd be playing in the USFL in a few months.
Buftex Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Very good, but an order of magnitude behind TT, IMO. Thurmal led the league multiple times in yardage, while in Cribbs' best year (1981) he ranked only 8th among RBs. The 'glory years' talent that TT played with was a big factor, but a strong argument can be made that he carried the team on his back through much of that era. Yards from scrimage rank (just one of many metrics, but telling nevertheless): Cribbs: 1980: 6th 1981: 8th 1982: 16th 1983: 6th 1984: -- 1985: 82nd Thurman: 1988: 31st 1989: 1st 1990: 1st 1991: 3rd 1992: 1st 1993: 2nd 1994: 8th 1995: 25th 1996: 14th 1997: 41st 1998: 71st 1999: 147th Another factoid: Cribbs had 44 career fumbles in 64 games as a Bill (versus TT's 49 in 173). BTW, I had season tix throughout both guy's careers, so I'm not just basing my opinion on stats... Yes, fumbles were a problem from time to time with JC...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Yes, fumbles were a problem from time to time with JC... Cribbs had a lot of talent, but was something of a head case, which shortened his career. Not that he was alone in being hard to figure out. Those 1980-1982 Bills were great in so many ways, but I have never known a good team to have as many catastrophically flat performances. (Two losses to Baltimore in 1980? Losing at home to Atlanta in 1980 after being up 14-0? Collapsing against the Cowboys in 1981? Losing 24-0 to St Louis in 1981? Crapping out against the Dolphins in the final game of 1981?) I always wondered how that was possible, since Knox was generally such a good coach and motivator. What made the SB Bills different was that they managed to win even when they did not play well, suffering only a few flat stinkers (at NE in 1991, for example). Outside of SBs, of course.... And, as we all can see thanks to the magic of YouTube, the bills would have won that playoff game in SD if one of three things had happened: if they had made that one yard on 3rd down with three minutes to go, or if Mike-Mayer had made the subsequent field goal, or, worst of all, if Charlie Romes had held onto that interception one play before Ron Smith.... Being a Bills fan is such exquisite torture.
VABills Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. Thurman was our best RB, OJ was 2 and Cookie would kick the crap out of you for forgetting him. Cribbs was another in a long like of okay backs like Bell, Harmon, Miller, Henry, Mcgahee who had lots of talent but had numerous flaws, a lot of times with his head.
Big Turk Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Like I pointed out, his career was too short to surpass Thurman, but while playing for the Bills, in his first stint, he was terrific. Cribbs was in a comparatively conservative offense that ran when it was supposed to run, and passed when it was supposed to pass. I love Thurman, so I don't want to denegrade anything he did, but keep in mind, a lot of his yardage came out of passing fromations.. . when I think of TT I think of him running out of the shotgun, for 12-15 yard gains...it was a different game when Cribbs played. If they ran so much, why are his stats so much worse than Thurman's running the ball? No offense, but if Cribbs played today, with his fumbling problems, he would be buried on a depth chart or outright cut...44 fumbles in 64 games is just completely ridiculous...
Buftex Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 If they ran so much, why are his stats so much worse than Thurman's running the ball? No offense, but if Cribbs played today, with his fumbling problems, he would be buried on a depth chart or outright cut...44 fumbles in 64 games is just completely ridiculous... Okay,Cribbs sucked! I get it... the fact that he was one of the early multiple threat running backs in the league, was rookie of the year, was near the top in rushing multiple times, and set then club records for receptions by a running back means nothing... he was no better than Shawn Bryson.... If he had played in Joe Walsh's west coast offense, in his prime, the guy would have been a legend, or at least every bit as highly regarded as Roger Craig. As for the stats being worse than Thurman's, as I said, Thurman got huge chunks of yardage running out of passing situations...how many times did he run the ball up the middle, out of a shotgun formation? I suppose somebody can dig those stats out somewhere, but I would guess it was a significant amount of his yardage. Cribbs didn't have that luxury. Not to mention, Cribbs, like Thurman, was an excellent blocker...and he was a pretty tough kid. Cribbs may not be better than Thurman, but, to lump him in with players like Greg Bell, Harmon, Miller, etc, causes me to question if you ever watched him play, or if you just have a bad memory. Also, note, I said Thurman was #2 in my Bills lifetime (which started in 1972!!!), so I wasn't forgetting Cookie Gilchrist...I just don't like talking about players that I never saw play...and the notion that Thurman was a better running back than OJ Simpson is ludicrous... we may like him better as a human being, but on the field Simpson was perhaps one of the 4 or 5 best running backs in the history of the game... I don't think you could make that same argument, very convincingly, about Thurman.
Big Turk Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Okay,Cribbs sucked! I get it... the fact that he was one of the early multiple threat running backs in the league, was rookie of the year, was near the top in rushing multiple times, and set then club records for receptions by a running back means nothing... he was no better than Shawn Bryson.... If he had played in Joe Walsh's west coast offense, in his prime, the guy would have been a legend, or at least every bit as highly regarded as Roger Craig. As for the stats being worse than Thurman's, as I said, Thurman got huge chunks of yardage running out of passing situations...how many times did he run the ball up the middle, out of a shotgun formation? I suppose somebody can dig those stats out somewhere, but I would guess it was a significant amount of his yardage. Cribbs didn't have that luxury. Not to mention, Cribbs, like Thurman, was an excellent blocker...and he was a pretty tough kid. Cribbs may not be better than Thurman, but, to lump him in with players like Greg Bell, Harmon, Miller, etc, causes me to question if you ever watched him play, or if you just have a bad memory. Also, note, I said Thurman was #2 in my Bills lifetime (which started in 1972!!!), so I wasn't forgetting Cookie Gilchrist...I just don't like talking about players that I never saw play...and the notion that Thurman was a better running back than OJ Simpson is ludicrous... we may like him better as a human being, but on the field Simpson was perhaps one of the 4 or 5 best running backs in the history of the game... I don't think you could make that same argument, very convincingly, about Thurman. I never saw Cribbs play, but I really am shocked about how a running back could fumble 44 times in 64 games. That would simply not be tolerated by any team in today's NFL no matter how talented he was running the ball... I am sure he must have been a pretty good back, but being able to count on him fumbling the ball more than once every 6 quarters is just ridiculous...for his career, Cribbs fumbled 51 times in 102 NFL games, while Thomas fumbled 50 times in 182 games.... Apparently, fumbling by running backs was quite common back in the late 70's and 80's....The all time RB fumbles leaders are Franco Harris(90), Tony Dorsett(90) and Walter Payton(86)....imagine if those guys played in today's NFL but couldn't get their fumbling under control...would they have had the careers they had, or would coaches have benched them for not being able to hold onto the ball? Interesting thoughts on how eras are so different...
Buftex Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I never saw Cribbs play, but I really am shocked about how a running back could fumble 44 times in 64 games. That would simply not be tolerated by any team in today's NFL no matter how talented he was running the ball... I am sure he must have been a pretty good back, but being able to count on him fumbling the ball more than once every 6 quarters is just ridiculous...for his career, Cribbs fumbled 51 times in 102 NFL games, while Thomas fumbled 50 times in 182 games.... Apparently, fumbling by running backs was quite common back in the late 70's and 80's....The all time RB fumbles leaders are Franco Harris(90), Tony Dorsett(90) and Walter Payton(86)....imagine if those guys played in today's NFL but couldn't get their fumbling under control...would they have had the careers they had, or would coaches have benched them for not being able to hold onto the ball? Interesting thoughts on how eras are so different... There was no instant replay back then... the ground could cause a fumble, if nobody saw it!
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