VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 What does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to say that because he's never literally won a game outright, that he is incapable of making a big play to do so for the rest of his career? Um...yes, since he has never won a game outright for the Bills when he was healthy for 5 years, the likelihood that he would have done it had he played last year on his bum knee (assuming he kept his mouth shut and played out the season instead of making his announcement 3 days before the season started) are pretty remote. I know some people still cling to the idea that the Bills screwed Crowell over last year, when that was hardly the case, but let's not rewrite history here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Um...yes, since he has never won a game outright for the Bills when he was healthy for 5 years, the likelihood that he would have done it had he played last year on his bum knee (assuming he kept his mouth shut and played out the season instead of making his announcement 3 days before the season started) are pretty remote. I know some people still cling to the idea that the Bills screwed Crowell over last year, when that was hardly the case, but let's not rewrite history here. Ok then, we agree. Glad you can see things my way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ok then, we agree. Glad you can see things my way! Fine, we agree that the chances that Crowell would have helped the Bills win more games are "pretty remote." You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Fine, we agree that the chances that Crowell would have helped the Bills win more games are "pretty remote." You win. Actually, we agree that you can't predict the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 For all that are happy with a middle of the road defense, I salute you. Even if we make it to the top 5 on offense, we are going no where without a top 10 D to hold us up in some of the important games. Even in our best offensive days, the defense held down many a game to finish it up. Without a strong defense, you end up losing. Case in point: The NE juggernaut that could not do anything but score during the regular season couldn't find the notch in the most important game of the year and ended up with a * and a loss to finish the season. Keep that all in mind before you break your arm patting last years under .500 / couldn't beat a team with a winning record on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Great (and expedient) analysis... For a fossil, you're pretty open minded... I'm a fossil, no doubt about it. But unlike you, I am not stupid and know how to construct an argument. I also know how to say I made a mistake and/or am wrong, when someone destroys my argument. You are either too young or too stupid (or both) to make that admission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'm a fossil, no doubt about it. But unlike you, I am not stupid and know how to construct an argument. I also know how to say I made a mistake and/or am wrong, when someone destroys my argument. You are either too young or too stupid (or both) to make that admission. Dean, don't waste your brain cells. He's a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Actually, we agree that you can't predict the future. Neither can you. But past performance is considered a predictor of the future. Crowell has made few, if any, game-changing plays, and what he has made are on the order of what Ellison has provided. And again, Crowell had a bum knee. He would have contributed even less had he played, and ended-up contributing nothing because he decided he needed to have surgery after delaying it for so long. And that I don't need to predict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 For all that are happy with a middle of the road defense, I salute you. Even if we make it to the top 5 on offense, we are going no where without a top 10 D to hold us up in some of the important games. Even in our best offensive days, the defense held down many a game to finish it up. Without a strong defense, you end up losing. Case in point: The NE juggernaut that could not do anything but score during the regular season couldn't find the notch in the most important game of the year and ended up with a * and a loss to finish the season. Keep that all in mind before you break your arm patting last years under .500 / couldn't beat a team with a winning record on the back. Go back to polishing your Beemer, Skooby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Go back to polishing your Beemer, Skooby. Seems like a valid point & quite the response to the very reasonable argument I have made. In the middle of the road is where road kill lay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Neither can you. But past performance is considered a predictor of the future. Crowell has made few, if any, game-changing plays, and what he has made are on the order of what Ellison has provided. And again, Crowell had a bum knee. He would have contributed even less had he played, and ended-up contributing nothing because he decided he needed to have surgery after delaying it for so long. And that I don't need to predict. You just love these sure fire statements and predictions, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Neither can you. But past performance is considered a predictor of the future. Crowell has made few, if any, game-changing plays, and what he has made are on the order of what Ellison has provided. And again, Crowell had a bum knee. He would have contributed even less had he played, and ended-up contributing nothing because he decided he needed to have surgery after delaying it for so long. And that I don't need to predict. Certainly Crowell couldn't have helped the Bills last year...he was injured. But a healthy Crowell makes more plays than a healthy Ellison. A key tackle on a play that got past Ellison in the 2nd period (for example) could mean the difference between a W and a L. One player certainly can impact the outcome of a game, even if there are no "game changing" plays to point to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You just love these sure fire statements and predictions, don't you? Sure fire statements and predictions don't involve "probably" or "likely." But if you want to hang onto the most infinitesimal hope that Crowell in his damaged state would have helped the Bills win more games last year, but all means, have at it. I'll merely go by what he, and the Bills, accomplished in the 3 years while he was perfectly healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Certainly Crowell couldn't have helped the Bills last year...he was injured. But a healthy Crowell makes more plays than a healthy Ellison. A key tackle on a play that got past Ellison in the 2nd period (for example) could mean the difference between a W and a L. One player certainly can impact the outcome of a game, even if there are no "game changing" plays to point to. Well the fact of the matter is that Crowell was NOT healthy last year. If you want to talk about what a healthy Crowell could have done, I'd instead rather talk about what a healthy Schobel would have done. We could also talk about what Ellison could have done had he been the starter in mini-camps/OTA's, training camp, and pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Seems like a valid point & quite the response to the very reasonable argument I have made. In the middle of the road is where road kill lay. Fair enough. Let me ask you Skoobs, who said they were "happy" with the defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Sure fire statements and predictions don't involve "probably" or "likely." But if you want to hang onto the most infinitesimal hope that Crowell in his damaged state would have helped the Bills win more games last year, but all means, have at it. I'll merely go by what he, and the Bills, accomplished in the 3 years while he was perfectly healthy. Crowell is a better player. He's better against the run, and he's better in almost all game situations than Ellison. He is more stout in the run game. Doesn't that mean our run defense would have been a tad better? He most certainly makes more tackles than Ellison does. Doesn't that mean maybe a few first downs wouldn't have been made and our defense off the field? He doesn't have to literally win a game by making a flashy individual play to have a positive affect on the outcome of the game. He makes more tackles, and makes other people's jobs easier by being better at his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Well the fact of the matter is that Crowell was NOT healthy last year. Agreed. That's what I said. If you want to talk about what a healthy Crowell could have done, I'd instead rather talk about what a healthy Schobel would have done. We could also talk about what Ellison could have done had he been the starter in mini-camps/OTA's, training camp, and pre-season. That's fine, too. You can talk about all those things. A healthy Crowell fits nicely into the "what if" conversations, too. Given that Crowell is no longer with the team, I don't really see the point, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Even if we make it to the top 5 on offense, we are going no where without a top 10 D Really? Every team that goes deep into the playoffs has a top 10 D? Even explosive offensive teams don't go far without a top 10 D? Ever? Care to back that nonsense up with some data, or are you just trying to take some of the fire for Billistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Fair enough. Let me ask you Skoobs, who said they were "happy" with the defense? Well, I guess nobody really did say they were "Happy" per se, my bad. I go back to waxing my rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billistic Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Wow, if you old geezers say you're smarter than me and know about football more than I do...well...I guess that's that... Awwwggghhh...only kidding Gird your loins, if indeed you've any loins... I will pick you twits apart on specific issues. I will not depend on slander or shotgun generalizations. I know Bills football as well as anybody in the world, having experienced it since day one. In terms of NFL football, let's just see who knows what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts