slyng1 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I was reading the following post on the Bleacher Report: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/219198-...ay-out-of-a-job Would be interested in hearing people's view on this. The article/post makes some interesting points but overall tries to re-write history a bit much for my taste. I.e. the "nail in the coffin" against pittsburgh in 2004 is not really accurate. I believe the kick would have put us up by 4pts near the end of the 3rd qtr. Not exactly a nail in anyone's coffin with a full qtr to play and only a 4pt lead... We ended up losing that game by 5... The 2006 example vs. Indy is a decent example (I suppose). That kick would have given the Bills the lead (they were down 17-16 with 6mins left vs. the future super bowl champs) and it was only a 40ish yard attempt. Probably should have hit that one. With respect to the Browns game, our offense could have found a way to get the guy closer in the closing minutes of that game (run-run-run i believe were the final 3 play calls for virtually no gain) and that kick was close to 50yrds in the wind, so it was no gimmee. But that one did hurt... He also neglects to mention the 2007 game vs. Redskins. You remember the game that Joe Gibbs called 2 Time outs in a row to try to ice Lindell? Rian made both of those kicks, the first from 51yards out and the second from 36 after the unsportsmanlike penalty. That kick was to win the game. (as a footnote, he made 5 FG in that game, scoring all but 2 of our points). Or what about last year's game winning field goal against the lowly raiders in game 2 as time was running out? So yeah, you can point to a couple examples where maybe he should have made a kick and he didn't but overall, i'd say the jury is still out on whether Lindell is a "clutch" kicker or not. Thoughts?
K-9 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I think there's a better kicker out there somewhere but Lindell is passable until we find him. Given the often difficult conditions presented at The Ralph, he's done alright. GO BILLS!!!
Cookiemonster Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I think there's a better kicker out there somewhere but Lindell is passable until we find him. Given the often difficult conditions presented at The Ralph, he's done alright. GO BILLS!!! I would agree here, but I do consider him to be one of the weak links.
K-9 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I would agree here, but I do consider him to be one of the weak links. Definately. It's not like you're thinking 'money' every time he takes the field. Haven't felt that since the Christie days. Maybe we should be looking for more Canadian soccer players. GO BILLS!!!
The Senator Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Definately. It's not like you're thinking 'money' every time he takes the field. Haven't felt that since the Christie days. Maybe we should be looking for more Canadian soccer players. GO BILLS!!! I haven't felt it since the Gogolak days! GO BILLSSS!!!!
KD in CA Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I would agree here, but I do consider him to be one of the weak links. Until the Bills show an ability to pass block consistently, run block in short yardage, rush the passer and stop the run and until the coaching staff shows any ability whatsoever to manage a game, I think kicker is a relatively minor concern.
K-9 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I haven't felt it since the Gogolak days! GO BILLSSS!!!! LMAO, Senator! If only there was a Ruth-like "Curse of the Gogolak" on the Giants for stealing him from us. Those bastards! A pox on their house I say. GO BILLS!!!
NyQuil Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I still go back and forth as to if I blame Jauron or Lindell for the MNF debacle.
reddogblitz Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I don't have much confidence in Rian Lindell. Seems like a nice guy. He missed more than the kick at the end of the Clowns game last year that hurt us. But a kicker can make the difference between winning and losing in the NFL. Position is misunderestimated by many fans. What if we had Nick Folk instead? We need somebody like him. I'm disappointed the Bills aren't bringing in some serious replacement contenders for Lindell and letting 'em kick it off to see who's best and stays on the team. If Lindell wins fine. If not, fine.
reddogblitz Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Until the Bills show an ability to pass block consistently, run block in short yardage, rush the passer and stop the run and until the coaching staff shows any ability whatsoever to manage a game, I think kicker is a relatively minor concern. Yeah, let's wait until the Bills can "show an ability to pass block consistently, run block in short yardage, rush the passer and stop the run" and still lose games due to missed FGs and THEN in the next offseason try to get a new kicker. Makes sense to me.
KD in CA Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I don't have much confidence in Rian Lindell. Seems like a nice guy. He missed more than the kick at the end of the Clowns game last year that hurt us. But a kicker can make the difference between winning and losing in the NFL. Position is misunderestimated by many fans. What if we had Nick Folk instead? We need somebody like him. I'm disappointed the Bills aren't bringing in some serious replacement contenders for Lindell and letting 'em kick it off to see who's best and stays on the team. If Lindell wins fine. If not, fine. I think if we had a coaches who didn't kneel on the ball at the 30 yard line with 90 seconds left on a freezing night rather than attempting to get their kicker a little closer, we would be fine with Lindell. Yeah, let's wait until the Bills can "show an ability to pass block consistently, run block in short yardage, rush the passer and stop the run" and still lose games due to missed FGs and THEN in the next offseason try to get a new kicker. Makes sense to me. I'll type slower so you understand.....Lindell is fine and has made his share of big kicks. Kicker is not a major concern for this team given the other issues.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Kicker stats are about the least significant in the game, due to small sample size. Many who are not enamored with Lindell feel that way because he missed 8 FGs last season. But what about the two seasons before last when he missed a combined 5 FGs? Everybody was probably pretty happy with him headed into last year. A kicker's success in one season does not indicate success in the following season, nor does failure indicate failure. If a running back in his prime has two consecutive seasons averaging 4.5 yards per carry, and then drops down to 3.5 the next year it is definitely cause for concern. If a kicker in his prime has two consecutive 90% seasons, and then drops to 80% it shouldn't raise any eyebrows. Why? Because a starting RB carries the ball 300 times a year and a starting kicker takes about 35 FG attempts. Sample size, friends, sample size.
The Senator Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 LMAO, Senator! If only there was a Ruth-like "Curse of the Gogolak" on the Giants for stealing him from us. Those bastards! A pox on their house I say. GO BILLS!!! Uh oh...you may be on to something, K-9...only the 'Curse of the Gogolak' may be on Ralph and the Bills! To this day, Gogolak in still the NYG all-time leading scorer. When did Ralph let him get away? What was the last year the Bills won a league championship? Ralph wasn't financing any failed Broadway musicals back then, was he? REVERSE THE CURSE!!!!!!!!!
Buffal0 Bill5 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 There is just something in my gut that tells me he is going to mis the BIG kicks, and it has been right on some key occasions. Is he a servicable kicker? Yeah. Does he have decent stats? Yeah. Do I trust him? No.
K-9 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Uh oh...you may be on to something, K-9...only the 'Curse of the Gogolak' may be on Ralph and the Bills! To this day, Gogolak in still the NYG all-time leading scorer. When did Ralph let him get away? What was the last year the Bills won a league championship? Ralph wasn't financing any failed Broadway musicals back then, was he? REVERSE THE CURSE!!!!!!!!! Christ! You're absolutely correct. The curse is always on the team that LOSES the player. And I think Ralph had a financial interest in 'Guys and Dolls' come to think of it. We're doomed! Doomed I tell you! But, with all due respect to the Sporting Curse Gods, Ruth was freely SOLD to the Yankees. The Giants, STOLE Gogo while he was STILL UNDER CONTRACT to the Bills. Any chance the curse is removed on a technicality? NO! RW let him get away no matter how you slice it. I'm on my way to bury a Weeny-Whami at the tombstone of Wellington Mara. This crap stops THIS YEAR! GO BILLS!!!
The Senator Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I'm on my way to bury a Weeny-Whami at the tombstone of Wellington Mara. This crap stops THIS YEAR! You're definitely on to something, K-9...that's how the Red Sox finally did it in '04, no? 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS...REVERSE THE CURSE!!!! PosLUSZny!!!!!
billsfan89 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 To me Lindell is nothing to worry about and is by far on the bottom of the list as far as needs/upgrades this team could use. He is a guy who makes the majority of kicks in clutch situations but he does miss sometimes. Yet he gets bonus points because he does fairly well in the bad kicking weather of Buffalo. If we were a Super Bowl caliber team in that upper 10-15% of the NFL I would say we could use a possible upgrade at kicker but for now Lindell is more than good and I am fairly confident in his ability to make big kicks that aren't like around 50 yards going against the wind (Like that Cleveland kick). But a 45 yard kick no wind I am going to feel like we have a greater than 75% chance to win that game.
reddogblitz Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 If we were a Super Bowl caliber team in that upper 10-15% of the NFL I would say we could use a possible upgrade at kicker but for now Lindell is more than good and I am fairly confident in his ability to make big kicks that aren't like around 50 yards going against the wind (Like that Cleveland kick). But a 45 yard kick no wind I am going to feel like we have a greater than 75% chance to win that game. I'm sorry, but this to me smacks of a loser's mentality. We should be trying to improve EVERY position on this team. I'm not saying Lindell's the man or not the man. But I think his performance last year merits a serious look for something better. To say he's "good enough" even though he cost us at least one game last year. He also missed several other big kicks when the game was not on the line. I'm thinkin' he missed a couple against the Jets which was a winnable game. Maybe it's just that I place a higher value on FG kickers than many others on here. You gotta have a really good one to win. I want to win THIS FREAKIN' YEAR !!!
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Maybe it's just that I place a higher value on FG kickers than many others on here. You gotta have a really good one to win. I want to win THIS FREAKIN' YEAR !!! Prove it. Do Superbowl winning teams historically have kickers that are better than the ones on the mediocre teams? If you research and find that Superbowl winning kickers have statistically significantly better numbers than their non-championship couterparts, I will concede your point.
UConn James Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Bobby April, as far as we know, has made zero overtures to Russ et al. to find a replacement. In fact, the only thing April has done is beam that he has Lindell for placement of the ball on kickoffs (Remember how we've had the #1 ST in the league several times recently? Yeah. He's a part of that), and he's not that bad on FGs either. Had some misses last year. It happens. But he's also playing in some nasty conditions. Bring a lot of the warm weather kickers up to B-lo and watch their numbers tank... plus they'd be useless in STs and all the gadget stuff that April likes to do. Bottom line --- if Bobby April is good with Lindell, I'm good with Lindell.
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