john Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 The one thing I keep hoping for, year after year after year, is that our offense will look more like the rest of the teams I watch on tv. We look so vanilla with our routes sometimes that it is just plain boring to watch and I have no doubt that we have become far too predictable and easy to cover. All our receivers seem to run are the 5-10 yard curls and outs, along with the dump off to the running backs (personal favorite of Trent’s last season) and the occasional (very rare last season) fly route mixed in. Am I the only one here who thinks our passing game fits the terms ‘generic’ and ‘boring’ and that it’s been like this for the last 5-6 years? I realize the Bills have struggled with two young QB’s during that time span with Losman first and now Edwards and that young quarterbacks are often the reason for simple routes while they are learning. I just don’t get why it’s so hard to sprinkle in a few different looks that every team in the NFL seems to run with the exception of ours. I’m referring to the quick slant, crossing patterns over the middle, and the 10-20 yard seem routes over the middle. I remember 2 or 3 seasons ago JP hit Roscoe on a quick slant against the Jets that ended up going over 50 yards for a touchdown. Once he caught the ball and got by the cheating safety he was gone. That’s the last time I remember us doing something like that and it was very effective. Anyone have thoughts as to why our passing game is so plain and why we don’t run a variety of routes? Or perhaps it’s that we do run these routes and our quarterbacks are just afraid to throw the ball to a receiver who isn’t ‘wide open’? Anyways, I know this post is all over the place and I apologize for that. I just hope that the passing game is fun and exciting to watch this season and that it if nothing else, we won’t be as boring and predictable. The last time I remember actually enjoying our offense and not cringing every time the QB dropped back to pass was when Moulds and Price both topped 1,000 yards in the same season. Man that was fun to watch!
billsfan89 Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 A generic look may be more conducive to only having 1 legit wide receiver over the past 5 seasons. Hope fully with TO we open up the play book a little more and get Evans and TO better looks. Also keep in mind running good routs isn't always some sort of crazy up and in route. Routes that are run effectively look more exciting than the same routes run by worse players. Just keep in mind the opposite of conservative isn't Stupid.
Rock'em Sock'em Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 I think the offense has improved over the last couple years. The last slant I remember was in 2009 against Cleveland when it bounced off of Evans and was returned for a TD. So that pattern is in the playbook. I'm sure it was called often. I love when Trent checks down because it a.) avoids a sack, and b.) our RBs are very good catching the ball and getting yards on those plays. We need a better TE and more experienced QB before you see the seam routes used often again. Both the play calling and the variations in formations, motion, and blocking schemes have been notably better since Jauron and his staff took over. And they have improved slightly from year to year. I know many may not share that opinion. We'll see how it all comes together this year with an added playmaker at WR and a brand new line. I'd expect a small step backwards in pass protection (because of the line changes) but maybe a surprise step forwards in running due to more advanced blocking schemes that they may be able to pull off.
john Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 I agree with both assessments. Both make a lot of sense. I realize a lot is involved with making a passing game work and that there are a ton of variables that have to be factored into the equation. One thing though that I would like to see more of this season is Trent being a bit more aggressive at times with where he goes with the football. I’m not saying I want him to hold on to the ball for 5 seconds ala JP and get sacked and fumble the ball twice per game. But it would be nice to see him take that extra half a second on a few occasions and not be afraid to try to put the ball in a tight space. Everyone always talks about his accuracy and how good it is. Let’s see him have a bit more confidence in himself this season. Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy and I am behind him 100%. I think I would 2nd guess myself too if I was playing behind a young/patchwork of an offensive line. But at some point you just have to gut it out and sling the ball around.
john Posted July 17, 2009 Author Posted July 17, 2009 Also, I was thinking about this today. I've heard it mentioned on a few occasions that there are certain parallels that exist between the first two years of Drew Brees's carreer and that of Edward's. - Both were labeled as having weak arms and being 'check down' quarter backs. Has any one else heard or thought about this before? Anyone think that is a good/fair comparison between the two? I know that Edwards was rumored to have worked out with Brees sometime during the offseason. I wonder what kind advice Drew gave Edwards? I hope it pays off. We all know how well Brees panned out....
cmjoyce113 Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 "I remember 2 or 3 seasons ago JP hit Roscoe on a quick slant against the Jets that ended up going over 50 yards for a touchdown. Once he caught the ball and got by the cheating safety he was gone. That’s the last time I remember us doing something like that and it was very effective." I remember 2 seasons ago when Trent through a quick slant into the hands of Terrance Newman that lost us the Dallas game so that can go either way. Secondly I feel as though the knock on Trent is that he checks down to much, when you have 1 average receiver as your number 1 guy with a bunch of below average receivers on the field and a very lackluster offensive line (they are all gone with the exception of Walker) you have no choice but to check down. At least Trent knows enough to check down and not get sacked like Losman or pull some sh-- like Rob Johnson use to. It's easy to criticise Trent or the play calling but face it the below average receivers this team has had in the past limits what we can do. When you put TO and Lee together you have a solid 1,2 combo and the rest of the guys all move down a spot on the depth chart. That turns our receiving core into above average talent where everyone playing 1 spot above where the did put us at below average.
DrFishfinder Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 A generic look may be more conducive to only having 1 legit wide receiver over the past 5 seasons. Hope fully with TO we open up the play book a little more and get Evans and TO better looks. Also keep in mind running good routs isn't always some sort of crazy up and in route. Routes that are run effectively look more exciting than the same routes run by worse players. Just keep in mind the opposite of conservative isn't Stupid. What about Snert's vow to "open up the offense"? He didn't say "open up the offense once we get a bunch of bona fide pro bowl receivers".
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 I'm referring to the quick slant, crossing patterns over the middle, and the 10-20 yard seem routes over the middle. This reminded me of the K-gun days with Andre Reed and the quick slants over the middle.... He made his living there. Man that was exciting football. Good to reminisce.....
Coach55 Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 The one thing I keep hoping for, year after year after year, is that our offense will look more like the rest of the teams I watch on tv. We look so vanilla with our routes sometimes that it is just plain boring to watch and I have no doubt that we have become far too predictable and easy to cover. All our receivers seem to run are the 5-10 yard curls and outs, along with the dump off to the running backs (personal favorite of Trent’s last season) and the occasional (very rare last season) fly route mixed in. Am I the only one here who thinks our passing game fits the terms ‘generic’ and ‘boring’ and that it’s been like this for the last 5-6 years? All teams run the same basic patterns. There are only so many types of routes that can be run. If you add too much complexity in the style of route, you won't have time to let it develop. The whole key is how the receiver sells the break. If you run a slant against a zone, you are screwed as the LB's drop right into the throwing lanes. The slant works great against a man, especially as a counter to the blitz, however if the receiver's break isn't good, the slant is easy to cover. One of the major keys for exciting football is how well the QB can read the coverage before the WR makes the break. If a QB can deliver the ball, so as the receiver makes the break the ball is already in route, he will have more separation from the DB and will be able to get more YAC. Good receivers can gain more separation, giving the QB more time. Good QB's can read the defense and do more with less separation. Match a good QB and a good WR and then you are dangerous.
The Big Cat Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 In all honesty, I think you're confusing routes-called with routes thrown to, and your true beef is not with Edwards or the coaches, but with the WR's. The only way I would entertain the reverse would be if you a.) watched every game in person and could say, for certain, what was happening down field AND b.) you know the play calls well enough to know that the QB and WR's anticipated and executed the right routes at the right time. Otherwise, meh. We have a QB who takes the conservative road, but gets the first when needed, provided he's got someone to throw to opposite Evans. In 2008, that person was Josh Reed. When Reed was in the lineup, production was 1000 better. This year that person will be TO. I think if you were to poll 99% of the people who have even an inkling of football knowledge as to who's better TO or Buffalo's Josh Reed, the only respondents voting for Reed would be those who lied about their football knowledge and confused Buffalo WR Josh with Baltimore FS Ed. Getcha popcorn ready.
The Senator Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 The one thing I keep hoping for, year after year after year, is that our offense will look more like the rest of the teams I watch on tv. We look so vanilla with our routes sometimes that it is just plain boring to watch and I have no doubt that we have become far too predictable and easy to cover. All our receivers seem to run are the 5-10 yard curls and outs, along with the dump off to the running backs (personal favorite of Trent’s last season) and the occasional (very rare last season) fly route mixed in. Am I the only one here who thinks our passing game fits the terms ‘generic’ and ‘boring’ and that it’s been like this for the last 5-6 years? I realize the Bills have struggled with two young QB’s during that time span with Losman first and now Edwards and that young quarterbacks are often the reason for simple routes while they are learning. I just don’t get why it’s so hard to sprinkle in a few different looks that every team in the NFL seems to run with the exception of ours. I’m referring to the quick slant, crossing patterns over the middle, and the 10-20 yard seem routes over the middle. I remember 2 or 3 seasons ago JP hit Roscoe on a quick slant against the Jets that ended up going over 50 yards for a touchdown. Once he caught the ball and got by the cheating safety he was gone. That’s the last time I remember us doing something like that and it was very effective. Anyone have thoughts as to why our passing game is so plain and why we don’t run a variety of routes? Or perhaps it’s that we do run these routes and our quarterbacks are just afraid to throw the ball to a receiver who isn’t ‘wide open’? Anyways, I know this post is all over the place and I apologize for that. I just hope that the passing game is fun and exciting to watch this season and that it if nothing else, we won’t be as boring and predictable. The last time I remember actually enjoying our offense and not cringing every time the QB dropped back to pass was when Moulds and Price both topped 1,000 yards in the same season. Man that was fun to watch! Sounds like what you really want is... Mike Leach
GripnRip Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Unless you have unprecedented access to coaches films, you have no idea what routes are being ran on the majority of plays.
todd Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Both the play calling and the variations in formations, motion, and blocking schemes have been notably better since Jauron and his staff took over. And they have improved slightly from year to year. I know many may not share that opinion. I agree 100%. Our problem has been with our big men on both sides of the line and our TEs.
DrFishfinder Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Unless you have unprecedented access to coaches films, you have no idea what routes are being ran on the majority of plays. Don't need to: Evans: Double covered deep Reed: 6 yard Post Parrish: Not visible
offde-fence Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 There have been two Trent Edwards - the sure, confident, rhythmic QB, and the hasty, panicked QB. When he's playing good, he hits the WR's in stride and finds the open guy, and by the end of a drive, defenses are in a bind as to cover the run or the pass, and which guy to cover. Edwards can really spread it around, too. I have no doubt in his capability, and that he's capable of being a franchise, pro-bowl caliber QB. His problem, or flaw, so far, is mental. Sure, those hits and the poor play probably had many contributing factors - line play, play calling, Evans being double covered, etc. But, it was apparent to me last year that Edwards became scared, and was terribly ineffective and panicked, for about a five or six game stretch. If he can get over that mental hurdle - whether it be fear, or actual physical pain, whatever it was, and play consistently as he did the first four or five games, as we've seen him play - when the t.v. announcers are saying what poise he has, how mature a QB he is, how accurate, etc. - then we should have a really fun year ahead for us. Matt Ryan comes to mind, and how he had such a good year last year. It's funny how Mularky was the coordinator. I bring that up because a rookie QB had that exciting type performance the poster here was asking for, and the coordinator he had was one we ran out of town as being lame and predictable. No doubt the RB play had a lot to do with his success - which leads me to add that if our RB's are used to their full, maximized - because we've got three good ones, and a line that looks more ready to run than to sustain pass protection, then play action passes and the passing game in general could be easier. And then there's the no huddle... Looks like there are a multitude of ways to utilize these players this year to make our offense a success, and fun for all of us to watch.
thewildrabbit Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 There have been two Trent Edwards - the sure, confident, rhythmic QB, and the hasty, panicked QB. When he's playing good, he hits the WR's in stride and finds the open guy, and by the end of a drive, defenses are in a bind as to cover the run or the pass, and which guy to cover. Edwards can really spread it around, too. I have no doubt in his capability, and that he's capable of being a franchise, pro-bowl caliber QB. His problem, or flaw, so far, is mental. Sure, those hits and the poor play probably had many contributing factors - line play, play calling, Evans being double covered, etc. But, it was apparent to me last year that Edwards became scared, and was terribly ineffective and panicked, for about a five or six game stretch. If he can get over that mental hurdle - whether it be fear, or actual physical pain, whatever it was, and play consistently as he did the first four or five games, as we've seen him play - when the t.v. announcers are saying what poise he has, how mature a QB he is, how accurate, etc. - then we should have a really fun year ahead for us. Matt Ryan comes to mind, and how he had such a good year last year. It's funny how Mularky was the coordinator. I bring that up because a rookie QB had that exciting type performance the poster here was asking for, and the coordinator he had was one we ran out of town as being lame and predictable. No doubt the RB play had a lot to do with his success - which leads me to add that if our RB's are used to their full, maximized - because we've got three good ones, and a line that looks more ready to run than to sustain pass protection, then play action passes and the passing game in general could be easier. And then there's the no huddle... Looks like there are a multitude of ways to utilize these players this year to make our offense a success, and fun for all of us to watch. That five or six game stretch occurred when Josh Reed was Injured and Edwards virtually had no open targets and yet the OC kept calling shotgun passing plays. I really feel bad for Edwards knowing he has such a tool calling the offensive plays. Granted Schonert seemed to call the worst when JP was under center, but just know with a back up in the game and the opposing team is dropping six+ into coverage and only rushing their front four Schonert still calling nothing but shotgun passing plays. It was almost like he didn't understand the defensive coverages and kept calling pass plays no matter what. If Jauron fails this season it won't be because of the defense, it will be because the offense still lacks a dominate tight end and fullback. It will mean that when the Bills need 2 yards on the ground in the middle of a snowstorm the OC will still be calling passing plays. If he does manage to call a run with a fullback in the game it will more then likely fail because the team was more determined to learn the "no huddle" then basic short yardage schemes. Knowing the meat of the season comes down to who plays the best in November, December and January makes me realize the Bills will not be prepared to run the ball effectively when the snow and wind dictate that they must.
crazyDingo Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 We should try to incorporate Mularkey's "Double-reverse statue-of-Liberty, fake field goal punt" a little more. Get Roscoe open for the 3-yard dump-off.
BillsVet Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 The common denominator, at least since 2006, is DJ. The OC deserves a good share of the blame, but DJ's last three coordinators can all be described as running a vanilla offense. I think much of this stems from DJ's first OC in Chicago-Gary Crowton who put together a pass-happy offense that didn't make Chicago a playoff team. After Crowton left in 2000, DJ has hired John Shoop, Fairchild, and now TS. None of them can be considered up and coming offensive innovators. I don't believe DJ wanted, at least until last season, a high powered offense. We'll see how much latitude he gives TS this season to run an up-tempo offense.
BillnutinHouston Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Unless you have unprecedented access to coaches films, you have no idea what routes are being ran on the majority of plays. Agreed. I'm impressed with how many people here are able to determine the exact routes Bills WRs are running FROM THEIR SEAT ON THE COUCH AT HOME.
zazie Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Also, I was thinking about this today. I've heard it mentioned on a few occasions that there are certain parallels that exist between the first two years of Drew Brees's carreer and that of Edward's. - Both were labeled as having weak arms and being 'check down' quarter backs. Has any one else heard or thought about this before? Anyone think that is a good/fair comparison between the two? I know that Edwards was rumored to have worked out with Brees sometime during the offseason. I wonder what kind advice Drew gave Edwards? I hope it pays off. We all know how well Brees panned out.... The knock on Brees his first couple seasons was not weak arm as much as too short. Never heard he had a weak arm rep until now.
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