/dev/null Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 $23,148,855,308,184,500 and they had the nerve to apply a $15 overdraft fee? Outrageous. To bad it wasn't a cash advance. The sales tax alone could pay for National/Social Medicine and pay off the national debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Are you suggesting that the average American a-hole should be involved in the intricate details of trying to fix the health care system? This is one case where we're probably better off watching American Idol and letting the problem-solvers do their thing. But it's easy to sit back and criticize a complicated solution to a complex problem... Actually the average American should be at the forefront of health care reform. Demand to see the prices of all procedures and the success rates of the available hospital options. People comparison shop and read reviews when buying a stove, but couldn't care less about the price and reliability of their new hip. Don't complain about the cost of health care unless you have done your part and demanded accountability and quality service when scheduling a procedure. We do this for nearly every other industry. Nobody cares about prices because they either have a co-pay or know they will never pay the bill. It's easier to whine and complain that the big bad insurance industry is screwing us over while burying our heads in the sand. Are the insurance providers in need of some serious reform? Absolutely, but we share in the responsibility of changing the health care industry. HSA's could encourage people to evaluate their health care costs too. If it's not an emergency procedure, do your part to fix the health care mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 The sales tax alone could pay for National/Social Medicine and pay off the national debt True, but the socialist, America hating Obama administration would swoop in and try to kill capitalism by saying that banks charge outrageous ATM rates and that it's unfair to charge someone over 23 quadrillion dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 True, but the socialist, America hating Obama administration would swoop in and try to kill capitalism by saying that banks charge outrageous ATM rates and that it's unfair to charge someone over 23 quadrillion dollars. While then taking over the ATM machines, firing the CEOs, putting his name on the bank, taking over the 23 quadrillion dollars, giving it to GM so they can use the money to lobby Democrats, and then stand at a microphone and tell everyone that they're on notice as he explains that he had to do something because the status quo was unacceptable, and doing anything...even something remarkably stupid and damaging...is better than the status quo, and if anyone objects, they'll get the evil eye, a tax audit and a czar appointed to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 While then taking over the ATM machines, firing the CEOs, putting his name on the bank, taking over the 23 quadrillion dollars, giving it to GM so they can use the money to lobby Democrats, and then stand at a microphone and tell everyone that they're on notice as he explains that he had to do something because the status quo was unacceptable, and doing anything...even something remarkably stupid and damaging...is better than the status quo, and if anyone objects, they'll get the evil eye, a tax audit and a czar appointed to them. Oh, well, apparently, you think the status quo of ATMs and banks charging 23 quadrillion dollars is acceptable. Fine. Your an idiot. And your example of giving the money to GM is stoopid because he would never take money from banks and give it to GM, he gives money to banks! Your a double idiot. And he's never going to give money that he (or the taxpayer) has to GM or any other corporation because he only gives away money we don't have, not that we do have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Nancy needs to get a leash on those pesky Blue Dogs... http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-ne...ock-health-bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It depends on your capacity/willingness to understand the details of what they're suggesting. I have and I am, in fact it's part of my job to do it. This plan is blatantly stupid, both in general and in detail. It ignores the major problems, creates new ones we don't need, and fails to attack most of the Obama talking points properly or at all. If you're going to make the effort to criticize, why not go the extra mile and actually reference details of the plan and possible alternatives instead of how many pictures, colors and arrows you see on the computer screen. I can do this in one sentence: This plan is based on the false premise that people shouldn't need to pay more, if they use more, health care, or be accountable for their own behavior, both financially and physically/how they treat their bodies. Assume your body = your house. If you throw knock down, drag out parties at your house every day, and stuff gets broken and the place gets dirty, is it my job to pay for your repairs and cleaning? No, it's your job. Another sentence: This plan does not go after each problem area and in fact ignores a lot of the most egregious issues that cost the MOST money = no viable plan for sustained benefits, no tort reform, no regulation reform, no REAL cost reform, and the creation of another massive government agency. Medicaid spent $400 million on "anti-fraud activity" last year. They did such a good job that there was $38 BILLION in fraud. The size of Obamacare will dwarf Medicaid, but I am sure there won't be any fraud, and I'm sure they won't spend another 2 billion on trying to stop it. Yeah, so we spend huge money on a losing play....it's the "war on drugs" all over again. The more people who understand the proposed solution, the more holes will be poked in it, the better (theoretically) it should be in the end. Discussion based on analysis is a best-case scenario as far as I'm concerned. How in the hell is the "pass healthcare immediately" directive from Obama an example of discussion, or analysis? What holes do you see getting poked in something that, once again, Obama is urging Congress to pass without reading it first? Perhaps you are the one who is watching too much American Idol? Perhaps it's best if you continue doing that instead of voting next time, because clearly you aren't putting very much effort into that, or your posts here either You know what the problem is with health care in this country? The problem is us. Bingo. What this boils down to is: where are the consequences for bad behavior? Answer: there aren't any. When a hardworking single mother who works 3 jobs for minimum wage gets the same health care that a selfish, crack whore mother does, something is clearly wrong with the plan. But none of this is the real issue! Everything you are hearing from both sides is nonsense. Utter nonsense. The fact is: you cannot control costs....which is Obama's supposed premise for this whole thing....unless you: CONTROL COSTS! I can go into extreme detail in each "circle and box and arrow" where costs are created and not controlled. Ask me anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think that a big part of the current problem is that many people have too much health insurance. There are a lot of gold-plated plans that have no deductibles for doctor visits, prescriptions, etc. I have 2 friends that work for local school districts. Neither pays a deductible for prescriptions whether they use brand-name or generic. They have absolutely no incentive to try to cut their prescription costs. My plan has tiers with different co-pays for different kinds of drugs. Whenever I get a script from my doctor I make sure that he writes it for one that is on the $10 for 90 day list at Walmart or Target. This costs my insurance carrier nada. I pay the $10 which pays for the script in full. I think that it's a good idea to have zero deductibles for annual physicals and vaccinations. But if you have a $20 - $30 deductible for a doctor visit, maybe you'll think twice before going to a doctor and getting an MRI because your nose is stuffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 One way to fix health care in one day would be to let all of the drug abusers and small time dealers out of prison and instead lock up all the hypochondriacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have and I am, in fact it's part of my job to do it. This plan is blatantly stupid, both in general and in detail. It ignores the major problems, creates new ones we don't need, and fails to attack most of the Obama talking points properly or at all. I can do this in one sentence: This plan is based on the false premise that people shouldn't need to pay more, if they use more, health care, or be accountable for their own behavior, both financially and physically/how they treat their bodies. Assume your body = your house. If you throw knock down, drag out parties at your house every day, and stuff gets broken and the place gets dirty, is it my job to pay for your repairs and cleaning? No, it's your job. Another sentence: This plan does not go after each problem area and in fact ignores a lot of the most egregious issues that cost the MOST money = no viable plan for sustained benefits, no tort reform, no regulation reform, no REAL cost reform, and the creation of another massive government agency. Medicaid spent $400 million on "anti-fraud activity" last year. They did such a good job that there was $38 BILLION in fraud. The size of Obamacare will dwarf Medicaid, but I am sure there won't be any fraud, and I'm sure they won't spend another 2 billion on trying to stop it. Yeah, so we spend huge money on a losing play....it's the "war on drugs" all over again. How in the hell is the "pass healthcare immediately" directive from Obama an example of discussion, or analysis? What holes do you see getting poked in something that, once again, Obama is urging Congress to pass without reading it first? Perhaps you are the one who is watching too much American Idol? Perhaps it's best if you continue doing that instead of voting next time, because clearly you aren't putting very much effort into that, or your posts here either Bingo. What this boils down to is: where are the consequences for bad behavior? Answer: there aren't any. When a hardworking single mother who works 3 jobs for minimum wage gets the same health care that a selfish, crack whore mother does, something is clearly wrong with the plan. But none of this is the real issue! Everything you are hearing from both sides is nonsense. Utter nonsense. The fact is: you cannot control costs....which is Obama's supposed premise for this whole thing....unless you: CONTROL COSTS! I can go into extreme detail in each "circle and box and arrow" where costs are created and not controlled. Ask me anything. Why would people getting health coverage lead to more people treating their health like crap. I don't care how much coverage you get having diabetes or a crack addition isn't going to be a good thing. People are lazy thats why they don't take care of them selves. What makes you accountable for your own body is that if you treat it terribly it will break down and health coverage isn't going to fix that and if you think things like heart attacks and diabetes are going to go away with health insurance coverage than you have bigger issues than being uninsured. I don't doubt some of your points like why is Obama having such a sense of urgency when it comes to reform. But that one point about universal health coverage leading to people not caring about their health is specious logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Saying health care isn't an entitlement is like saying police protection isn't an entitlement. Try suing your police department for not protecting you and find out just how "entitled" you are. I don't disagree with the rest of your post but I also don't know the answer to the problem, other than it isn't a gigantic government program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Saying health care isn't an entitlement is like saying police protection isn't an entitlement. Police protection isn't an entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Police protection isn't an entitlement. See? He was right! Especially lately, I have seen a lot of people use that word in the broad sense rather than its actual meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 See? He was right! Especially lately, I have seen a lot of people use that word in the broad sense rather than its actual meaning. Misusing "entitlement" is an entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Try suing your police department for not protecting you and find out just how "entitled" you are. I don't disagree with the rest of your post but I also don't know the answer to the problem, other than it isn't a gigantic government program. Entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits because of rights or by agreement through law As a citizen you are entitled by the social contract you have with your government to have the police serve and protect you as best as they can. You can sue a police department it happens all the time (Mostly in police brutality cases but there have been cases where people have sued police departments for ignoring a victim of a crime granted its hard to do but it has been done) I feel if we trust our own government with nuclear weapons and to put up the worlds best defense apparatus than I think they can run a hospital system. If you harness the amount of money companies and individuals pay on private insurance and put that into a public plan for good coverage for everyone I think it on paper could work. Also as I have said already we pay up the nose for a system that is already 39-57% funded by public money. So why not just pick up the rest of the tab and have a better simpler system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I have and I am, in fact it's part of my job to do it. This plan is blatantly stupid, both in general and in detail. It ignores the major problems, creates new ones we don't need, and fails to attack most of the Obama talking points properly or at all. ... Oh, Jesus, I have a stalker. Thanks for your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits because of rights or by agreement through law As a citizen you are entitled by the social contract you have with your government to have the police serve and protect you as best as they can. You can sue a police department it happens all the time (Mostly in police brutality cases but there have been cases where people have sued police departments for ignoring a victim of a crime granted its hard to do but it has been done) I feel if we trust our own government with nuclear weapons and to put up the worlds best defense apparatus than I think they can run a hospital system. If you harness the amount of money companies and individuals pay on private insurance and put that into a public plan for good coverage for everyone I think it on paper could work. Also as I have said already we pay up the nose for a system that is already 39-57% funded by public money. So why not just pick up the rest of the tab and have a better simpler system. By your own definition, before there is a universal health plan, I could sue the government for not providing one because it's an entitlement by social contract that they will keep me healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I really want to know what this plan is going to cover. Could you imagine if it covered things like rehab? And with the bleeding hearts introducing this I'll be suprised if it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 By your own definition, before there is a universal health plan, I could sue the government for not providing one because it's an entitlement by social contract that they will keep me healthy? Thats jumping to a conclusion isn't it. Saying your government should do something to make a better health care system is wanting your government to do its job and look out for the best interests of its people. Also your government does fund 39-57% of the current system and the government will pay for your emergency room visits and for some people they have Medicare. So they are trying to do their part in keeping you healthy its just that they aren't doing a very good job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Also your government does fund 39-57% of the current system and the government will pay for your emergency room visits and for some people they have Medicare. So they are trying to do their part in keeping you healthy its just that they aren't doing a very good job of it. They're not doing a very good job of it, so lets give them a bigger job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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