Fingon Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Demo...Health-Plan.pdf Nope, not complicated at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Demo...Health-Plan.pdf Nope, not complicated at all. Why would you expect the solution to a complicated problem to be simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Why would you expect the solution to a complicated problem to be simple? Well, since every Democrat has been touting the simplicity of single payer, you would think it wouldn't be more complicated than what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Why would you expect the solution to a complicated problem to be simple? Because the geniuses suggesting it are touting it as "reducing costs", which never coincides with increasing complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, since every Democrat has been touting the simplicity of single payer, you would think it wouldn't be more complicated than what we have now. But single payer is so much simpler. Let somebody else worry about my complicated problems so I can spend more time worrying about important stuff like who to vote for American Idol or who killed Michael Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 But single payer is so much simpler. Let somebody else worry about my complicated problems so I can spend more time worrying about important stuff like who to vote for American Idol or who killed Michael Jackson Are you suggesting that the average American a-hole should be involved in the intricate details of trying to fix the health care system? This is one case where we're probably better off watching American Idol and letting the problem-solvers do their thing. But it's easy to sit back and criticize a complicated solution to a complex problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Are you suggesting that the average American a-hole should be involved in the intricate details of trying to fix the health care system? This is one case where we're probably better off watching American Idol and letting the problem-solvers do their thing. But it's easy to sit back and criticize a complicated solution to a complex problem... So you'd rather sit back and say "whatever you do, works for me."? You put a lot of faith in those bozos in congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 So you'd rather sit back and say "whatever you do, works for me."? You put a lot of faith in those bozos in congress. It depends on your capacity/willingness to understand the details of what they're suggesting. This thread was started by a poster who probably glanced at a flowchart and rushed to post a link to show how fancy and "complicated" it looked at first glance, a subjective opinion to say the least. If you're going to make the effort to criticize, why not go the extra mile and actually reference details of the plan and possible alternatives instead of how many pictures, colors and arrows you see on the computer screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 It depends on your capacity/willingness to understand the details of what they're suggesting. Have you not been paying attention? Take your age and deduct, let's say 18 years, and that should be how many years you've been aware of how messed up politicians are and how many things they've touched have become expensive boondoggles. I agree with LA, the speed with which they want to get this done has me very concerned and very worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Have you not been paying attention? Take your age and deduct, let's say 18 years, and that should be how many years you've been aware of how messed up politicians are and how many things they've touched have become expensive boondoggles. I agree with LA, the speed with which they want to get this done has me very concerned and very worried. Fair enough. No reason to judge the proposed system on anything other than it own merits, though. The more people who understand the proposed solution, the more holes will be poked in it, the better (theoretically) it should be in the end. Discussion based on analysis is a best-case scenario as far as I'm concerned. Get after it if you're worried. Most of the rest of us will be paying more attention to American Idol unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Fair enough. No reason to judge the proposed system on anything other than it own merits, though. The more people who understand the proposed solution, the more holes will be poked in it, the better (theoretically) it should be in the end. Discussion based on analysis is a best-case scenario as far as I'm concerned. Get after it if you're worried. Most of the rest of us will be paying more attention to American Idol unfortunately. Part of the problem with that is that, as people poke holes in it, those holes will be patched...and again, we get to the "too much complexity" problem. The simple fact that will HAVE to be accepted for any workable system is that a certain level and/or amount of sub-standard care is unavoidable. You simply can't give everyone everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 You simply can't give everyone everything. Yes, but if you give EVERYONE mediocre care, then NO ONE has mediocre care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It DOES scare me. We have completely forgotten that health care isn't an entitlement. You know what the problem is with health care in this country? The problem is us. If we were really concerned about our health, we'd stop eating fried foods and eating too many of them. We would stop guzziling so much soda and alcohol, and drink water and other healthy drinks. We would quit puffing cigarettes, and we should at $4.50 a pack. We would quit doing dope and other drugs. We would quit having unprotected sex and bringing unwanted babies into the world. We would quit having unprotected sex while contracting deadly diseases, and blaming the world for not finding an instant cure, so we can go back to having unprotected sex with whomever the hell we wanted. Should I go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It DOES scare me. We have completely forgotten that health care isn't an entitlement. You know what the problem is with health care in this country? The problem is us. If we were really concerned about our health, we'd stop eating fried foods and eating too many of them. We would stop guzziling so much soda and alcohol, and drink water and other healthy drinks. We would quit puffing cigarettes, and we should at $4.50 a pack. We would quit doing dope and other drugs. We would quit having unprotected sex and bringing unwanted babies into the world. We would quit having unprotected sex while contracting deadly diseases, and blaming the world for not finding an instant cure, so we can go back to having unprotected sex with whomever the hell we wanted. Should I go on? Dear sir, Democrats now control the country. Personal accountability is no longer required. Please get in line for your entitlement. Respectfully, American's Clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaDarin_Has_AIDS Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Dear sir, Democrats now control the country. Personal accountability is no longer required. Please get in line for your entitlement. Respectfully, American's Clueless. CHECK IT That Thomas Paine video in your sig is awesome! If you haven't already you should check out Glenn Beck's updated version of Paine's Common Sense. It's really good, I bet you'd like it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-327hTpPK0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It DOES scare me. We have completely forgotten that health care isn't an entitlement. You know what the problem is with health care in this country? The problem is us. If we were really concerned about our health, we'd stop eating fried foods and eating too many of them. We would stop guzziling so much soda and alcohol, and drink water and other healthy drinks. We would quit puffing cigarettes, and we should at $4.50 a pack. We would quit doing dope and other drugs. We would quit having unprotected sex and bringing unwanted babies into the world. We would quit having unprotected sex while contracting deadly diseases, and blaming the world for not finding an instant cure, so we can go back to having unprotected sex with whomever the hell we wanted. Should I go on? I know you were trying to say it, but that 50M or so who are currently uninsured are the worst abusers of the above. Estimating costs at $1T doesn't even come close to what it will actually end up costing us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Part of the problem is that people smoke too much, but I think that is about to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It DOES scare me. We have completely forgotten that health care isn't an entitlement. You know what the problem is with health care in this country? The problem is us. If we were really concerned about our health, we'd stop eating fried foods and eating too many of them. We would stop guzziling so much soda and alcohol, and drink water and other healthy drinks. We would quit puffing cigarettes, and we should at $4.50 a pack. We would quit doing dope and other drugs. We would quit having unprotected sex and bringing unwanted babies into the world. We would quit having unprotected sex while contracting deadly diseases, and blaming the world for not finding an instant cure, so we can go back to having unprotected sex with whomever the hell we wanted. Should I go on? Saying health care isn't an entitlement is like saying police protection isn't an entitlement. Private insurance and health care is an intrinsic conflict of interest. A insurance company benefits from finding a way to not treat you. Saying competition between companies leads to having a good system might be true on paper but it hasn't worked out for a lot of Americans. Taking care of your health is one of the most important things you need in your life. Its also possible in a nationalized system to give people incentives to stay healthy. Its possible to lower single payer rates on non-smokers and people who maintain personal health. As for nationalized systems don't work look at Canada they wait on lines for hours to get treatment. We are America why can't we have a great system for everyone or at least a good system for all. Why are the only options a good system for some or a bad system for everyone? Another thing to keep in mind is that estimates place 39 to 57% of our heath care costs are already being paid publicly so we already are picking up the tab on a huge chunk of the cost in the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 $23,148,855,308,184,500 and they had the nerve to apply a $15 overdraft fee? Outrageous. To bad it wasn't a cash advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 $23,148,855,308,184,500 and they had the nerve to apply a $15 overdraft fee? Outrageous. To bad it wasn't a cash advance. That made me laugh, too. I was at a bar in Santa Monica once and bought myself and the girl I was with a quick drink. It came to $30.50. I was, like, okay, I can sorta deal with the 15 bucks a pop for a lousy drink, but I was pissed about that extra quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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