Green Chutes and Pink Farts

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So don't rush the process. When you force the development of a product, any product, into an unrealistic deadline, your end result is ultimately crap. Especially when you have a bunch of petty, greedy, hypocritical douchebags trying to make the product.

 

Take your time. Do it right. !@#$ the deadline. Anything else is irresponsible.

 

Health Care Vista

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

How to fix the healthcare "crisis" in three easy steps:

 

1) Stop mandating that hospitals treat people regardless of insurance coverage. When someone can just walk into a hospital and be treated with NO expectation of payment, it raises the cost for everybody who deos pay.

 

2) Control liability expenses for doctors. Malpractice suits are not the answer.

 

3) Reform Medicare. Medicare is the single biggest boondoggle in the history of the United States of America. There is NO way that a senior's health insurance should cost in the neighborhood of $300 a month (medicare premiums and supplement premiums) and cover all that it covers. No way. Not when a healthy young person will pay hundreds MORE per month than that, when all the risk tables show that the young person is far less likely to use healthcare.

[Kelly the Dog]

So don't rush the process. When you force the development of a product, any product, into an unrealistic deadline, your end result is ultimately crap. Especially when you have a bunch of petty, greedy, hypocritical douchebags trying to make the product.

 

Take your time. Do it right. !@#$ the deadline. Anything else is irresponsible.

 

I'm saying they know most everything they need to know. Waiting isn't going to help. There isn't anything more they have to learn, or work on or argue, they have been looking into this and working on this and arguing this forever. What needs to be done is to just put aside their pettiness and partisanship and decide.

[IDBillzFan]

I'm saying they know most everything they need to know. Waiting isn't going to help. There isn't anything more they have to learn, or work on or argue, they have been looking into this and working on this and arguing this forever. What needs to be done is to just put aside their pettiness and partisanship and decide.

And I'm saying they don't know everything the need to know because the FIRST thing they need to know is that they must put aside their pettiness and partisanship if they hope to create a plan that won't saddle the people they serve with the wrong product...all because they want to meet an unrealistic deadline (based, in part, on the components in place to create the product) before the polls start dropping some more.

 

My broader opinion on this, which I've expressed to you before, is this: simply doing SOMETHING based on the argument that the status quo isn't working doesn't mean that the SOMETHING you're doing is the right thing to do. In fact, everyone with a voice is shouting that the plan approved today is an absolutely embarrassing plan that does nothing to reform health care. But hey...they approved something, so we should all be encouraged.

[Kelly the Dog]

And I'm saying they don't know everything the need to know because the FIRST thing they need to know is that they must put aside their pettiness and partisanship if they hope to create a plan that won't saddle the people they serve with the wrong product...all because they want to meet an unrealistic deadline (based, in part, on the components in place to create the product) before the polls start dropping some more.

And waiting is going to stop that? Sorry, it's time to crap or get off the crapper. Not to mention that this isnt something that was just dropped on them, the august time period and vote in the fall has been talked about for a long time, since the inauguration.

My broader opinion on this, which I've expressed to you before, is this: simply doing SOMETHING based on the argument that the status quo isn't working doesn't mean that the SOMETHING you're doing is the right thing to do. In fact, everyone with a voice is shouting that the plan approved today is an absolutely embarrassing plan that does nothing to reform health care. But hey...they approved something, so we should all be encouraged.

Who is everyone? Are you talking about the rather decent Senate plan that was agreed to today or the somewhat crappy House plan that was agreed to yesterday?

[IDBillzFan]

Sorry, it's time to crap or get off the crapper.

Dear America, we're sorry we delivered you a piece of garbage health care plan that has no hope of fixing the health care problem and your grandchildren will be paying for for years on end, but hey...it was time to either crap or get off the crapper, and even though we know what needs to be done, we opted not to do it because we're too !@#$ing stupid to get out of our own way.

 

Who is everyone? Are you talking about the rather decent Senate plan that was agreed to today or the somewhat crappy House plan that was agreed to yesterday?

The crappy House plan. The one the CBO is pissing all over. The one that taxes people again. And again. And again. Because when all else fails, throw money at a problem, and when you don't have money, go get it from the people who have it because...y'know...it's just a drop in the bucket to them.

[Magox]

What is the white house going to do, when their rose colored expectations of the economy come up short? They are projecting a 4%+ GDP over the next 3 years, and if it comes in at just 2%, that will represent a 700 Billion dollar shortfall per year, which of course will be added onto the deficit, but hey, who cares? By then Health Care reform will have been passed, so will cap-and-trade and yet another ineffective Stimulus Bill, because if we don't, well you fill in the blank.....

 

There are only two ways to cut the deficit folks, and that is generate more revenues and or cut spending, and we know that a cut in spending is out of the equation, and when they figure out that they won't be able to generate enough revenues through the current tax plans, guess what they will do?

[Kelly the Dog]

The crappy House plan. The one the CBO is pissing all over. The one that taxes people again. And again. And again. Because when all else fails, throw money at a problem, and when you don't have money, go get it from the people who have it because...y'know...it's just a drop in the bucket to them.

The CBO? That's a laugh. You're going to sit there with a straight face and agree with the CBO on how much a health care plan costs and how many people it's going to cover and where they are going to get the money for it and whether or not something like a government plan is going to be good or not. Seriously?

[IDBillzFan]

The CBO? That's a laugh. You're going to sit there with a straight face and agree with the CBO on how much a health care plan costs and how many people it's going to cover and where they are going to get the money for it and whether or not something like a government plan is going to be good or not. Seriously?

And there you go again, ignoring the entire point about taxes and taxes and more taxes in the deep end of a recession, and laughing at the little bunch of morons who disagree with your line of thinking. Do you get extra votes for being so blindly loyal to the ridiculous attempts of this administration to stranglehold the small businesses in this world for the sake of "doing anything that isn't the status quo"?

 

But no. Let's change the focus and laugh at the CBO. Ok. You're right. The CBO is full of crap. They're a joke. They're laughable.

 

Hey. I was thinking. You know who we should listen to? The Obama Administration. Because they seem to be spending like they understand what's happening. More taxes. More spending. That's the way out of this recession.

 

Unless, of course, they miscalculate. But they'd never do that, right? The administration was nuts on accurate that the stimulus would halt unemployment at 8% this year. They knew the only way to save the world was by tossing money at grape genetics and marsh mice. Man, they nailed that. Except, y'know, for the whole "Gee, we were TOTALLY wrong about the stimulus thing, so we're changing out tune and unemployment will probably hit 10% and this will take years, not months, but thanks for panicking with us. It was loads of fun spending your cash on special interests. Enjoy those big tax breaks.

 

But the CBO. There's a laugh. Those dudes don't know anything. In fact, you know what they need? A CBO Czar. That'll fix things.

 

This ride is almost over. Laugh while you can.

[Kelly the Dog]

And there you go again, ignoring the entire point about taxes and taxes and more taxes in the deep end of a recession, and laughing at the little bunch of morons who disagree with your line of thinking. Do you get extra votes for being so blindly loyal to the ridiculous attempts of this administration to stranglehold the small businesses in this world for the sake of "doing anything that isn't the status quo"?

 

But no. Let's change the focus and laugh at the CBO. Ok. You're right. The CBO is full of crap. They're a joke. They're laughable.

 

Hey. I was thinking. You know who we should listen to? The Obama Administration. Because they seem to be spending like they understand what's happening. More taxes. More spending. That's the way out of this recession.

 

Unless, of course, they miscalculate. But they'd never do that, right? The administration was nuts on accurate that the stimulus would halt unemployment at 8% this year. They knew the only way to save the world was by tossing money at grape genetics and marsh mice. Man, they nailed that. Except, y'know, for the whole "Gee, we were TOTALLY wrong about the stimulus thing, so we're changing out tune and unemployment will probably hit 10% and this will take years, not months, but thanks for panicking with us. It was loads of fun spending your cash on special interests. Enjoy those big tax breaks.

 

But the CBO. There's a laugh. Those dudes don't know anything. In fact, you know what they need? A CBO Czar. That'll fix things.

 

This ride is almost over. Laugh while you can.

Actually I was laughing because I was joking. I trust the CBO and its numbers, and I wasn't ignoring the taxes issue at all because I don't happen to believe they will be part of the plan that is passed. They are not part of the Senate plan as of now which is 600 billion (according to the CBO) and paid for in different ways, without extra taxes. There are also going to be approximately seven plans, which will be melded into one that is brought to the Prez. The Senate doesn't think it will have raising taxes in the final plan, said as much yesterday, and, again, right now, I don't believe it will either.

 

The CBO also says the public plan will be about 150 billion savings.

 

If the final health care plan does have the tax on the rich, I think it will be a mistake. But I will criticize it if it happens, and as of right now it doesnt look like it will happen.

 

The misreading or miscalculation is fairly laughable, too. It doesn't make one bit of difference what the real numbers were versus what they projected them to be. At the time, they didn't have the figures for the first quarter of the year which ended up being WAY worse than most people expected. BUT THE FACT is, the problem is the same, the stimulus would have been the same, the way they handled it would have been the same, and the result, good or bad, is going to be the same.

 

So what REAL difference does it make that they THOUGHT and SAID the unemployment was going to be 8% but instead it is closer to 10%. None. Zero. The same number of people are out of work whether they said 8 or 10. One might say that they may have done things differently if they thought it was going to be worse than 8, but you know what they would have done differently? Probably a bigger stimulus. You should be dancing in the streets that they "misread" how many people were going to be unemployed.

 

But again, you know as well as me they would have done the exact same thing either way, and you know it really doesn't matter and it really had nothing to do with them. The unemployment problem was going to be almost 10% right now regardless of anything they did, good or bad, what you felt was right or what I felt was right or what someone else did.

 

And you know what, all they have done so far is lower taxes. A lot of them. There is not going to be any higher taxes in the near future either, for anyone. By the time the taxes on the upper 1-2% are raised, they will be the same thing Obama has been saying since he announced his candidacy, back to the Clinton years numbers. You know what the highest tax rates were in the biggest expansions in US history? 91% The taxes he is going to raise will still end up being historically low for the country. So no, I am not really worried about taxesw right now. The lower and middle classes are paying less of them.

 

And the ride has seven and a half years to go on it, at least. I am loving it.

[Magox]

And waiting is going to stop that? Sorry, it's time to crap or get off the crapper. Not to mention that this isnt something that was just dropped on them, the august time period and vote in the fall has been talked about for a long time, since the inauguration.

 

Who is everyone? Are you talking about the rather decent Senate plan that was agreed to today or the somewhat crappy House plan that was agreed to yesterday?

Dog, I know that you want to defend the decisions that are coming from this administration, but patience is a virtue. They are no where near ready to pass an effective bill, prudence would be advised, specially in this case, where it could possibly be the largest piece of legislation that we have seen in a very long time.

 

Here's what Elmendorf, director of the CBO said yesterday, and mind you the CBO is supposedly non partisan, but leans slightly more to the left :

 

“We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount,” Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan agency, told the Senate Budget Committee yesterday. “The curve is being raised.”

 

But hey, let's just pass this damn thing right now, there is a 50/50% chance that he may be wrong.

 

Feel like gambling?

[Kelly the Dog]

Dog, I know that you want to defend the decisions that are coming from this administration, but patience is a virtue. They are no where near ready to pass an effective bill, prudence would be advised, specially in this case, where it could possibly be the largest piece of legislation that we have seen in a very long time.

 

Here's what Elmendorf, director of the CBO said yesterday, and mind you the CBO is supposedly non partisan, but leans slightly more to the left :

 

"We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount," Douglas Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan agency, told the Senate Budget Committee yesterday. "The curve is being raised."

 

But hey, let's just pass this damn thing right now, there is a 50/50% chance that he may be wrong.

 

Feel like gambling?

1] He was talking about the House bill, which I havent read but I have stated here I think is crappy from what I do know about it. I don't like the way they want to pay for it and I don't think they should tax the rich people this way.

 

2] That is not going to be the bill that is going to be passed and the President is going to sign. The Senate version is a lot different, and costs significantly less, and the CBO's analysis of it is decidedly different.

 

3] There is going to be all kinds of changes in both bills, but it's going to be a lot more like the Senate bill (mostly because the things the Prez has said he wants and doesn't want are more in the Senate's version, and the public would prefer it).

 

4] Part of the problem with the CBO doing the projections on health care is they cannot determine how much certain elements of the bill are going to save, so they don't even address it. It's not a criticism of them, there isn't a way to know how much preventative care and wellness and other elements of the total cost like how much certain factions of the industries are going to pony up. So even the CBO says they don't know how much less it's going to be.

 

I'm glad the CBO guy came out and said what he did. I think the House Democrats are being idiots again and adding stuff that flat doesn't need or even deserve to be in there.

 

Ultimately, I'm hoping it will be a decent bill. It's not going to solve health care though.

[Wacka]

So you take your time and craft a good bill to begin with.