Sanders has a history of getting the most from d-line

[Whites Bay]

It would more likely be changed by a positional coach (ie-defensive line coach) than by a coordinator.

 

And I'm greatly encouraged by Sanders' documented development of Jevon Kearse (who we know is a freakishly athletic player similar to Aaron Maybin) and more recently with Aaron Kampman who Sanders helped develop into a Pro Bowl end after being a 5th round pick.

 

Wow, SJBF!! Comparing Maybin to Kearse? I don't know one way or the other, but...wow. If we end up with as much as Son-Of-Kearse on the DL, I might start being an optimist about this bunch.

 

Really?

 

"Baby it's you" - The Shirelles

[BillsVet]

That article, along with the latest video on bb.com, is really eye opening. It sounds as though our defense and offense have been run like a high school team, for years. They're just now learning... “I think the tendency is with everybody in the NFL you have an initial move and a lot of times you get stuck,” said Williams. “And you don’t know where to go from there. And the things that he’s been doing are teaching us how to have those answers if our initial move is neutralized.” ??

 

The Offense is just now learning how to change plays at the line and that it's hard to process all this information in a few seconds?

 

My first reaction, quite honestly, isn't one of enthusiasm for the upcoming season. It's one of disgust and amazement. How can a DT that's been starting for 3 years not realize that he needs to have something after his initial move? Or Edwards is just now being able to change the plays at the line? Isn't this stuff that every team in the league does? It's no wonder we've looked so inept and bland for 3 years. How can they ever expect to win consistently when the opposing team recognizes the play or defensive set and audiblizes - and we do nothing in return?

 

So basically, our team has been coached to go out there and try hard. And that's about it. Is it just me; am I wrong in my take from those 2 pieces?

 

It's troubling that the coaching staff expresses so little confidence in their players. However, I believe this is a product of the youth movement the team pursued from 06-08. The team has so many starters in their rookie, second, or third years in the league during those seasons. And it's also the result of DJ's coaching style, which relies on taking few chances, particularly on offense. Unless of course it's a FB option pass in the waning moments of a game.

 

The C2 remains a defense which relies heavily on the front four to generate a pass rush. And with 48 sacks in two seasons, it's been mediocre. They needed an infusion of talent, but I'm not sure guys like Kelsay and Williams will all of a sudden become players who can pressure the QB. I hope Maybin can provide something on passing downs, but that's not concrete.

 

On offense and defense, it seemed like the coaches were reacting and not a step ahead of their opponents, especially as the season wore on. Fewell had to depart from the C2 when it became clear their front four wasn't getting it done in the wake of Schobel's injury.

 

Agree wholeheartedly with your post here.

[BillsVet]

For the record, GB fired Sanders as their DC. Granted they moved to the 3-4, but only after hiring Dom Capers as the new DC.

 

Coaches fired at one level and hired at a lower one are effectively demoted. That's not a track record I'm going to bank on until results start coming. Sanders, like many on Buffalo's staff, hasn't demonstrated consistent success.

[Whites Bay]

For the record, GB fired Sanders as their DC. Granted they moved to the 3-4, but only after hiring Dom Capers as the new DC.

 

Coaches fired at one level and hired at a lower one are effectively demoted. That's not a track record I'm going to bank on until results start coming. Sanders, like many on Buffalo's staff, hasn't demonstrated consistent success.

 

...and Belichick really sucked in Cleveland....

 

"Too Far Gone" - Todd Rundgren

[BillsVet]

...and Belichick really sucked in Cleveland....

 

"Too Far Gone" - Todd Rundgren

 

He also was the DC on two SB winning teams before taking over Cleveland in 91.

 

Don't stop now.

[Steely Dan]

In my opinion as a former player, coach, and watching my son get coached on D line it really is all about fit and temperment.......

 

Just to give you a for instance on a much lower level....I coached JAAF football as the D line coach for a couple of years and the coaches of a particular group tend to stay togehter all the way up through the different age groups. A D line coached moved away at the last minute and I was asked to step in (the HC said he wasn't that good of a coach anyway but he was a friend so nothing was said)

 

In my first month of practices I noticed that when a D Line player would make a mistake their head would immediately go down and they would cringe.......waiting for the yelling to come. Then when it didn't the player would look up at me and I would say "run it again".....if the same mistake was made I would pull the player insert another kid for a couple of series and privately QUIETLY talk to them on the sideline about the assignment......find out what was going on.......explain what the player needed to do......explain why he needed to do it.....then reinsert the player. I was also very big on "film session time" at my house that involved practice and game film, my big screen TV, and pizza. It was not a B word session but a time to see how things were actually playing out and to give input both ways.....sometimes it was discovered that a player was a bad fit at one position and a better one at another.....another thing I did was make it understood that NOBODY was safe at their spots......if I decided that someone wasn't cutting it after giving them their shot and somebody behind them was playing better.......then there were going to be battles for the positions.

 

Things went on like this for a while.......the D line play picked up big time (and I was told by the leaving D line coach that I had my work cut out for me because this was a "soft" bunch) we made the playoffs every year I coached (my diebetes started getting the better of me and I had to stop) and I had several players make the all league team.

 

As it turns out....the last coach was just not a good fit for the team......a yeller and a screamer who didnt take the time out to teach and explain why things needed to be done a certain way......never listened to his players and actually punished them if they had something to say and NEVER went the extra mile to spend time with them and get to know them like with extra film sessions. He also never gave explanations on playing time to his players and usually went with the same ones except for injury.....he didn't want to spend the time to make sure he was putting his best talent out on the field (and sometimes depending on the strength of another team you have to know when to give some players a blow and play others) if you have a team that is run dominant.....then your players that play run best should be playing....if you have a hotshot young QB going against you.....you need guys who can get pressure into the backfield. In the end it all works out because everybody thinks they are a part of the team.

 

Now....keep in mind that this is on a much lower level.......but when coaches figure out how to reach their players the production picked up......it happened with my son this past year and his new Defensive coach to......he was playing well last year but this year they were calling the house when they found out he couldn't make it to a big passing tourny this weekend because he was going to a D linemen academy camp. THAT IS what reaches my son....coaches caring whethe or not he is actually there and making him know he is an important part of the team.

 

I am hoping that this can be a turnaround year for Jon Mccargo as well.

 

Great post! I think that explains the situation with the Bills very well.

 

Sorry to hear about your diabetes.

[Whites Bay]

He also was the DC on two SB winning teams before taking over Cleveland in 91.

 

Don't stop now.

 

Just starting. Your point is ceded, kind sir. The Antichrist was promoted from DC to HC, and he went 5-11 and was shown the gutter. I still have memories of His Pompousness being led to the sidelines after Kelly and Crew shredded them.

 

But what's the point? Is the point the fact that a coach can go from DC to HC to Failure to Success, or is the point that a HC could go to DC (or OC) back to HC to Success? What counts in this league, other than Success?

 

It must be the offseason. I see a lot of angels dancing on the heads of a lot of pins.

[K-9]

...I am hoping that this can be a turnaround year for Jon Mccargo as well.

 

Outstaning work, coach. I'll also lay odds that you're the "cool" parents on the block as well.

 

As I predicted earlier in the thread, I think McCargo is ready to turn it around, assuming he's healthy. From the sound of things, he's already responding to Sanders' style. He seems more mature about his approach, more professional. It may end up that his failing the Colts' physical ends up being the best thing for us.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[spartacus]

I simply don't understand this "Kyle Williams is not a legitimate starter" mumbo jumbo. The guy has started 43 of the 48 NFL games he's been on a roster for.

Terrence Pennington started half a season - before getting cut outright

 

Keith Ellison is still starting

 

the beat goes on.

 

just because he is starting does not mean he is any good

[zazie]

I simply don't understand this "Kyle Williams is not a legitimate starter" mumbo jumbo. The guy has started 43 of the 48 NFL games he's been on a roster for.

I agree, Kyle seems to do fine. Not perfect, but a real nfl calibre starter.

[spartacus]

Yeah but he's not that bad either. If he wasn't a starter he would be one HELL of a back up. They guy is steady, consistent, and rarely, if ever, misses the opportunity to make a play. He doesn't get blown up, he doesn't get pushed around, and he's incredibly stout in the run game, am I missing something? I was under the impression that the DT playing his position wasn't supposed to penetrate. So what, specifically, is he not "that good" at?

 

probably the part that results in teams running for 128 yards / game

[spartacus]

That article, along with the latest video on bb.com, is really eye opening. It sounds as though our defense and offense have been run like a high school team, for years. They're just now learning... “I think the tendency is with everybody in the NFL you have an initial move and a lot of times you get stuck,” said Williams. “And you don’t know where to go from there. And the things that he’s been doing are teaching us how to have those answers if our initial move is neutralized.” ??

 

The Offense is just now learning how to change plays at the line and that it's hard to process all this information in a few seconds?

 

My first reaction, quite honestly, isn't one of enthusiasm for the upcoming season. It's one of disgust and amazement. How can a DT that's been starting for 3 years not realize that he needs to have something after his initial move? Or Edwards is just now being able to change the plays at the line? Isn't this stuff that every team in the league does? It's no wonder we've looked so inept and bland for 3 years. How can they ever expect to win consistently when the opposing team recognizes the play or defensive set and audiblizes - and we do nothing in return?

 

So basically, our team has been coached to go out there and try hard. And that's about it. Is it just me; am I wrong in my take from those 2 pieces?

 

Now you know why it's hard to win in the NFL in DICKs' world.

[zazie]

Now you know why it's hard to win in the NFL in DICKs' world.

Dick has some kind of weather to contend with. Please don't overlook that.

[spartacus]

Great post! I think that explains the situation with the Bills very well.

 

Sorry to hear about your diabetes.

 

security needs to be tightened at OBD.

 

who ever heard of DL coaches breaking in and just coaching on their own.

 

if only Dick knew these screamers were crappy coaches - the Bills would have made the playoffs years ago!!

 

good thing they got those screamers out of town so they don't hurt McCargo's feelings any more

[VOR]

For the record, GB fired Sanders as their DC. Granted they moved to the 3-4, but only after hiring Dom Capers as the new DC.

 

Coaches fired at one level and hired at a lower one are effectively demoted. That's not a track record I'm going to bank on until results start coming. Sanders, like many on Buffalo's staff, hasn't demonstrated consistent success.

So what if Sanders, as a 4-3 DC, was fired in favor of Capers, ad 3-4 DC? He'll be a DL coach with the Bills, who run a 4-3. Any other moot points you'd like to bring up?

[BillsVet]

Just starting. Your point is ceded, kind sir. The Antichrist was promoted from DC to HC, and he went 5-11 and was shown the gutter. I still have memories of His Pompousness being led to the sidelines after Kelly and Crew shredded them.

 

But what's the point? Is the point the fact that a coach can go from DC to HC to Failure to Success, or is the point that a HC could go to DC (or OC) back to HC to Success? What counts in this league, other than Success?

 

It must be the offseason. I see a lot of angels dancing on the heads of a lot of pins.

 

It remains to be seen how the defensive, particularly the defensive line can pressure the QB. We shall see. Perhaps they improve, perhaps not. In the meantime, I wouldn't mind seeing Brady, Pennington, and Sanchez hit the turf a lot more often.

 

So what if Sanders, as a 4-3 DC, was fired in favor of Capers, ad 3-4 DC? He'll be a DL coach with the Bills, who run a 4-3. Any other moot points you'd like to bring up?

 

Sanders was fired because the GB defense slumped from being good enough to get to the NFC Title Game to being just plain poor in 2008. It was a precipitous drop off for a talented squad featuring a lot of talent including Kampman, Barnett, Woodson, Collins, et al.

[VOR]

Sanders was fired because the GB defense slumped from being good enough to get to the NFC Title Game to being just plain poor in 2008. It was a precipitous drop off for a talented squad featuring a lot of talent including Kampman, Barnett, Woodson, Collins, et al.

Well the Packers lost DT Corey Williams, and had no one to replace him. And that's why IMHO going to a 3-4 without a proven NT will prove to be no better for them, if not worse. They also had numerous injuries, and got 0 sacks from KGB, compared to 10 in 2007 (Corey Williams took 7 sacks with him).

 

But just because a guy isn't a good HC or coordinator, it doesn't mean he isn't a good coordinator or positional coach. The Packers decided Sanders wasn't a good DC and/or decided to go in a completely different direction. But it's not like they were going to demote Sanders to DL coach, and that's rarely ever done. Even moreso since he's not a 3-4 guy.

[zazie]

In my opinion as a former player, coach, and watching my son get coached on D line it really is all about fit and temperment.......

 

Just to give you a for instance on a much lower level....I coached JAAF football as the D line coach for a couple of years and the coaches of a particular group tend to stay togehter all the way up through the different age groups. A D line coached moved away at the last minute and I was asked to step in (the HC said he wasn't that good of a coach anyway but he was a friend so nothing was said)

 

In my first month of practices I noticed that when a D Line player would make a mistake their head would immediately go down and they would cringe.......waiting for the yelling to come. Then when it didn't the player would look up at me and I would say "run it again".....if the same mistake was made I would pull the player insert another kid for a couple of series and privately QUIETLY talk to them on the sideline about the assignment......find out what was going on.......explain what the player needed to do......explain why he needed to do it.....then reinsert the player. I was also very big on "film session time" at my house that involved practice and game film, my big screen TV, and pizza. It was not a B word session but a time to see how things were actually playing out and to give input both ways.....sometimes it was discovered that a player was a bad fit at one position and a better one at another.....another thing I did was make it understood that NOBODY was safe at their spots......if I decided that someone wasn't cutting it after giving them their shot and somebody behind them was playing better.......then there were going to be battles for the positions.

 

Things went on like this for a while.......the D line play picked up big time (and I was told by the leaving D line coach that I had my work cut out for me because this was a "soft" bunch) we made the playoffs every year I coached (my diebetes started getting the better of me and I had to stop) and I had several players make the all league team.

 

As it turns out....the last coach was just not a good fit for the team......a yeller and a screamer who didnt take the time out to teach and explain why things needed to be done a certain way......never listened to his players and actually punished them if they had something to say and NEVER went the extra mile to spend time with them and get to know them like with extra film sessions. He also never gave explanations on playing time to his players and usually went with the same ones except for injury.....he didn't want to spend the time to make sure he was putting his best talent out on the field (and sometimes depending on the strength of another team you have to know when to give some players a blow and play others) if you have a team that is run dominant.....then your players that play run best should be playing....if you have a hotshot young QB going against you.....you need guys who can get pressure into the backfield. In the end it all works out because everybody thinks they are a part of the team.

 

Now....keep in mind that this is on a much lower level.......but when coaches figure out how to reach their players the production picked up......it happened with my son this past year and his new Defensive coach to......he was playing well last year but this year they were calling the house when they found out he couldn't make it to a big passing tourny this weekend because he was going to a D linemen academy camp. THAT IS what reaches my son....coaches caring whethe or not he is actually there and making him know he is an important part of the team.

 

I am hoping that this can be a turnaround year for Jon Mccargo as well.

 

 

knowing our team and their penchant for Dave and Busters and Chuck e Cheese, pizza time may well be the way to get through to them!

[zazie]

The past two defensive line coaches for the Bills were known as yellers. Tim Krumrie and Bill Kollar were highly vocal coaches that tried to get the most out of their players by preaching effort more than x’s and o’s. Buffalo’s new defensive line coach Bob Sanders has a bit of a different approach. He’ll raise his voice when it’s warranted, but his philosophy is strong technique skills win the battles in the trenches and get results.

 

“What I’ve learned from many years in the profession is to just be myself,” said Sanders. “I bring enthusiasm and passion and excitement, but I’ve got to be myself because that gives us the best opportunity to be successful.”

 

And Sanders track record shows he’s got a proven formula. A defensive line coach for about half of his 30-year coaching career, Sanders has helped to maximize the talents of quite a few players in his time. Some of the more notable examples are still playing in the league now.

 

Green Bay defensive end Aaron Kampman was a high-motor, effort player not unlike some of Buffalo’s current ends. But what Sanders did was maximize Kampman’s talent with his effort and helped turn him into a two-time Pro Bowl pass rusher.

 

Though Sanders was promoted to defensive coordinator for the 2006 season with Green Bay, he still was heavily involved in helping Kampman and the rest of the Packers defensive line succeed. Kampman’s sacks went from a previous career high of 6.5 in 2005 to an NFC leading 15.5 in 2006, as well as a career best 113 tackles. A Pro Bowl nod followed.

 

“Bob Sanders is a good coach and more importantly a good man,” said Kampman. “I learned from him as both my position coach and my coordinator. He will be a great asset for Buffalo.”

 

 

I am sick of "good man" coaches like DJ. Give me Bellicheat and a winner, I'll get over his not being such a good man.

[Bill from NYC]

He doesn't get blown up, he doesn't get pushed around, and he's incredibly stout in the run game, am I missing something?

 

It is odd how two people can watch the same games and see such different results. Kyle Williams is hard to dislike for his effort. When he gets a good angle he can even make a nice play from time to time, but imo he is consistently pushed around. He isn't tall and has very short arms. Incredibly stout against the run? I don't see this even a little. Do you see him stopping runners on 3rd and short? Seriously, I do not. What I do see is teams running all over the Bills and making first downs.

Kyle Williams is a decent rotational player, that's about it.

 

Jmo.