DIE HARD 1967 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I attended a Buffalo Bills backer meeting this week and this subject caused a lot of controversy. I believe the subject is becoming old,yet some fans believe it very easily happen again. Seems like everyone has an opinion. Some claim the hit on Edwards, others blame injuries, but a lot of people believe a total loss of confidence and a poor coaching staff were the main factors. There is a large group of fans that believe the 4 wins were over average or below teams. Here is were nobody seems to agree...... Did Buffalo do anything in the off season to prevent this from happening again? Somehow the Bills began to slide, and it seems nobody could right the ship. Some claim it was nothing more then a young team looking for leadership and the Bills came up short.
The Avenger Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I don't think there's any other way to explain it but that they were playing some pretty weak teams - teams that went a combined 16-48 - that's terrible. One of those games (Seattle) was the home opener, and we beat a team that ultimately went 4-12. The next week we barely beat a team that finished 5-11 (beat Jacksonville by 4). We squeaked out a 1 point win at home against the 5-win Raiders, then pounded St. Louis, the worst team in football after Detroit (2 wins on the season). The best teams we beat last season finished 8-8 (Denver and San Diego). I don't think the data could be more clear - Buffalo simply wasn't in the same class as the better teams in the league. You can argue about why that is (coaching, lack of talent, etc.) but explaining why they beat 4 bad teams early in the season is easy. Even with that momentum the Bills couldn't stand up to average/above average teams on the schedule, which I think speaks volumes out where this team and organization currently find themselves.
Guest dog14787 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I attended a Buffalo Bills backer meeting this week and this subject caused a lot of controversy. I believe the subject is becoming old,yet some fans believe it very easily happen again. Seems like everyone has an opinion. Some claim the hit on Edwards, others blame injuries, but a lot of people believe a total loss of confidence and a poor coaching staff were the main factors. There is a large group of fans that believe the 4 wins were over average or below teams. Here is were nobody seems to agree...... Did Buffalo do anything in the off season to prevent this from happening again? Somehow the Bills began to slide, and it seems nobody could right the ship. Some claim it was nothing more then a young team looking for leadership and the Bills came up short. We lost our most important defensive player in Aaron Schoebel and lost our most important offensive player in Trent Edwards who never completely recovered from a severe concussion. You can call it excuses, but the reality is Edwards and Schoebel were critical for Buffalo's chances of success just like they will be this season.
Mr. ChumChums Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Did Buffalo do anything in the off season to prevent this from happening again? Somehow the Bills began to slide, and it seems nobody could right the ship. Some claim it was nothing more then a young team looking for leadership and the Bills came up short. I think a lot of the off-season decisions were made with this in mind. Jim Kelly, during the season last year, said that he couldn't tell, by looking at our team's attitude after games, whether they won or loss. That's a huge problem. Teams are supposed to be fired up after wins, and angry after losses. TO, IMO, was a big acquisition, not only because of his game-breaking ability, but because he is a loud voice in the locker room. He'll be very angry after losses...something that I want the rest of the team to see and realize. Other moves, like the Peters trade, got rid of a dissenting member of the team. Peters was not a member of the TEAM, and consequently, was replaced. Our new o-line is touted to be (by Chris Brown, for what its worth) nasty and intelligent. It's a general attitude shift for the team that we don't want players being soft. JMO, if that means anything.
Buftex Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Going 3-9 during the final 3/4 of the season, is almost always guaranteed to keep you out of the playoffs...
smuvtalker Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I don't think there's any other way to explain it but that they were playing some pretty weak teams - teams that went a combined 16-48 - that's terrible. One of those games (Seattle) was the home opener, and we beat a team that ultimately went 4-12. The next week we barely beat a team that finished 5-11 (beat Jacksonville by 4). We squeaked out a 1 point win at home against the 5-win Raiders, then pounded St. Louis, the worst team in football after Detroit (2 wins on the season). The best teams we beat last season finished 8-8 (Denver and San Diego). I don't think the data could be more clear - Buffalo simply wasn't in the same class as the better teams in the league. You can argue about why that is (coaching, lack of talent, etc.) but explaining why they beat 4 bad teams early in the season is easy. Even with that momentum the Bills couldn't stand up to average/above average teams on the schedule, which I think speaks volumes out where this team and organization currently find themselves. Spot on.
JohnC Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I don't think there's any other way to explain it but that they were playing some pretty weak teams - teams that went a combined 16-48 - that's terrible. One of those games (Seattle) was the home opener, and we beat a team that ultimately went 4-12. The next week we barely beat a team that finished 5-11 (beat Jacksonville by 4). We squeaked out a 1 point win at home against the 5-win Raiders, then pounded St. Louis, the worst team in football after Detroit (2 wins on the season). The best teams we beat last season finished 8-8 (Denver and San Diego). I don't think the data could be more clear - Buffalo simply wasn't in the same class as the better teams in the league. You can argue about why that is (coaching, lack of talent, etc.) but explaining why they beat 4 bad teams early in the season is easy. Even with that momentum the Bills couldn't stand up to average/above average teams on the schedule, which I think speaks volumes out where this team and organization currently find themselves. Avenger, A lot of ardent fans don't want to face the reality that last year the Bills were a mediocre team that struggled to beat mediocre teams. Their 4-0 record was nothing but fools gold for those who wanted to believe that their team was a serious contender. When a team finishes 7-9 for three consecutive years, and more telling, finishes out of the playoffs for nine consecutive years in a parity designed system, what that tell you about the organization? What is even more disheartening is the sad fact that the front office staff under Tom Modrak and John Guy are still in place. I guess drawing small salaries is more important than being competent for retaining one's job. A lot of fans wanted Jason Peters to be traded because he simply wanted a market contract for himself. So the Bills traded him for a lower first round pick to the Eagles, who immediately gave him a sizealbe contract. The result of his departure is that the the team then had to completely jumble their OL to fill the void. How stupid is that? The Eagles are usually serious contenders for the playoffs and SB in a much tougher division, top to bottom, than our AFC division. Does anyone doubt that the judgment of the consistent winning organization is much better than the consistent losing organization concerning players and contracts. The one factor which I give credence to for the team's standard poor offensive performance is that Trent Edwards was never the same after he suffered the concussion. I'm hoping that with a "clear head" he will take the proverbial leap.
Niagara Bill Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I think a lot of the off-season decisions were made with this in mind. Jim Kelly, during the season last year, said that he couldn't tell, by looking at our team's attitude after games, whether they won or loss. That's a huge problem. Teams are supposed to be fired up after wins, and angry after losses. TO, IMO, was a big acquisition, not only because of his game-breaking ability, but because he is a loud voice in the locker room. He'll be very angry after losses...something that I want the rest of the team to see and realize. Other moves, like the Peters trade, got rid of a dissenting member of the team. Peters was not a member of the TEAM, and consequently, was replaced. Our new o-line is touted to be (by Chris Brown, for what its worth) nasty and intelligent. It's a general attitude shift for the team that we don't want players being soft. JMO, if that means anything. I think you hit on right point here. The main issue with this coaching staff (Jauron) is this nonsesne of remaining in control and no real highs or no real lows. that is crazy thinking in a sport that is violent and requires players to risk theri own health and safety every day. Bobby April seems to have a great deal of energy and his people on ST sure show it. When they talk about participating on ST players show passion When they talk about Jauron's offense they give standard answers and reaction. Our offense in particular never punches anyone in the mouth, and that is Jaurons fault. IMHO
Ramius Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Its the same thing every with Jauron. Beat the crappy teams. Lose to the god teams. And the middling teams we hang with, hoping that we can sneak a win and that a jauron blunder doesn't give us the loss.
Tcali Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I attended a Buffalo Bills backer meeting this week and this subject caused a lot of controversy. I believe the subject is becoming old,yet some fans believe it very easily happen again. Seems like everyone has an opinion. Some claim the hit on Edwards, others blame injuries, but a lot of people believe a total loss of confidence and a poor coaching staff were the main factors. There is a large group of fans that believe the 4 wins were over average or below teams. Here is were nobody seems to agree...... Did Buffalo do anything in the off season to prevent this from happening again? Somehow the Bills began to slide, and it seems nobody could right the ship. Some claim it was nothing more then a young team looking for leadership and the Bills came up short. mediocre lines=mediocre team duhh
todd Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 It was my fault. I admit it. I attended a Buffalo Bills backer meeting this week and this subject caused a lot of controversy. I believe the subject is becoming old,yet some fans believe it very easily happen again. Seems like everyone has an opinion. Some claim the hit on Edwards, others blame injuries, but a lot of people believe a total loss of confidence and a poor coaching staff were the main factors. There is a large group of fans that believe the 4 wins were over average or below teams. Here is were nobody seems to agree...... Did Buffalo do anything in the off season to prevent this from happening again? Somehow the Bills began to slide, and it seems nobody could right the ship. Some claim it was nothing more then a young team looking for leadership and the Bills came up short.
DazedandConfused Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Avenger, A lot of ardent fans don't want to face the reality that last year the Bills were a mediocre team that struggled to beat mediocre teams. Their 4-0 record was nothing but fools gold for those who wanted to believe that their team was a serious contender. When a team finishes 7-9 for three consecutive years, and more telling, finishes out of the playoffs for nine consecutive years in a parity designed system, what that tell you about the organization? What is even more disheartening is the sad fact that the front office staff under Tom Modrak and John Guy are still in place. I guess drawing small salaries is more important than being competent for retaining one's job. A lot of fans wanted Jason Peters to be traded because he simply wanted a market contract for himself. So the Bills traded him for a lower first round pick to the Eagles, who immediately gave him a sizealbe contract. The result of his departure is that the the team then had to completely jumble their OL to fill the void. How stupid is that? The Eagles are usually serious contenders for the playoffs and SB in a much tougher division, top to bottom, than our AFC division. Does anyone doubt that the judgment of the consistent winning organization is much better than the consistent losing organization concerning players and contracts. Pyrite Gal certainly agrees with these comments for the most part. The one addition I would add to the observation that Modrak and Guy are still around is that fish starts rotting from the head. If one is looking for a first cause for our record of failure then you have to start the search (or end the search) with decisions made by Ralph. On cannot and should deny the glorious and good decisions made by Ralph that put together an extraordinary and likely not be repeated record of achievement by the early 90s Bills. That being said one can neither point to the good parts of reality while ignoring the bad parts or vice-versa. Any indictment/praise starts and ends with Ralph. In the NFL you are only as good as your last record and after 3 years of 7-9 the simple fact is this team is consistently mediocre under Ralph's leadership. The one factor which I give credence to for the team's standard poor offensive performance is that Trent Edwards was never the same after he suffered the concussion. I'm hoping that with a "clear head" he will take the proverbial leap.
ChasBB Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I've been ridiculed for this reason, but I stand by it as at least a contributing factor -- doing deals during the season. It was right around the time that Evans got his HUGE deal that things tanked. This is *not* a commentary on whether or not he deserved it or not. It's about team FOCUS. Suddenly, players start looking at THEIR paychecks and thinking to themselves how hard THEY work week-in and week-out instead of focusing on their next opponent. The FO got it right this year doing the Fred Jackson deal in the offseason. The offseason is the time to do contracts. The season is the time to play football. It's not complicated. When you go messing around with contracts in mid-season, the team tends to lose focus. Plus, I think Jason Peters wasn't giving it his all. Here you have a guy who sits out and still starts. What message is that to the other players who worked their asses off all summer long? Plus, chicken-sh-- coaching. Plus, Edwards nearly getting killed in Arizona. All of the above.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I've been ridiculed for this reason, but I stand by it as at least a contributing factor -- doing deals during the season. It was right around the time that Evans got his HUGE deal that things tanked. This is *not* a commentary on whether or not he deserved it or not. It's about team FOCUS. Suddenly, players start looking at THEIR paychecks and thinking to themselves how hard THEY work week-in and week-out instead of focusing on their next opponent. The FO got it right this year doing the Fred Jackson deal in the offseason. The offseason is the time to do contracts. The season is the time to play football. It's not complicated. When you go messing around with contracts in mid-season, the team tends to lose focus. Plus, I think Jason Peters wasn't giving it his all. Here you have a guy who sits out and still starts. What message is that to the other players who worked their asses off all summer long? Plus, chicken-sh-- coaching. Plus, Edwards nearly getting killed in Arizona. All of the above. Sometimes contract negotiations drag on a bit. What if the Bills and Terrence McGee finally hammer out terms on a new contract in October? They would sign it at that time wouldn't they? If they didn't, word would get out anyways (similar to the silly unconfirmed extension for Jauron during the season) and that would become a major distraction. In other words, while it would be ideal to do your signings and re-signings during the off-season, this isn't always possible. When the club and player finally agree to terms, the deal should be signed and announced, whenever it happens.
ganesh Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Going 3-9 during the final 3/4 of the season, is almost always guaranteed to keep you out of the playoffs... They could have beaten sf, Cle, jets, miami and we won't be having this thread
PromoTheRobot Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Reason #1) Trent got a concussion and came back too soon. Reason #2) Jauron insisted on playing J.P. instead of Hamdan. The Chroise would have won us at least 2 more games. Reason #3) Ralph gave Jauron a 3 year extension. The gods like to f*ck with us. PTR
Billistic Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I attended a Buffalo Bills backer meeting this week and this subject caused a lot of controversy. I believe the subject is becoming old,yet some fans believe it very easily happen again. Seems like everyone has an opinion. Some claim the hit on Edwards, others blame injuries, but a lot of people believe a total loss of confidence and a poor coaching staff were the main factors. There is a large group of fans that believe the 4 wins were over average or below teams. Here is were nobody seems to agree...... Did Buffalo do anything in the off season to prevent this from happening again? Somehow the Bills began to slide, and it seems nobody could right the ship. Some claim it was nothing more then a young team looking for leadership and the Bills came up short. They were cruising until DICK came out of the coma.
buffaloaggie Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 They could have beaten sf, Cle, jets, miami and we won't be having this thread Lost in a world of fantasy. They didn't beat them and wound up 7-9. They need to get a winning mentality on this team. Until they do, the Bills will struggle. It does start with the coaches, especially our offensive game planning this year.
Steely Dan Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 We lost our most important defensive player in Aaron Schoebel and lost our most important offensive player in Trent Edwards who never completely recovered from a severe concussion. You can call it excuses, but the reality is Edwards and Schoebel were critical for Buffalo's chances of success just like they will be this season. He also had a shoulder problem that plagued him for some of last season. From Rotoworld; Trent Edwards-QB- Bills Jan. 6 - 1:10 am et ESPN's John Clayton reports that Trent Edwards may need surgery on his shoulder this offseason. Clayton doesn't say if Edwards' right (throwing) or left shoulder is being looked at, but he is getting a "second and third opinion." Edwards battled a groin strain, ankle sprain, and a concussion in 2008, but was never known to have shoulder trouble. Like at Stanford, Edwards has been very injury prone as a pro and any potential loss of arm strength would be a major concern. Source: ESPN Insider Trent Edwards-QB- Bills Jan. 6 - 2:54 pm et The Bills claim Trent Edwards has lost no arm strength due to his shoulder trouble, but confirmed he is getting opinions from two doctors this week. The injury was discovered during Edwards' exit physical and is to his right (throwing) shoulder. Initial reports indicate that the injury is not serious, but if he does need an operation Edwards' future outlook could change. Source: Associated Press Trent Edwards-QB- Bills Jan. 16 - 10:09 am et Trent Edwards will not need surgery on his throwing shoulder this offseason, according to the Buffalo News. He got positive opinions from three doctors. While avoiding an operation is promising, the extent of Edwards' injury remains unclear and his status for OTAs is uncertain. He hasn't shown a quick ability to recover from injuries. The Bills are poised to add a quarterback this offseason, although Edwards seems likely to enter training camp as the team's clear starter. Source: Buffalo News Trent Edwards-QB- Bills Jan. 30 - 4:43 pm et Bills QB Trent Edwards revealed Friday that his throwing shoulder "feels great" and the swelling has subsided. Edwards termed the soreness he experienced "normal wear and tear" from the season and has been told by several doctors that the shoulder will heal on its own. His status for OTAs remains uncertain, but this report sounds promising. Source: Buffalo News That bothers me about the "normal wear and tear". Good lord this kid is brittle. At least it didn't affect his arm strength. Here's to a healthy 2009. I think a lot of the off-season decisions were made with this in mind. Jim Kelly, during the season last year, said that he couldn't tell, by looking at our team's attitude after games, whether they won or loss. That's a huge problem. Teams are supposed to be fired up after wins, and angry after losses. TO, IMO, was a big acquisition, not only because of his game-breaking ability, but because he is a loud voice in the locker room. He'll be very angry after losses...something that I want the rest of the team to see and realize.Other moves, like the Peters trade, got rid of a dissenting member of the team. Peters was not a member of the TEAM, and consequently, was replaced. Our new o-line is touted to be (by Chris Brown, for what its worth) nasty and intelligent. It's a general attitude shift for the team that we don't want players being soft. JMO, if that means anything. What he said! I can also see Wood getting very angry after losses too. I hope there is a big time attitude shift this year. Going 3-9 during the final 3/4 of the season, is almost always guaranteed to keep you out of the playoffs... Thanks Captain Obvious! Avenger, A lot of ardent fans don't want to face the reality that last year the Bills were a mediocre team that struggled to beat mediocre teams. Their 4-0 record was nothing but fools gold for those who wanted to believe that their team was a serious contender. When a team finishes 7-9 for three consecutive years, and more telling, finishes out of the playoffs for nine consecutive years in a parity designed system, what that tell you about the organization? What is even more disheartening is the sad fact that the front office staff under Tom Modrak and John Guy are still in place. I guess drawing small salaries is more important than being competent for retaining one's job. A lot of fans wanted Jason Peters to be traded because he simply wanted a market contract for himself. So the Bills traded him for a lower first round pick to the Eagles, who immediately gave him a sizealbe contract. The result of his departure is that the the team then had to completely jumble their OL to fill the void. How stupid is that? The Eagles are usually serious contenders for the playoffs and SB in a much tougher division, top to bottom, than our AFC division. Does anyone doubt that the judgment of the consistent winning organization is much better than the consistent losing organization concerning players and contracts. The one factor which I give credence to for the team's standard poor offensive performance is that Trent Edwards was never the same after he suffered the concussion. I'm hoping that with a "clear head" he will take the proverbial leap. The Bills handled the JP problem the best I think they could. JP holding out last year wasn't a tactic the Bills should have caved to. So I think JP wasn't the same player last year. The guy gave up 11.5 sacks last year and didn't even know it!! He also admitted that his contract situation affected his play!! I think this addition by subtraction for the Bills. Even if the Bills had given in to him this offseason he still would've been a lockerroom and field problem. I think the change of scenery will be good for him. He'll be committed to Philly until he feels his contract is a problem again. It was my fault. I admit it. Link If you do that again this year the caps won't be in your ass next year! You'll be dead!! Jack-Ass!!
DazedandConfused Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Lost in a world of fantasy. They didn't beat them and wound up 7-9. They need to get a winning mentality on this team. Until they do, the Bills will struggle. It does start with the coaches, especially our offensive game planning this year. I disagree in that the coaches are certainly key and an essential part that one can and should fault for performance. However, fish start rotting from the head down. As deserving of fault as Jauron and the crew are for the results achieved the buck starts (and stops if one insists on blaming one person though the reality is that the only way to win is as a TEAM so one loses as a team as well) with Ralph. Ralph deserves great credit or keeping the Bills here when he likely could have cashed in big time if he sold them team at several points he could have. However, it simply defies reality not to give both the deserved credit for the early 90s not to also plant the deserved blame for our 0-roughly a decade playoff drought. The current drought for success by the Bills links pretty directly to: 1. Ralph could not maintain a good relationship with Bill Polian who clearly deserves tons of credit for building the 90s team and led Indy to an SB win eventually. 2. Ralph did well in surviving the Polian chop by promoting Butler to the helm, but the fateful choice he and Butler made to wait a year in getting a replacement for Jimbo (leading to the rules violating and my guess HOF honor for Ralph delaying handshake deal with Kelly and even worse for the Bills reaching for TC and then rushing him along as a replacement for Kelly) leading to a series of QB debacles which still plague us. 3. Ralph and Butler ended up with a toxic relationship that forced us into the deal with TD. 4. Ralph was so pleased to get TD he gave him the keys to the car without the needed checks and balances. TD was so abused by getting run out of dodge in Pitts that he made a number of bad decisions here which proved fatal for many 5. Ralph has mismanaged completely HC relationships post Marv (Ralph completely bollicksed the parting of ways with Wade Phillips, then let TD hire GW as HC when what GW really offered was that he was a beatable administrative assistant to TD rather than a true HC, letting TD hire MM and then badly managing the canning of TD and the forcing out of MM,and finally seeming to settle for mediocrity with the Jauron and Brandon leadership to a mediocre result. I thank Ralph for all he has done, but the simple fact is that the current Bills mediocrity started before Jauron got here so claiming it starts with him is simply a misread. If you want to claim it starts with Jauron then how do you explain the playoffless streak being composed of a majority of misses before the guy you say it starts with was even here?
Recommended Posts