Worried about the O-line? Read this article

[toddgurley]

Rookies undaunted by Buffalo's O-line overhaul

 

LINK: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-9-5/R...e-overhaul.html

 

Read the article by Tim Graham, and you may have a feeling of optimism!!! For some of you Bills fans who do not know what OPTIMISM is, this is the definition:

 

Optimism-a tendency to expect the best, or at least, a favourable outcome. A general disposition to expect the best in all things. (I know some people on this board are not optimsitic about our O-line, but I am)

 

THIS IS WHY (from the article, and I agree)

 

1. The new guys (Wood, Levitre, and Hangartner) are all tough and have a nasty demeanor, they FINISH BLOCKS!

2. The are vesitile, many of them can play multiple positions.

3. All 5 projected starter are smart, and Hangartner may be the smartest lineman in the league (this is just one of many reason Peters is gone) Reason #3 is Very Important for the NO-HUDDLE.

4. The rookies have a chip on their should, because people doubt them! (Like a lot of people on this message board)

 

The Bills are banking on versatility and intelligence with their crew. They all can play multiple positions. Hangartner started games at center and both guard spots for the Panthers last year because of injuries.

 

And they have impressive brains. Walker has an economics degree from California-Berkley. Butler has interned on Capitol Hill during the offseason. Hangartner scored 47 out of a possible 50 (believed to be the highest score ever by a lineman) on the Wonderlic intelligence test before the 2005 draft. Wood turned down a scholarship to play at Columbia. Levitre was academic All-Pac-10, graduating from Oregon State with degrees in finance and sociology.

 

"I think we're going to have a tough unit up front with a bunch of smart guys," Wood said. "From any offensive line coach you talk to, if you got smart, tough guys, you can make it work if the guys come together."

 

 

"I love it when people have doubts about us," Levitre said. "It just feels so much better when you can go out there and prove it. It's something to work for. You want to go out there and prove you're not a bad line just because you're new."

 

 

"Any time everyone's doubting you, you're definitely going to have a chip on your shoulder," Wood said. "That's a challenge we're welcoming.

 

 

Now I now they lack experience, but there is only 1 way to gain that-and that with PLAYING TIME, and we do technically have 5 pre-season games counting the HOF game. Now I read an article on this message board saying they were way behind and they would not start (chambers and McKinney would start), but I (we as Bills fans) just gotta stay Optimistic about that. This line could be a very good blue collar and nasty line for years to come. DO YOU GUYS FEEL THE OPTIMISM?

 

GO BILLS!

[ans4e64]

It's not the two rookies I'm worried about, it's our two tackles that are out of position.

[toddgurley]

It's not the two rookies I'm worried about, it's our two tackles that are out of position.

 

 

Very valid point.

[The Dean]

It's not the two rookies I'm worried about, it's our two tackles that are out of position.

 

IF the interior is significantly better, I will have more confidence in Walker and Butler at the Tackle spots.

[Thurman#1]

Truly optimistic people don't just look at the positive things in life and ignore the negative. And that's what your post did. It would be very easy to read that article and feel very pessimistic indeed. Here are the parts of the article that you edited out.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

"A decent amount of pressure rests on the young shoulders of Eric Wood and Andy Levitre.

 

"The Buffalo Bills need these rookies to perform straight away for an offensive line that's going through a serious overhaul slathered with skepticism.

 

"'We're going to have five guys probably playing in new positions up front for the Bills,' Wood said at a youth football camp during the four-day NFL Rookie Symposium, which ended Wednesday at PGA National Resort and Spa.

 

"Pro Bowl left tackle Jason Peters is gone, traded away to the Philadelphia Eagles to avoid another contract spat that would've doomed the season before it began. Gone is left guard Derrick Dockery, cut two years after the Bills gave him the richest contract in team history.

 

"Those were the first dominoes in an offseason that ensured the Bills won't have any offensive linemen playing in the same position as last year.

 

"Wood and Levitre are projected to be the starting guards, positions they weren't known for in college."

 

----

 

"Much will be expected of them. The Bills declined to draft a tackle to groom as Peters' replacement.

 

"Instead, they're switching Langston Walker from right tackle to left. Last year's right guard, Brad Butler, is being shifted to Walker's old post. The Bills said goodbye to centers Duke Preston and Melvin Fowler and signed free-agent Geoff Hangartner, a Carolina Panthers reserve for half of last year.

 

"The term 'hodgepodge' comes to mind."

 

----

 

"Perhaps no other unit needs to work in harmony more than the offensive line.

 

"While the Miami Dolphins, New England Patriots and New York Jets could enter 2009 with a grand total of one change on their offensive lines combined (the Dolphins have a new center), the Bills arguably have the league's most chaotic situation."

 

----

 

"Wood and Levitre will have to mature quickly. Twice a year they will be facing defenses stamped by Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick and Rex Ryan.

 

"The AFC East will play against the AFC South and NFC South this year. The Bills will need to stop six of the top 11 sackmasters from last year."

----

 

"'We go against some great nose guards and D-ends,' Levitre said."

 

----

 

"How will the line respond with Peters and Dockery gone?

 

"Will two rookies learn new positions adequately enough?

 

"Can so many juggled players work in concert without a prolonged adjustment period?"

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

That's the end of my excerpts, so now back to me, Thurman#1.

 

Obviously, there is a lot of room for negativity in there.

 

But maybe, just maybe, the best approach is neither yours here, Todd, nor mine here. The best approach might NOT be to isolate all the most optimistic bits of the article, and there are also huge limitations to isolating all the most pessimistic bits of the article. Perhaps, the best thing might be to go and read the original article here:

 

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-9-5/R...e-overhaul.html

 

... and try to digest the whole thing. It's a terrific article, very balanced, pointing out opportunities and potential problems for the o-line this year. Both optimism and pessimism, when absolutely pure and unmixed, are essentially extremely unrealistic worldviews.

 

How about reading the whole article and understanding that it is balanced and reasonable and that that is a pretty good place to start when looking at the Bills o-line situation this year. And every year.

[billsfan89]

I read the article and I am going to say nothing special. What are they suppose to say "Oh my God we have to start OH sh-- we are so not ready for that". But I did like the fact that both rookies and Hangardner are all smart guys (which means the front office targeted all smart guys during the off-season). Which means that they might be able to gel a little sooner. I also like the fact that all 5 starters on the line are smart guys which makes them more suited to do the no huddle.

 

Still the line is going to struggle this season. But I hope by the end of the season that they show improvement. Than I hope that the Bills either groom Bell or find a solid LT to take over for Walker. I think if we have patience with the growing pains of the line we will see a young core forming with 4 out of 5 of the positions on the line being set for a long time.

[ans4e64]

IF the interior is significantly better, I will have more confidence in Walker and Butler at the Tackle spots.

 

I don't. I don't think a good interior is going to stop Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Jason Taylor, Joey Porter, John Abraham, Adalius Thomas, Calvin Pace, Mike Vrabel, Quentin Groves, Mario Williams, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Julius Peppers, Kameron Wimbley, and Gaines Adams from running around the outside and abusing an overweight/slow Langston Walker and stiff/lanky Brad Butler.

 

The Bills are facing some serious pass rushers this year. I'm worried.

 

The no huddle is the only chance we have at surviving.

[The Dean]

I don't. I don't think a good interior is going to stop Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Jason Taylor, Joey Porter, John Abraham, Adalius Thomas, Calvin Pace, Mike Vrabel, Quentin Groves, Mario Williams, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Julius Peppers, Kameron Wimbley, and Gaines Adams from running around the outside and abusing an overweight/slow Langston Walker and stiff/lanky Brad Butler.

 

 

It will sure help. The line works as a unit. If the interior is strong, the running game should improve and the QB should have a pocket to step into if the pressure isn't coming up the middle. If the interior is taking care of business, the RB/TE/H-Back held in for coverage can concentrate on helping out the tackles, and don't have to worry as much about defenders coming up the middle.

 

I agree the no huddle should help, but so should any effective offense that keeps the D off balance. When the Center and Guards are stronger, all of that is easier.

[/dev/null]

Glad to hear that Levitre and Wood are up to the challenge

[BillsVet]

IF the interior is significantly better, I will have more confidence in Walker and Butler at the Tackle spots.

 

This is a non-sequitur. If anything, Walker and apparently Butler will get plenty of help from the TE, because neither have the agility or foot-work to go one on one with speed rushers. And so they'll not be left on an island like Peters was expected to be. The guards will be busy handling all those 3-4 NT's and DE's. Walker and Butler will need to handle rush OLB's.

 

And the idea of leaving one or two TE's in regularly to help Butler and/or Walker means less players running patters and more predictability in the offense.

[The Dean]

This is a non-sequitur.

 

No, read it again. It is not a non-sequitur.

 

I WILL have more confidence in the tackles if the the interior is much improved. I think I explained why in another post. Even if you believe the quality of the interior plays NO part in how the tackles perform, I still believe it does. Therefore the sentence is not a non-sequitur, as my belief does indeed follow from the premise.

[StupidNation]

I don't. I don't think a good interior is going to stop Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Jason Taylor, Joey Porter, John Abraham, Adalius Thomas, Calvin Pace, Mike Vrabel, Quentin Groves, Mario Williams, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Julius Peppers, Kameron Wimbley, and Gaines Adams from running around the outside and abusing an overweight/slow Langston Walker and stiff/lanky Brad Butler.

 

The Bills are facing some serious pass rushers this year. I'm worried.

 

The no huddle is the only chance we have at surviving.

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable with Peters manning that position after this season. I saw in 2 years he busts for Philly and not because of talent, but because of desire.

[I 90]

When they're new, it's all about change. When they're not it's all about continuity. This team's life blood is optimism.

 

In another year that article might have been about Preston, the clever coaches son, and the high character Golden Domer Wayne Gandy manning the inside.

[JPicc2114]

They cant be worse than Derrick Dockery

[DazedandConfused]

you can make it work if the guys come together."

 

This to me is the key sentence fragment. All the toughness, smarts, and predictions this or that is an individual player is starter talent will be worthless unless these players develop and show a chemistry together. The key player is Hamgartner who apparently will be doing the line calls.

 

IF he is a good enough vet to recognize changes and make the proper switches with authority.

 

If he is a good enough player despite the fact he has never really broken through to be much more than a reliable back-up and a sometime starter.

 

If the rookies are not under so much pressure to start and perform that they simply get overwhelmed being relied upom

 

THEN maybe this will work out.

 

Its gonna be very very tough to pull off.

 

We better go no-huddle a lot and 3 WRs that force the opposing D to play the dime or nickle (Evans, TO and the speed og Parrish) to keep the opposing D from having time to plan stunts and tricks as our young OL is talented but will need a lpt pf help with so many young players.

[nucci]

What else are they going to say? We suck and can't play.

[djcalvin79]

That's the end of my excerpts, so now back to me, Thurman#1.

 

Obviously, there is a lot of room for negativity in there.

 

But maybe, just maybe, the best approach is neither yours here, Todd, nor mine here. The best approach might NOT be to isolate all the most optimistic bits of the article, and there are also huge limitations to isolating all the most pessimistic bits of the article. Perhaps, the best thing might be to go and read the original article here:

 

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-9-5/R...e-overhaul.html

 

... and try to digest the whole thing. It's a terrific article, very balanced, pointing out opportunities and potential problems for the o-line this year. Both optimism and pessimism, when absolutely pure and unmixed, are essentially extremely unrealistic worldviews.

 

How about reading the whole article and understanding that it is balanced and reasonable and that that is a pretty good place to start when looking at the Bills o-line situation this year. And every year.

Thank you for your 'realistic view' post Thurman#1, you're right - depending on what tint your glasses are, the same article can be read any which way you want.

The one positive that I take away with our interior is that these kids are hungry, and not afraid to do whatever it takes i.e finish tackles - they might bust, but at the same time if they do their jobs they'll actually make Walker & Butler look good doing theirs too.

I really hope Edwards is working on his 'internal ball clock', because out of (say) 30 pass attempts in a game, he might be able to get the ball out 25 times, but one of those 5 times he doesn't he could get hurt (remember Cardinals last year?)..

[colin]

the issue i had w our old line is the same line that did well and at times great in 07 sucked in 08. that's because even tho we had some physically talented guys, we had lazy idiots all over the place.

 

nyg, green bay of old, ne, and carolina are all teams that go for hard working nasty smart guys and have success. dallas blo, philly, and the jests try (or tried in our case) to have physical studs at oline and have both up and down years because of it.

 

i much prefer to have cheaper tough smart guys on the line than expensive wonder kids on the O line. they are super important as a group, but they don't make the plays, they just help them happen. you want your physical freaks where they can make the biggest individual impact -- with the ball or rushing the passer/taking the ball away.

[Steely Dan]

It's not the two rookies I'm worried about, it's our two tackles that are out of position.

 

I have no problem with Butler moving to RT;

 

Linky

 

Butler has more than 30 collegiate starts at right tackle, so for the fourth-year pro it’s a matter of reactivating the motor memory of playing on the edge. Still having started at guard the past two seasons re-acclimating himself will still take some time.

 

I think he has the mobility to handle it. I've also heard he has very long arms which are essential to a tackle. JMO

 

I read the article and I am going to say nothing special. What are they suppose to say "Oh my God we have to start OH sh-- we are so not ready for that". But I did like the fact that both rookies and Hangardner are all smart guys (which means the front office targeted all smart guys during the off-season). Which means that they might be able to gel a little sooner. I also like the fact that all 5 starters on the line are smart guys which makes them more suited to do the no huddle.

 

Still the line is going to struggle this season. But I hope by the end of the season that they show improvement. Than I hope that the Bills either groom Bell or find a solid LT to take over for Walker. I think if we have patience with the growing pains of the line we will see a young core forming with 4 out of 5 of the positions on the line being set for a long time.

 

1. Hangartner 47 out of 50 on the Wonderlic!

 

The Bills are banking on versatility and intelligence with their crew. They all can play multiple positions. Hangartner started games at center and both guard spots for the Panthers last year because of injuries.

 

And they have impressive brains. Walker has an economics degree from California-Berkley. Butler has interned on Capitol Hill during the offseason. Hangartner scored 47 out of a possible 50 (believed to be the highest score ever by a lineman) on the Wonderlic intelligence test before the 2005 draft. Wood turned down a scholarship to play at Columbia. Levitre was academic All-Pac-10, graduating from Oregon State with degrees in finance and sociology.

 

"I think we're going to have a tough unit up front with a bunch of smart guys," Wood said. "From any offensive line coach you talk to, if you got smart, tough guys, you can make it work if the guys come together."

 

2. I wonder if they would have started Bell this year if it wasn't for so many other line changes. Not targeting a LT during the draft makes me think he may start next year. They're obviously comfortable with him as a backup at the position.

 

3. Definitely agree. A long term line will pay off over the years to come. If Wood and Levitre pan out as the coaches want then it will be a very good/great line for a long time.

 

Glad to hear that Levitre and Wood are up to the challenge

 

Pun #5,027 using Woods name.

 

 

This to me is the key sentence fragment. All the toughness, smarts, and predictions this or that is an individual player is starter talent will be worthless unless these players develop and show a chemistry together. The key player is Hamgartner who apparently will be doing the line calls.

 

IF he is a good enough vet to recognize changes and make the proper switches with authority.

 

If he is a good enough player despite the fact he has never really broken through to be much more than a reliable back-up and a sometime starter.

 

If the rookies are not under so much pressure to start and perform that they simply get overwhelmed being relied upom

 

THEN maybe this will work out.

 

Its gonna be very very tough to pull off.

 

We better go no-huddle a lot and 3 WRs that force the opposing D to play the dime or nickle (Evans, TO and the speed og Parrish) to keep the opposing D from having time to plan stunts and tricks as our young OL is talented but will need a lpt pf help with so many young players.

 

I'm not worried about Hangartner in the slightest. People also have to realize that TO helps the lineman because teams wont be comfortable putting eight men in the box. With TO and Evans out there look for LB's to be used in coverage so they can double team either TO and/or Evans. JMO

[Sisyphean Bills]

They cant be worse than Derrick Dockery

What makes you say that?

 

Now, if you had said Melvin Fowler (or even IQ Preston), you'd have been on to something.