I am sick of hearing about how our coaching sucks....

[The Dean]

I'll be glad to answer this. The original question to Tim was posted shortly after midnight on June 30, on Page 23 of that thread. The conversation continued that evening and into the next morning; the "zero proof" quote he took issue with was posted at 10:17 a.m. on July 1.

 

The posts I removed -- merely because I didn't want that thread to turn into a pissing match, like this one has become -- were timestamped at 11:21 a.m., 12:25 p.m., and 12:33 p.m. on July 1, following this reply by Tim:

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1467005.

If they hadn't been in the pinned thread, I doubt I would have taken any action.

 

 

 

I'm beginning to rethink that line, but I still believe that I'd rather err on the side of removing too little content, rather than too much. The "Ask Tim" thread is an exception the moderating staff discussed before I started the first one -- there could be even more pruning done there, so he doesn't have to slog through off-topic stuff (including some from me, I'll admit).

 

That said, if anyone here thinks someone else is crossing the line, there's a "report to moderator" button on every post. And if more people would heed this part of the TOS, even that might not be necessary:

 

 

You done good, Lo.

 

It was my post you deleted, and I have no problem with that. I honestly think you should delete more posts (from others, of course, but mine too, if necessary). But whatever you decide is fine by me.

[SKOOBY]

When teams are evolving as fast as they are an easy schedule means squat in my opinion, this just in folks, Buffalo plays in a tough, competitive division and to borrow a phrase from DJ, its hard to win in this League.

 

There are allot of different variables that go into a winning season including weather and luck, I think is the point SKOOBY is trying to make, and yes, if you take players not use to snow and wind and you throw them into a game with 30+ winds and snow, chances are they may struggle.

 

It goes without saying that certain things like FG's in Blizzards are not going to work, so you have to rely on the best options you have on the team at that time to succeed. The more options you have, like great WR's & RB's, you use them. Without the talent on the squad, you're limited as per your options.

 

I'm glad that the Bills have taken a hard look at their roster and decided who is going to get dirty and play hard every game, that's all based on the FO's and coaches decision as to who ends up making the team.

[C.Biscuit97]

The Dolphins changed their coaching staff around more than they did their roster. 85% of the roster was the same, 100% of the coaching staff was changed, and that is the biggest reason for their turn around (not all but most of it). That is what the Bills need too.

 

 

What are you talking about? They changed QBs, the most important position in all of sports, and their entire o-line. That is a huge change in a team's dynamic.

 

Pennington isn't a great but he is pretty good and there's no way the Fins would have just won one game the year before with him.

[Guest dog14787]

I'll be glad to answer this. The original question to Tim was posted shortly after midnight on June 30, on Page 23 of that thread. The conversation continued that evening and into the next morning; the "zero proof" quote he took issue with was posted at 10:17 a.m. on July 1.

 

The posts I removed -- merely because I didn't want that thread to turn into a pissing match, like this one has become -- were timestamped at 11:21 a.m., 12:25 p.m., and 12:33 p.m. on July 1, following this reply by Tim:

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1467005.

If they hadn't been in the pinned thread, I doubt I would have taken any action.

 

 

 

I'm beginning to rethink that line, but I still believe that I'd rather err on the side of removing too little content, rather than too much. The "Ask Tim" thread is an exception the moderating staff discussed before I started the first one -- there could be even more pruning done there, so he doesn't have to slog through off-topic stuff (including some from me, I'll admit).

 

That said, if anyone here thinks someone else is crossing the line, there's a "report to moderator" button on every post. And if more people would heed this part of the TOS, even that might not be necessary:

 

My whole point was I don't need Dean insulting my intelligence on a thread devoted to asking Tim Graham questions especially when its the first time I've ever approached Tim. The fact that Tim took the time to debate with me was appreciated and I didn't intend on our debate to go sour like it did. I practically bent over backwards to keep a good face on the whole exchange.

 

The posts you removed I ignored for the sake of not turning my exchange into a pissing match on Grahams thread.

 

Like I said, if you have to go behind Deans BS cleaning it up why not just tell him to knock it off.

[C.Biscuit97]

The way I look at it, Jauron has had one good season (2006), one borderline great season (2007), and one disappointing season (2008).

 

Personally, I'm just sick of the whoel blame the coach mentality of fans. We have switched coaches every 2 to 3 seasons and what has it gotten us? It is a lack of talent that has cost this team. When a coach makes a questionable call with a lack of talent, it is more glaring. People really want to kill DJ for not winning with a former 1st round QB not even in the NFL anymore?

 

This is Jauron's make or break season. He finally has the horses. But once again, DJ has a better record than Belichick pre-Brady. You need talent to win. Plus, a HOF QB doesn't hurt either.

[Cynical]

While the logic behind the argument seems ok, in reality, the logic has flaws:

 

When teams are evolving as fast as they are an easy schedule means squat in my opinion,

 

If teams are able to evolve quickly, then why does a Jauron coached team always seem to evolve more slowly?

 

this just in folks, Buffalo plays in a tough, competitive division and to borrow a phrase from DJ, its hard to win in this League.

 

Again, why is winning a consistent problem for a Jauron coached team?

 

There are allot of different variables that go into a winning season including weather and luck,

 

All teams have to deal with the same exact issues, whether it's 5 degrees with 30+ winds, or 100 degrees with stifling humidity. So is part of the argument a "Jauron coached team struggles to adapt to the weather"?

 

As for luck, just stop. Is part of the argument a Jauron coached team needs to be lucky in order to be successful?

Why can other coaches be consistently successful? Are they just "luckier"?

 

I think is the point SKOOBY is trying to make, and yes, if you take players not use to snow and wind and you throw them into a game with 30+ winds and snow, chances are they may struggle.

 

This argument would be valid if everybody (or at least the vast majority players) on the team was not used to snow and wind. That's not the case. Take a good look at the roster (even the roster from last year), and surprise yourself.

[PushthePile]

The way I look at it, Jauron has had one good season (2006), one borderline great season (2007), and one disappointing season (2008).

 

Personally, I'm just sick of the whoel blame the coach mentality of fans. We have switched coaches every 2 to 3 seasons and what has it gotten us? It is a lack of talent that has cost this team. When a coach makes a questionable call with a lack of talent, it is more glaring. People really want to kill DJ for not winning with a former 1st round QB not even in the NFL anymore?

 

This is Jauron's make or break season. He finally has the horses. But once again, DJ has a better record than Belichick pre-Brady. You need talent to win. Plus, a HOF QB doesn't hurt either.

This sums it up nicely. Good post Biscuit!

[Dan]

I'll be glad to answer this. The original question to Tim was posted shortly after midnight on June 30, on Page 23 of that thread. The conversation continued that evening and into the next morning; the "zero proof" quote he took issue with was posted at 10:17 a.m. on July 1.

 

The posts I removed -- merely because I didn't want that thread to turn into a pissing match, like this one has become -- were timestamped at 11:21 a.m., 12:25 p.m., and 12:33 p.m. on July 1, following this reply by Tim:

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1467005.

If they hadn't been in the pinned thread, I doubt I would have taken any action.

 

I'm beginning to rethink that line, but I still believe that I'd rather err on the side of removing too little content, rather than too much. The "Ask Tim" thread is an exception the moderating staff discussed before I started the first one -- there could be even more pruning done there, so he doesn't have to slog through off-topic stuff (including some from me, I'll admit).

 

That said, if anyone here thinks someone else is crossing the line, there's a "report to moderator" button on every post. And if more people would heed this part of the TOS, even that might not be necessary:

If I may offer my completely inconsequential opinion, I think this board is very properly moderated. I'm on the internet every day. I visit a multitude of message boards on a variety of issues. Yet there is only one online community that I would care to register (with my real name no less - I still wonder why I did that) and visit every day. And that, of course, is this board. There a several other Buffalo Bills boards I could frequent but don't. Why? Well, I'll tell you. Because of the way this board is moderated. You guys let just enough of the crap through to make the place interesting, but no so much that the place is completely cluttered with inane ramblings and nonsensical posts. Its a good mix, and I for one, wouldn't change anything about this site. (Well, maybe update the video on TBD site more frequently but that's neither here nor there.)

 

With that being said, I think there's also a fair amount of "community moderating" that goes on here. If I, or any one else, posts something that's completely off base or fabricated, I get jumped on by any number of posters calling me out on my claim. Now some posters may not like that. For example, Dog is concerned that Dean is being too harsh. Perhaps. But, at that same time, as a new poster deciding to post, I think it makes you think twice before making crap up and posting it. At least, that's the only way I can figure that this place doesn't get completely over run with crap threads like so many other message boards do. Perhaps, you moderators do more behind the scenes to quiet bothersome posters. I don't know.

 

So are some posters harsh at times on others? Perhaps. But, I think it gets itself worked out. Taking myself as an example again, I'd never make some crap up and post it in 2 or 3 separate threads, because I know Dean or DC or someone would call me out. Personally, I think that's a good thing in general.

 

 

Either way, I agree people should try to be a little more courteous to others. They should also make sure they have all their facts straight before they post. I'd suggest they also think twice about whether their post was actually adding anything of value to the discussion as well. But, I guess if everyone did that It be a pretty boring place.

[spartacus]

When teams are evolving as fast as they are an easy schedule means squat in my opinion, this just in folks, Buffalo plays in a tough, competitive division and to borrow a phrase from DJ, its hard to win in this League.

 

There are allot of different variables that go into a winning season including weather and luck, I think is the point SKOOBY is trying to make, and yes, if you take players not use to snow and wind and you throw them into a game with 30+ winds and snow, chances are they may struggle.

 

sure they will struggle in the snow and wind, especially if their super smart coach never had them practice outside in the elements

[Guest dog14787]

If I may offer my completely inconsequential opinion, I think this board is very properly moderated. I'm on the internet every day. I visit a multitude of message boards on a variety of issues. Yet there is only one online community that I would care to register (with my real name no less - I still wonder why I did that) and visit every day. And that, of course, is this board. There a several other Buffalo Bills boards I could frequent but don't. Why? Well, I'll tell you. Because of the way this board is moderated. You guys let just enough of the crap through to make the place interesting, but no so much that the place is completely cluttered with inane ramblings and nonsensical posts. Its a good mix, and I for one, wouldn't change anything about this site. (Well, maybe update the video on TBD site more frequently but that's neither here nor there.)

 

With that being said, I think there's also a fair amount of "community moderating" that goes on here. If I, or any one else, posts something that's completely off base or fabricated, I get jumped on by any number of posters calling me out on my claim. Now some posters may not like that. For example, Dog is concerned that Dean is being too harsh. Perhaps. But, at that same time, as a new poster deciding to post, I think it makes you think twice before making crap up and posting it. At least, that's the only way I can figure that this place doesn't get completely over run with crap threads like so many other message boards do. Perhaps, you moderators do more behind the scenes to quiet bothersome posters. I don't know.

 

So are some posters harsh at times on others? Perhaps. But, I think it gets itself worked out. Taking myself as an example again, I'd never make some crap up and post it in 2 or 3 separate threads, because I know Dean or DC or someone would call me out. Personally, I think that's a good thing in general.

 

 

Either way, I agree people should try to be a little more courteous to others. They should also make sure they have all their facts straight before they post. I'd suggest they also think twice about whether their post was actually adding anything of value to the discussion as well. But, I guess if everyone did that It be a pretty boring place.

 

I think Lori and the rest of the Mods do a great job and its a big reason why I also post here on TSW.

 

I've got no complaints, nor do I ever bother Lori with or the rest of the Mods with any complaints. I complain, its on the board for everyone to see.

[SKOOBY]

I actually like the latitude here and feel that Lori is more than fair with all of us. I personally have no interest in going out of my way to upset people and try to change things up here on occasion, I feel it keeps it interesting.

 

Let's enjoy each other's company and pull each other's hair our when we must.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The way I look at it, Jauron has had one good season (2006), one borderline great season (2007), and one disappointing season (2008).

Note the trend of that graph. Downwards.

Personally, I'm just sick of the whoel blame the coach mentality of fans.

Some fans are sick of their team being insignificant, and know it's got nothing to do with other fans opinions on various topics.

We have switched coaches every 2 to 3 seasons and what has it gotten us?

Unfortunately, that's reversing the cause and effect. Switching coaches every 2 or 3 or 4 seasons is the effect of hiring the wrong coaches in the first place. It's also not entirely accurate. The only head coach that has been fired in the last decade was Wade Phillips when he refused to fire assistants as Ralph demanded. Gregg Williams played out his contract, turned down an extension, and left. Mularkey agreed to stay on, saw changes he didn't like, and quit. And, Jauron is still here after 3 almost mediocre years.

It is a lack of talent that has cost this team. When a coach makes a questionable call with a lack of talent, it is more glaring. People really want to kill DJ for not winning with a former 1st round QB not even in the NFL anymore?

Odd that you bring up Losman, who was the QB of the team in the 1st year, the year you started out saying was a "good season".

This is Jauron's make or break season. He finally has the horses. But once again, DJ has a better record than Belichick pre-Brady. You need talent to win. Plus, a HOF QB doesn't hurt either.

Play it again, Sam.

[SKOOBY]

Note the trend of that graph. Downwards.

 

Some fans are sick of their team being insignificant, and know it's got nothing to do with other fans opinions on various topics.

 

Unfortunately, that's reversing the cause and effect. Switching coaches every 2 or 3 or 4 seasons is the effect of hiring the wrong coaches in the first place. It's also not entirely accurate. The only head coach that has been fired in the last decade was Wade Phillips when he refused to fire assistants as Ralph demanded. Gregg Williams played out his contract, turned down an extension, and left. Mularkey agreed to stay on, saw changes he didn't like, and quit. And, Jauron is still here after 3 almost mediocre years.

Odd that you bring up Losman, who was the QB of the team in the 1st year, the year you started out saying was a "good season".

Play it again, Sam.

 

Classic stuff.

[Ramius]

For every 1 Bill Belicheat who started his career off slowly and then began winning at a remarkable rate, there are 20 rich kotites who continued losing. Dick Jauron is simply another rich kotite. The guy has been in the league 8 seasons and has never showed even glimpses of being able to achieve anything that can closely resemble consistent winning.

 

I'll never understand why lots of posters cannot seem to distinguish between the exception and the rule.

[billsfreak]

The way I look at it, Jauron has had one good season (2006), one borderline great season (2007), and one disappointing season (2008).

Personally, I'm just sick of the whoel blame the coach mentality of fans. We have switched coaches every 2 to 3 seasons and what has it gotten us? It is a lack of talent that has cost this team. When a coach makes a questionable call with a lack of talent, it is more glaring. People really want to kill DJ for not winning with a former 1st round QB not even in the NFL anymore?

 

This is Jauron's make or break season. He finally has the horses. But once again, DJ has a better record than Belichick pre-Brady. You need talent to win. Plus, a HOF QB doesn't hurt either.

 

Let's get this straight:

 

2006 was a good season = 7 wins - 9 losses

2007 was a borderline great season = 7 wins - 9 losses

2008 was a disappointing season = 7 wins - 9 losses

 

How can three seasons be judged at such different success rates but all have the same outcome-7-9? Makes alot of sense to me-NOT!

[C.Biscuit97]

For every 1 Bill Belicheat who started his career off slowly and then began winning at a remarkable rate, there are 20 rich kotites who continued losing. Dick Jauron is simply another rich kotite. The guy has been in the league 8 seasons and has never showed even glimpses of being able to achieve anything that can closely resemble consistent winning.

 

I'll never understand why lots of posters cannot seem to distinguish between the exception and the rule.

 

 

Jauron's QBs: Jim Miller, Shane Matthews, Cade McNown, JP Losman, and Edwards in his first 2 years of his career.

 

Belichick's QBs before he lucked on a HOFer: Bernie Kosar and Vinny Testaverde

 

Yet, despite having 2 very good QBs while Jauron has had scrubs who never started anywhere else in the league (or played themselves out of the league entirely), he has a slighty better record than the "mastermind" in NE.

 

Again, I'm not saying Jauron will ever win 3 Super Bowls (legally or not), but it is completely foolish to discout the disadvantages DJ has had any center. No coach would be successful with that group.

[C.Biscuit97]

Let's get this straight:

 

2006 was a good season = 7 wins - 9 losses

2007 was a borderline great season = 7 wins - 9 losses

2008 was a disappointing season = 7 wins - 9 losses

 

How can three seasons be judged at such different success rates but all have the same outcome-7-9? Makes alot of sense to me-NOT!

 

Wow, a NOT joke. Very fresh.

[Ramius]

Jauron's QBs: Jim Miller, Shane Matthews, Cade McNown, JP Losman, and Edwards in his first 2 years of his career.

 

Belichick's QBs before he lucked on a HOFer: Bernie Kosar and Vinny Testaverde

 

Yet, despite having 2 very good QBs while Jauron has had scrubs who never started anywhere else in the league (or played themselves out of the league entirely), he has a slighty better record than the "mastermind" in NE.

 

Again, I'm not saying Jauron will ever win 3 Super Bowls (legally or not), but it is completely foolish to discout the disadvantages DJ has had any center. No coach would be successful with that group.

 

And what you'll find is that even if we get "talent" that we "dont have", jauron will still coach them down to a 9-7 record. We're going nowhere fast with jauron, simply because of his ultra-conservative style.

[C.Biscuit97]

And what you'll find is that even if we get "talent" that we "dont have", jauron will still coach them down to a 9-7 record. We're going nowhere fast with jauron, simply because of his ultra-conservative style.

 

You're right. He should have have had no huddle, 4 receiver sets with Matthews and Miller? I mean if anything, Jauron solely stopped Losman and McNown from having Hall of Fame careers. I mean look at teh demend from other teams when those 2 studs hit the open market.

 

Face it. With terrible QBs, you are entirely limited in what you can do. I don't many coaches who have had worse QBs than Jauron. IMO, Trent is the best QB Jauron has ever had and in the best position to succeed. In Trent's starts, we were a middle of the pack offense. Not great but a huge improvement over the last 5 years.

 

Again, I'm going to judge Jauron after this season where he finally has the talent on offense. But I'm not going to kill the guy for failing wiht scrubs QBs who never did anything anywhere else.

[DC Tom]

And what you'll find is that even if we get "talent" that we "dont have", jauron will still coach them down to a 9-7 record. We're going nowhere fast with jauron, simply because of his ultra-conservative style.

 

To save you the pain of reading the rest of this godforsaken tar pit of a thread, it's already been mentioned several times that the lack of talent is the reason Jauron is conservative, and the drafting of more aggressive players in the draft indicates he's going to more aggressive in the future.

 

And the weather's more important than coaching anyway.