I am sick of hearing about how our coaching sucks....

[Guest dog14787]

I haven't even read all the threads......just would like to point out that all those coaches that everybody thinks are so great.....keep in mind that most of the time they have GREAT TALENT to work with and their talent matches their schemes........

 

Give this staff that talent and lets see.......

 

I haven't even entered the actual topic discussion , but you sum it up very well.

[SKOOBY]

I haven't even read all the threads......just would like to point out that all those coaches that everybody thinks are so great.....keep in mind that most of the time they have GREAT TALENT to work with and their talent matches their schemes........

 

Give this staff that talent and lets see.......

 

This is basically how I felt as well, field a competitive / talented team then let's see how they do.

[San-O]

Okay...let's talk up until their third year with their current team.

 

Belichick: three.

Jauron: one.

 

Or, just their current team.

Beilchick: eight.

Jauron: zero.

 

Or their first two teams:

Belichick: nine.

Jauron: one.

 

Or their last two teams.

Belichick: nine.

Jauron: zero.

 

The bottom line, though, is that Skooby's an ass, trying to use Belichick to defend Jauron's lack of production. The simple fact that he'd even TRY demonstrates the fallacy of his "our coaching doesn't suck" thesis: if it didn't suck, he wouldn't have to use other coaches' records to justify our coaches' lack thereof.

 

 

Doesn't anyone remember D.J. getting WORKED by Belichick last season? I was ugly and embarrassing.

[Guest dog14787]

Doesn't anyone remember D.J. getting WORKED by Belichick last season? I was ugly and embarrassing.

 

 

DJ, is it really you?( kidding )

 

 

Seems like Belicheat works allot of teams over along with the Buffalo Bills twice a year, I think its safe to say he's a pretty decent coach.

 

Yuk, that left a bad taste in my mouth

[The Dean]

Why, because we know the size of the fight in the dog?

 

 

Anyone else find that creepy?

 

 

I haven't even entered the actual topic discussion , but you sum it up very well.

 

 

No kidding.

 

 

Yuk, that left a bad taste in my mouth

 

 

Maybe it was Skooby.

 

 

 

 

John, you are right, the Bills haven't had GREAT (overall) talent during Dic's reign. But I don't think you need great talent to judge a head coach. I would expect most teams with great talent to do well, despite the coach. They may not win it all, but great talent can overcome poor coaching, sometimes. I think the questions in DJ's case are: Do you think Jauron has gotten the most out of his talent, the past three years? Have his gameday decisions contributed more wins, or losses? Does he have a record of having his team unprepared for the opponent? Etc.

 

I think the answers reveal a mixed bag, but ultimately one that suggests he hasn't used the talent on the field to their best advantage. While it may not have been great talent, I think it was playoff talent, at least in 2008. His obviously boneheaded decisions cost the Bills games, IMO and they also seemed to be unprepared for too many games.

[Dan]

...

John, you are right, the Bills haven't had GREAT (overall) talent during Dic's reign. But I don't think you need great talent to judge a head coach. I would expect most teams with great talent to do well, despite the coach. They may not win it all, but great talent can overcome poor coaching, sometimes. I think the questions in DJ's case are: Do you think Jauron has gotten the most out of his talent, the past three years? Have his gameday decisions contributed more wins, or losses? Does he have a record of having his team unprepared for the opponent? Etc.

 

I think the answers reveal a mixed bag, but ultimately one that suggests he hasn't used the talent on the field to their best advantage. While it may not have been great talent, I think it was playoff talent, at least in 2008. His obviously boneheaded decisions cost the Bills games, IMO and they also seemed to be unprepared for too many games.

Precisely and that is why this coaching staff sucks. We can all point to several games lost because of a critical call/non call by the coach. The play calling as been amateurish at best. The uninspired, overly predictable, slow decision making, lack of in game adjustments team that we've seen these last few years is a direct reflection of our coaching staff.

 

I would argue that one of the critical elements that a HC brings to a team is an identity. Whether the team is know as tough, hard hitting, finesse, resilient, whatever is typically instilled be the HC. So I ask, what identity do the Bills have? What style of football do we play?

 

I suppose this season will be THE season, again. We have plenty of talented players in most positions. The vast majority have has multiple seasons to learn the defensive and offensive systems (if we even have systems).

[John from Riverside]

I actually dont know if DJ is a horrible coach or just an average coach.......when I look back over the games I think of all the missed tackles, dropped passes, missed blocking assignments. Things that put us into a critical decision making situation.........

 

I would like to see us field a team with enough raw talent on it that those decisions are fewer and further between......

 

I dont think there is any doubt that a coach like BB is a better coach then DJ.......but there is more to it then that.....BB also has the confidence of a coach that has won before because he has done it.....while DJ isn't to that point yet.

 

I would like to see if the coaching improves with a winning attitude from the players first. MAKE A PLAY. Dont drop the pass.......dont miss the blocking assignment....dont miss the tackle........

[Dan]

I actually dont know if DJ is a horrible coach or just an average coach.......when I look back over the games I think of all the missed tackles, dropped passes, missed blocking assignments. Things that put us into a critical decision making situation.........

 

I would like to see us field a team with enough raw talent on it that those decisions are fewer and further between......

 

I dont think there is any doubt that a coach like BB is a better coach then DJ.......but there is more to it then that.....BB also has the confidence of a coach that has won before because he has done it.....while DJ isn't to that point yet.

 

I would like to see if the coaching improves with a winning attitude from the players first. MAKE A PLAY. Dont drop the pass.......dont miss the blocking assignment....dont miss the tackle........

But isn't it partly or mostly the coaches responsibility to instill that winning attitude, teach them proper blocking assignments for their system, and emphasize the basics like tackling.

[AJ1]

But right there, you state the problem with the Bills and it's in a line that extends directly to the coaching staff. When was the last time you thought this team was properly prepared? Name a game that they've devised a game plan for a specific opponent to take advantage of weaknesses? How many times has this team come out of the locker room flat and uninspired? How many timeouts have been lost because the play didn't get called in from the sideline properly?

 

Add to this, the 2 or 3 times a game that Jauron just makes the wrong in-game decision and it should be obvious that yes, indeed, our coaching sucks.

 

I tried to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. I'm a very patient person. But, it's been 3 years. Can anyone honestly say that they've seen the game plans improve? seen the clock management improve? seen a winning attitude instilled in the players? We haven't. This last season it became horrendously apparent with a colossal failure in the second half of the season, culminating with the complete ineptitude of our final game against the Pats*, that this coaching staff is woefully lacking.

 

Can they suddenly become competent with more talent (i.e TO)? We'll see. But I, for one, won't be expecting much. Seriously, after witnessing last year's debacle, who can possibly get excited if we start this season 1-0, 2-0, hell even 4-0? Sure, it'd be nice, but until I see the words "clinched playoff spot" beside the Bills' name in the standings, it'll be hard to get too excited. Sucks, I know. But, that's what keeping Jauron and the status quo has done for this fan. I have all the desire in the world to see this team win, but no hope whatsoever that it'll be this season. I was disheartened when Jauron was retained. And, despite a decent off season or trades and drafting, I fail to see how any of it matters when they come out uninspired and unprepared.

 

My question is what will everyone say when TO is running end around fake reverses and WR screens with no blocking 3 or 4 times per game or deep sideline routes while Trent is checking down? Will we fail because TO is old, a problem, or because the coaches are doing what they've done for quite some time now - call all the wrong plays at all the wrong times?

 

Expecting the Bills to make the playoffs with this coaching staff is equivalent to thinking someone with a 10 weight tied to a leg can swim the English Channel. How many fluke/lucky plays in Chicago's 13-3 season? DJ is proving he couldn't validate that record again in a lifetime of coaching.

[PushthePile]

But isn't it partly or mostly the coaches responsibility to instill that winning attitude, teach them proper blocking assignments for their system, and emphasize the basics like tackling.

The blame falls on the players more than the coaching, IMO. While the staff certainly has mistakes on its record, no amount of coaching will make up for the lack of playmakers we have on this team. Bill Bellicheck would not have taken the Bills to the playoffs last year. As an NFL coach you can't cheer your way to better blocking and tackling. They can only teach the players so much and they either have it or they don't. At the moment we have too many players who are "good" based on potential. Hopefully, it turns out to be more than the same false hope we've had for a long time.

 

The coaching carousel will continue until the talent gets better. Most fans just can't admit that their favorite Bills players might be painfully average. Who is the biggest playmaker on defense? Stroud? How about offense? Evans or Lynch? All three are nice players but hardly are dominant. That doesn't even take into account our weak link starters and complete lack of depth at certain positions.

 

I'm not saying that this team is doomed. They are young and getting better, IMO. I really like what they did in the offseason as well. If they can stay healthy, the team should continue improving.

[Guest dog14787]

The blame falls on the players more than the coaching, IMO. While the staff certainly has mistakes on its record, no amount of coaching will make up for the lack of playmakers we have on this team. Bill Bellicheck would not have taken the Bills to the playoffs last year. As an NFL coach you can't cheer your way to better blocking and tackling. They can only teach the players so much and they either have it or they don't. At the moment we have too many players who are "good" based on potential. Hopefully, it turns out to be more than the same false hope we've had for a long time.

 

The coaching carousel will continue until the talent gets better. Most fans just can't admit that their favorite Bills players might be painfully average. Who is the biggest playmaker on defense? Stroud? How about offense? Evans or Lynch? All three are nice players but hardly are dominant. That doesn't even take into account our weak link starters and complete lack of depth at certain positions.

 

I'm not saying that this team is doomed. They are young and getting better, IMO. I really like what they did in the offseason as well. If they can stay healthy, the team should continue improving.

 

 

No, No, and No, how about Aaron Schoebel and Terrell Owens

 

Point well taken though Push and something even Thurman Thomas commented on about the Buffalo Bills, lack of talent.

[Dan]

The blame falls on the players more than the coaching, IMO. While the staff certainly has mistakes on its record, no amount of coaching will make up for the lack of playmakers we have on this team. Bill Bellicheck would not have taken the Bills to the playoffs last year. As an NFL coach you can't cheer your way to better blocking and tackling. They can only teach the players so much and they either have it or they don't. At the moment we have too many players who are "good" based on potential. Hopefully, it turns out to be more than the same false hope we've had for a long time.

 

The coaching carousel will continue until the talent gets better. Most fans just can't admit that their favorite Bills players might be painfully average. Who is the biggest playmaker on defense? Stroud? How about offense? Evans or Lynch? All three are nice players but hardly are dominant. That doesn't even take into account our weak link starters and complete lack of depth at certain positions.

 

I'm not saying that this team is doomed. They are young and getting better, IMO. I really like what they did in the offseason as well. If they can stay healthy, the team should continue improving.

I agree with you to an extent. But, can't a good coaching staff turn those average players into playmakers? Put another way, are our players not making plays because they're not competent or because they're not in a position to make those plays?

 

When you motion Reed across the line and run Lynch to his side every time, is it Lynch's fault the defense has completely read the offense and stacks that side of the line?

 

Is it a coincidence that fairly average or aging players suddenly perform well in NE? Or does the coaching staff in NE consistently put those players in a position to make plays. Look at Miami, a decent coach came in, developed a new game plan to take advantage of his players, and suddenly they're 11-5. Can we really say that the fins have that much more talent than the Bills?

[The Dean]

But isn't it partly or mostly the coaches responsibility to instill that winning attitude, teach them proper blocking assignments for their system, and emphasize the basics like tackling.

 

 

Sure is. And I agree 100% about the failure to establish an identity. Players on every team miss tackles and drop passes. The difference is, they overcome those mistakes. Coaching plays a vital part in that.

 

Now, like John, I am willing to give DJ another shot with this year's talent. Do I have any other choice? Unlike many, I honestly hope he succeeds.

[PushthePile]

I agree with you to an extent. But, can't a good coaching staff turn those average players into playmakers? Put another way, are our players not making plays because they're not competent or because they're not in a position to make those plays?

 

When you motion Reed across the line and run Lynch to his side every time, is it Lynch's fault the defense has completely read the offense and stacks that side of the line?

 

Is it a coincidence that fairly average or aging players suddenly perform well in NE? Or does the coaching staff in NE consistently put those players in a position to make plays. Look at Miami, a decent coach came in, developed a new game plan to take advantage of his players, and suddenly they're 11-5. Can we really say that the fins have that much more talent than the Bills?

You make some great points. It's hard to determine from play to play whether or not the coachs put their guys in bad spots or the players didn't execute. I'm sure it's a combination of both but I feel the execution might be worse. I saw our guys getting beat head to head alot. I also saw missed tackles and bad turnovers. As always I saw another Bills team who wasn't deep enough to handle inevitable injuries.

 

New England is flat out stacked. They are loaded from top to bottom and have nice backups at most positions. When you take average players/ experienced vets and put them with a very strong supporting cast, they will perform. NE also gets alot of top-tier FAs. Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Adalius Thomas, and Bart Scott are just a few off the top of my head.

 

Miami is a tough team to gauge. The biggest improvement they had last year was at Qb. Pennington stayed healthy and played really well for them. QB is the most important position within a NFL franchise. It always has been but that's another topic for another thread. The rest of the talent on the team is solid yet unspectacular. They took advantage of a weak schedule last year and we didn't. Are they better than us? I'd have to say it's close. Is Tony Sparano a better coach? Who knows? He has had one season. The Phins got whipped in round 1, just like the Bills would have. The key to success is being consistently good. Who cares about a fluke season with a first round loss? Every team in the AFC East is chasing the Pats. Someone is going to eventually get them. The Bills have just as good of a chance as anyone.

[Dan]

Sure is. And I agree 100% about the failure to establish an identity. Players on every team miss tackles and drop passes. The difference is, they overcome those mistakes. Coaching plays a vital part in that.

 

Now, like John, I am willing to give DJ another shot with this year's talent. Do I have any other choice? Unlike many, I honestly hope he succeeds.

Agreed none of us have a choice. I really want this team to succeed as well this season and see no valid reason why they shouldn't this year - save one.

 

You make some great points. It's hard to determine from play to play whether or not the coachs put their guys in bad spots or the players didn't execute. I'm sure it's a combination of both but I feel the execution might be worse. I saw our guys getting beat head to head alot. I also saw missed tackles and bad turnovers. As always I saw another Bills team who wasn't deep enough to handle inevitable injuries.

 

New England is flat out stacked. They are loaded from top to bottom and have nice backups at most positions. When you take average players/ experienced vets and put them with a very strong supporting cast, they will perform. NE also gets alot of top-tier FAs. Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Adalius Thomas, and Bart Scott are just a few off the top of my head.

 

Miami is a tough team to gauge. The biggest improvement they had last year was at Qb. Pennington stayed healthy and played really well for them. QB is the most important position within a NFL franchise. It always has been but that's another topic for another thread. The rest of the talent on the team is solid yet unspectacular. They took advantage of a weak schedule last year and we didn't. Are they better than us? I'd have to say it's close. Is Tony Sparano a better coach? Who knows? He has had one season. The Phins got whipped in round 1, just like the Bills would have. The key to success is being consistently good. Who cares about a fluke season with a first round loss? Every team in the AFC East is chasing the Pats. Someone is going to eventually get them. The Bills have just as good of a chance as anyone.

But all teams have injuries. The Pats* lost their franchise QB and slotted in a guy that hadn't started in years.. yet they continued to win. You can't call that depth. And, yes, the team was stacked around Cassell. But, Bellicheck did it once before when Drew went down and a 6th round pick took the team to the Super Bowl. Like it or not, sooner or later, we have to say that the Pats* are a very well coached team. And, of course, they cheat.

 

Fins, I agree, are a tough team to get a handle on. Was last year a fluke due to easy schedule? I'm not sure either. But, I would argue that their coaches took a less talented team (than the Bills) farther. Both clubs had a soft schedule last year. Yet one was creative and well-disciplined and made it to the playoffs, another didn't.

[spartacus]

The blame falls on the players more than the coaching, IMO. While the staff certainly has mistakes on its record, no amount of coaching will make up for the lack of playmakers we have on this team. Bill Bellicheck would not have taken the Bills to the playoffs last year. As an NFL coach you can't cheer your way to better blocking and tackling. They can only teach the players so much and they either have it or they don't. At the moment we have too many players who are "good" based on potential. Hopefully, it turns out to be more than the same false hope we've had for a long time.

 

Your conclusion is incorrect.

 

1. Bellicheat and probably 75% of the other NFL coaches would have gotten the Bills to the playoffs in 2008 after a 5-1 start. Dick screwed it up by getting overly conservative with Trent.

 

2. The Bills do have some playmakers who were wasted by the coaches in 2008. They were not put in position to make plays. Here are a few examples

 

 

a. Roscoe is a very dangerous player in the open field. The coaches have completely dropped the ball on exploiting his talents on offense. screeens, reverses any way to get him some touches to force teams to defend him. that's all coaching stupidity

 

b. McElvin was a top 12 pick- the coaches refused to put him on the field as an injured McGhee got continuously torched by Ted Ginn. This was more coaching stupidity.

 

c. The CB group of Greer, McGhee and McElvin are all above average press cover corners - but the braintrust continues to play them 10 yards off the WR wasting their cover skills. They can't make plays when the WR is in a different zip code.

 

d. Fred Jackson showed tremendous playmaking ability the few times they used him. this was a surprise he could run patterns and catch the ball in space???

 

The Bills do have some playmakers - however their ability to make plays has been neutered by that crackerjack coaching staff.

 

I can not understand how so many posters continue to defend them for their incompetence.

[SKOOBY]

It's the coaches job to make sure that players aren't put in positions to fail and obviously DJ and company felt that we and players on the field that were not ready to press, yet. This season we're looking at taking what we want versus taking what we get. Turk is installing a no-huddle system to take advantage of our offensive talent, the defense has a few playmakers / an excellent secondary and Bobby April will have our special team a clicking for sure.

 

Less weakness, built for agressive playmaking and talent at many positions. I see us doing well, real well.

 

Your conclusion is incorrect.

 

1. Bellicheat and probably 75% of the other NFL coaches would have gotten the Bills to the playoffs in 2008 after a 5-1 start. Dick screwed it up by getting overly conservative with Trent.

 

2. The Bills do have some playmakers who were wasted by the coaches in 2008. They were not put in position to make plays. Here are a few examples

 

 

a. Roscoe is a very dangerous player in the open field. The coaches have completely dropped the ball on exploiting his talents on offense. screeens, reverses any way to get him some touches to force teams to defend him. that's all coaching stupidity

 

b. McElvin was a top 12 pick- the coaches refused to put him on the field as an injured McGhee got continuously torched by Ted Ginn. This was more coaching stupidity.

 

c. The CB group of Greer, McGhee and McElvin are all above average press cover corners - but the braintrust continues to play them 10 yards off the WR wasting their cover skills. They can't make plays when the WR is in a different zip code.

 

d. Fred Jackson showed tremendous playmaking ability the few times they used him. this was a surprise he could run patterns and catch the ball in space???

 

The Bills do have some playmakers - however their ability to make plays has been neutered by that crackerjack coaching staff.

 

I can not understand how so many posters continue to defend them for their incompetence.

[spartacus]

It's the coaches job to make sure that players aren't put in positions to fail and obviously DJ and company felt that we and players on the field that were not ready to press, yet. This season we're looking at taking what we want versus taking what we get. Turk is installing a no-huddle system to take advantage of our offensive talent, the defense has a few playmakers / an excellent secondary and Bobby April will have our special team a clicking for sure.

 

Less weakness, built for agressive playmaking and talent at many positions. I see us doing well, real well.

 

 

you hit the nail on the head.

 

Dick plans how "not to fail" - and does so miserably.

 

Good coaches plan how to win and be successful

they use their playmakers to make plays - not hide and hope they don't make mistakes

[The Dean]

you hit the nail on the head.

 

Dick plans how "not to fail" - and does so miserably.

 

Good coaches plan how to win and be successful

they use their playmakers to make plays - not hide and hope they don't make mistakes

 

 

As much as I hate that passive style, it probably helped the injury-riddled 2007 team stay in games, and even win 7. But it seems as though every difficulty sends Dick into "safe mode". That reflects on the team's play, IMO. I'm hoping he got the message from Ralph, before being retained, but I can't say I am optimistic. But I am hopeful, as coached have made changes to the way they manage the game, and the team, in the past. It isn't impossible.

[SKOOBY]

As much as I hate that passive style, it probably helped the injury-riddled 2007 team stay in games, and even win 7. But it seems as though every difficulty sends Dick into "safe mode". That reflects on the team's play, IMO. I'm hoping he got the message from Ralph, before being retained, but I can't say I am optimistic. But I am hopeful, as coached have made changes to the way they manage the game, and the team, in the past. It isn't impossible.