San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 If we were going to do anything to bolster defensive end with a proven veteran, we had our opportunity with Greg Ellis. He'd have been the perfect proven, accomplished defensive end bridge player.
thebandit27 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Everyone keeps reiterating that the Broncos are cutting him because he doesn't fit their new scheme. BS. Did he fit there scheme last year when he only had 2.5 sacks? Here are his numbers compared to two guys we already have who everybody on this board loves to hate: Jarvis Moss TACKLES SACK FF 2008 12 2.5 0 Ryan Denney TACKLES SACK FF 2008 58 4 1 Chris Kelsay TACKLES SACK FF 2008 47 2 1 I was just about to ask if anyone cared that he's not very good, but you beat me to it. Unbelievable with this board sometimes. Schobel and his 68 career sacks are no good, but this schlep that averages a sack every 8 games is on everyone's wish list...what am I missing?
ans4e64 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 That's true, and it would probably only take three years or so to fully make the change. That seems reasonable to me as long as you don't expect to do anything over the next 2 - 3 years and you're willing to get rid of virtually every player on our current defense. I honestly don't think it would take that long, and I don't think you'd have to wipe every player off our defense now in exchange for other players. Just because these players haven't played in the 3-4 doesn't mean that they CAN'T play in the 3-4. It's a puzzle. See who fits, see who doesn't, and make the changes where it is necessary. Some players will fit, some won't. I think if you bring in the right coaches who can get to the players, it wouldn't necessarily be 3 years of nothing before you start seeing progress.
KOKBILLS Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Also with Moss we could make Maybin a SLB over Ellison very easily". According to TIJO WTF is Tijo? For the last time Maybin IS NOT A LB...He's a College DE who is going to have to grow into an NFL DE Frame...He could play OLB in a 3-4 but The Bills are not a 3-4 Team right now so forget about it already...Maybin would get destroyed in Pass Coverage...Period...End of story...
ans4e64 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 WTF is Tijo? For the last time Maybin IS NOT A LB...He's a College DE who is going to have to grow into an NFL DE Frame...He could play OLB in a 3-4 but The Bills are not a 3-4 Team right now so forget about it already...Maybin would get destroyed in Pass Coverage...Period...End of story... How the hell would you know?
toddgurley Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Yeah, this is my question about Moss. He has played in the 4 - 3 for two years and had one sack his first year and 2.5 his second. I don't see this as a must-have guy. 9 tackles and 3 assists his first year (with one forced fumble) and 10 tackles his second year and 2 assists with no forced fumbles. Don't see the rush to get him here, honestly. He didn't even get on the field in four games last year. EDIT: Thanks, Captain Caveman. Although Pro Football Reference has him with one forced fumble his first year: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossJa99.htm You never know what a change of scenery can do. While he may not be the answer, if you can get he cheap, it cant possible hurt-
toddgurley Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 If we were going to do anything to bolster defensive end with a proven veteran, we had our opportunity with Greg Ellis. He'd have been the perfect proven, accomplished defensive end bridge player. he is ancient, Bills dont go after older players usually
toddgurley Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 I was just about to ask if anyone cared that he's not very good, but you beat me to it. Unbelievable with this board sometimes. Schobel and his 68 career sacks are no good, but this schlep that averages a sack every 8 games is on everyone's wish list...what am I missing? I think alot of people are worried about Schobel's health. As you know, he did not play much last year. If he stays healthy he is a pretty solid player. But it still bothers me that a saw an interview with Schobel like 2 years ago, when he QUOTE called the sack stat "silly"
toddgurley Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 WTF is Tijo? For the last time Maybin IS NOT A LB...He's a College DE who is going to have to grow into an NFL DE Frame...He could play OLB in a 3-4 but The Bills are not a 3-4 Team right now so forget about it already...Maybin would get destroyed in Pass Coverage...Period...End of story... read the original post Got this from my buddy Tijo (screen name) who is a Bills fan and I just wanted to know your take on it. Considering we have some "pass rush issues" to say the least, it could be an option-
stuckincincy Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 If we were going to do anything to bolster defensive end with a proven veteran, we had our opportunity with Greg Ellis. He'd have been the perfect proven, accomplished defensive end bridge player. He visited CIN, and his former DC Mike Zimmer. But they wouldn't offer the money he was looking for.
JohnC Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 In the words of the immortal Vince Lombardi, "What the hell is goin' on out there.".....in Denver?? They are about to give up on the 17th overall pick in the '07 draft because of their defensive "scheme"?? Fine by me. I just hope the Bills can get him into OBD for a look before another team signs him up! Some players just can't cut it at the NFL level. In college there are players who are just physically better than the opposition. They dominate because they are physically more talented. But in the pros you are going against almost all players who are very physically talented and who are very skilled at playing their position. The Bills drafted Ellis a DE from Va Tech a couple of years ago. Most scouting services had him ranked as a second or third round prospect who could be developed. So far he hans't been good enough, or prepared enough, to even get on the field. You don't hear a peep about him from the organization. A lot of people get caught up about physical measurables about prospects. Instead, more attention should be paid to a player's productivity on the field when scouting a player.
Chandler#81 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Here are his base salary figures: 2009 $660,000 2010 $750,000 2011 $850,000 To those predicting he would be the answer to the DE positions, where does that come from? He might not even make the team. But since the Bills need help at DE and Maybin is not likely to be an every down player, at least not right off the bat, why not bring in Moss to have a look see? If, of course, he becomes available. Of course, if he has a much potential as some seem to think, he will have other offers, too. The Champs (UF) are my favorite college team and I saw him play every game. FWIW, IMO he wasn't all that. At times undisciplined and didn't give his best all the time. The sacks/big plays he made were timely and in front of the nation, which skewed his stock. That he's not panning out, doesn't surprize me. Pass.
Mr. WEO Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 he is ancient, Bills dont go after older players usually Jarvis Redwine.
NewEra Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 In the words of the immortal Vince Lombardi, "What the hell is goin' on out there.".....in Denver?? They are about to give up on the 17th overall pick in the '07 draft because of their defensive "scheme"?? Fine by me. I just hope the Bills can get him into OBD for a look before another team signs him up! don't know much about football do ya?"
NewEra Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Why not OLB - Maybin, ILB Posluszny, ILB Kawika Mitchell, OLB Aaron Schobel? and have our de-nt-de combo------kyle-marcus-spencer? or maybe denney or mccargo? LOL yeah
buffaloaggie Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 WTF is Tijo? For the last time Maybin IS NOT A LB...He's a College DE who is going to have to grow into an NFL DE Frame...He could play OLB in a 3-4 but The Bills are not a 3-4 Team right now so forget about it already...Maybin would get destroyed in Pass Coverage...Period...End of story... Reading Maybin's scouting report, I'd say you're off in your assumption that Maybin would get destroyed in pass coverage... A fierce hitter with a long reach to tip balls and disrupt plays, Maybin also has the ability to drop into coverage in zone dogs. His big drawback is lack of experience; he's a redshirt sophomore who had just 10 starts in college and his ability to make an impact as a rookie is in question. The potential is all there. In the 10 games Maybin started last fall, he registered a Big Ten-best 12 sacks and 20 tackles for loss. Maybin, who played at 230 pounds in college, has bulked up to 249 and his 40-dash times have remained respectable (4.78 at combine, 4.54 on campus). How that extra weight transfers to the field and how long he can keep the weight on during training camp and the regular season are big question marks.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 he is ancient, Bills dont go after older players usually Overly dismissive and overly succinct. As I stated in my original post, Greg Ellis would be a perfect bridge player meaning a one year stop gap until the position can be bolstered next year through the draft, free agency, or player development from within. Last year Greg Ellis had 8 sacks and in 2007 he had 12.5 sacks. This guy was on the open market. After sitting out there for a long time he signed with the Raiders. He would have solved our pass rush woes for this year. And yes he is 2 years younger than Terrell Owens. If the objective is to win this year, I hope he was at least contacted by the Bills. If he wanted too much money, oh well then.
ans4e64 Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 and have our de-nt-de combo------kyle-marcus-spencer? or maybe denney or mccargo? LOL yeah I'd probably have Kelsay - Stroud - Williams.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I'd probably have Kelsay - Stroud - Williams. Mmmm. Stroud is much more athletic than Kyle Williams. If we went to a 3-4 I'd have Williams in the middle with Stroud playing the part of Richard Seymour at end. Besides both being quick and athletic, Stroud and Seymour are the exact same size...6' 6" and 310 pounds. Williams would be like a fish out of water at DE. But yes we don't have the personnel on the roster right now to go 3-4.
toddgurley Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Overly dismissive and overly succinct. As I stated in my original post, Greg Ellis would be a perfect bridge player meaning a one year stop gap until the position can be bolstered next year through the draft, free agency, or player development from within. Last year Greg Ellis had 8 sacks and in 2007 he had 12.5 sacks. This guy was on the open market. After sitting out there for a long time he signed with the Raiders. He would have solved our pass rush woes for this year. And yes he is 2 years younger than Terrell Owens. If the objective is to win this year, I hope he was at least contacted by the Bills. If he wanted too much money, oh well then. Point taken but pretty sure dallas played a 3-4, not sure he would fit the system. I did mention he is older, and no longer in his prime right.. TO is going to the Hall of Fame, and he is arguably still in his prime. Even if he's not in his prime, he is still a very very productive player. Not really sure its fair to put Ellis and Owens is the same sentence-its kinda like comparing apples to oranges
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