SCOTUS Rules in Favor of New Haven Firefighters

[Chef Jim]

That's not what I am saying. If they are equal, I don't mind the black guy getting the job over the white guy. So that scenario would never happen.

 

Right now, there is a better chance of it being the other way around though, that the qualified black doctor did not get the job over the lesser qualified white doctor with the scalpel in his hand.

 

What did you just step into the 1950's? But with affirmative action that's exactly what was happening. Race was considered over qualifications.

[Kelly the Dog]

What did you just step into the 1950's? But with affirmative action that's exactly what was happening. Race was considered over qualifications.

A lot less than "white" race was considered over qualifications even at the height of affirmative action.

 

Besides, I am not setting policy. I am not saying there should be a law, or that affirmative action worked well. I am only saying I personally don't mind when it happens and I think minorities should get the benefit of the doubt. If I was a politician I would not be trying to put it into law.

[Alaska Darin]

That's not what I am saying. If they are equal, I don't mind the black guy getting the job over the white guy. So that scenario would never happen.

 

Right now, there is a better chance of it being the other way around though, that the qualified black doctor did not get the job over the lesser qualified white doctor with the scalpel in his hand.

Back peddle, back peddle, back peddle.

 

Step away from the keyboard while you still have a modicum of respect on this board.

[VABills]

That's not what I am saying. If they are equal, I don't mind the black guy getting the job over the white guy. So that scenario would never happen.

 

Right now, there is a better chance of it being the other way around though, that the qualified black doctor did not get the job over the lesser qualified white doctor with the scalpel in his hand.

I'm sure that white guy probably does. All things being equal, then the employee should start playing off salary, benefits to negociate down to best help the corporation. All things are not always equal.

[/dev/null]

Nope. But it's the first time you really felt the outrage. Feels good, huh?

 

Outrage? It's more like pity. Pity that people like you think that your attitude is going to change anything. It just continues a very bad cycle.

 

Outrage? No. Pity? Yes and no. I feel pity but not the same pity that Darin feels. I feel pity for the future that there are so many kool-aid® drinking lemmings like KTFBAD that we are devolving into a literal idiocracy

[GG]

A lot less than "white" race was considered over qualifications even at the height of affirmative action.

 

Besides, I am not setting policy. I am not saying there should be a law, or that affirmative action worked well. I am only saying I personally don't mind when it happens and I think minorities should get the benefit of the doubt. If I was a politician I would not be trying to put it into law.

 

But your mindset feeds on the opportunists who run for office and then enact these laws. This, then should be merged with the other thread on why we have a representative government and not a democracy. As long as you continue to believe that racial preferences should still hold in the third generation of the civil rights battle, then you will continue to uphold the double standard real or perceived, that minorities don't get the jobs because they're qualified vs having a darker hued skin.

 

Very similar to the old debate on black QBs. The NFL wasn't as racist on the issue as the populati said. You can't have black QBs in the pros, when there weren't any black QBs coming out of college, and you couldn't have black QBs in college when high school coaches never gave them the opportunity to play QB. It wasn't until you changed the HS mindset, did the supply of black QBs suddenly appear. Now, it's a non issue.

 

To bring this back on topic, the outrage isn't that the tests were wrong, but that no minority applicant passed the test. There is no discrimination in algebra or science.

[finknottle]

We have come a long way as a country in less discrimination but we have a long, long, long way to go. I think in probably 50-75 years we may be over it, when the youngest kids of today are the elderly and their kids and grandkids make up the majority of the population, maybe there will be some real equality. I wouldnt bet on it but it's a hope.

 

You underestimate the staying power of the Democratic party and those who benefit from racial politics.

[Kelly the Dog]

Back peddle, back peddle, back peddle.

 

Step away from the keyboard while you still have a modicum of respect on this board.

 

It ain't a back pedal one bit. Of course I don't think just any black guy or Hispanic or woman should just get any job over a white person. I meant that if they're up for the same job and pretty equal I don't mind them getting the favoritism.

[Kelly the Dog]

Outrage? No. Pity? Yes and no. I feel pity but not the same pity that Darin feels. I feel pity for the future that there are so many kool-aid® drinking lemmings like KTFBAD that we are devolving into a literal idiocracy

 

Kool-aid drinking? I doubt a lot of people really feel this way. I've never heard anyone actually say it. It's my own lone opinion and I didn't get it from anyone or anywhere else.

 

And again, I don't think it should be a law, and if I were a politician I wouldn't be pressing to make it a law.

[Kelly the Dog]

But your mindset feeds on the opportunists who run for office and then enact these laws. This, then should be merged with the other thread on why we have a representative government and not a democracy. As long as you continue to believe that racial preferences should still hold in the third generation of the civil rights battle, then you will continue to uphold the double standard real or perceived, that minorities don't get the jobs because they're qualified vs having a darker hued skin.

 

Very similar to the old debate on black QBs. The NFL wasn't as racist on the issue as the populati said. You can't have black QBs in the pros, when there weren't any black QBs coming out of college, and you couldn't have black QBs in college when high school coaches never gave them the opportunity to play QB. It wasn't until you changed the HS mindset, did the supply of black QBs suddenly appear. Now, it's a non issue.

 

To bring this back on topic, the outrage isn't that the tests were wrong, but that no minority applicant passed the test. There is no discrimination in algebra or science.

I pretty much agree with all of that. And actually, in the firefighters case (from what little I read about it) I thought the Supreme Court decision was correct, and the minorities shouldn't have prevailed, because from what I know the test itself wasn't all that biased. If the test was biased, then I may have agreed with the city but I haven't seen a lot of evidence that it was.

 

Your QB example is a good one. And your HS example of QBs is quite accurate. However, I believe it fits my theory. Because in my belief, the few black guys at the time that were qualified, who were equal in talent, should have gotten the benefit of the doubt and the job when they didn't. And it would have been equal and no longer a problem as you say a little quicker if that happened.

[Chef Jim]

It ain't a back pedal one bit. Of course I don't think just any black guy or Hispanic or woman should just get any job over a white person. I meant that if they're up for the same job and pretty equal I don't mind them getting the favoritism.

 

But how often are two candidates exactly equal. I recruit almost weekly. I've go a three inch pile of resumes of people I didn't hire and there is no one there that is the same. So you're living in a fantasy land.

[Kelly the Dog]

But how often are two candidates exactly equal. I recruit almost weekly. I've go a three inch pile of resumes of people I didn't hire and there is no one there that is the same. So you're living in a fantasy land.

I don't know about all of the files of resumes you look at but I would imagine that it may not be the hardest thing in the world to divide them into categories of:

 

1. Pretty fukking equal.

2. Relatively fukking equal.

3. Kinda fukking equal.

4. Not fukking equal at all.

You could then throw out the candidates from the last three categories you weren't going to hire anyway.

[Chef Jim]

I don't know about all of the files of resumes you look at but I would imagine that it may not be the hardest thing in the world to divide them into categories of:

 

1. Pretty fukking equal.

2. Relatively fukking equal.

3. Kinda fukking equal.

4. Not fukking equal at all.

You could then throw out the candidates from the last three categories you weren't going to hire anyway.

 

So you're and expert on review resumes from physicians?

[Booster4324]

So you're and expert on review resumes from physicians?

 

Well, at the very least, we know you cannot be a grammar nazi on the resumes.

[Kelly the Dog]

So you're and expert on review resumes from physicians?

WTF?

 

I am not involved in any way in any decision. What the hell are you talking about? You do know the difference between "you" and "I", don't you? Or am I giving you too much credit.

[Chef Jim]

WTF?

 

I am not involved in any way in any decision. What the hell are you talking about? You do know the difference between "you" and "I", don't you? Or am I giving you too much credit.

 

Ok if you're not involved in any decisions on or reviewing of resumes from physicians how can you possibly know that the possibility even exist that two people (one black and one white) can have the exact same qualifications. Yeah I know you're working in hypotheticals here but the real world doesn't work in absolutes or hypothetical. One will always be more qualified than the other.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ok if you're not involved in any decisions on or reviewing of resumes from physicians how can you possibly know that the possibility even exist that two people (one black and one white) can have the exact same qualifications. Yeah I know you're working in hypotheticals here but the real world doesn't work in absolutes or hypothetical. One will always be more qualified than the other.

 

I agree that no two people are exactly qualified. I do think, however, that people that hire other people don't use simple "qualifications" like experience and schooling as the sole reason for the hire, and that a lot of times one person may have better qualifications but they hire the other guy with better intangibles or better potential or better interview or simple feel or better chemistry or better diversity or better looks or better recommendations or better 128 other things, and the ultimate choice is often quite arbitrary and "qualifications" is one of many factors.

 

In that scenario, I, KTFABD, would prefer if more people in those hiring positions gave the benefit of the doubt and preferential choice to a woman or a minority if all the other factors they have looked at don't make Joe White Guy the clear and obvious choice. if Joe White Guy is the obvious choice, I think Joe White Guy should get the job 100 out of 100 times.

 

That's all I'm saying.

[Magox]

In that scenario, I, KTFABD, would prefer if more people in those hiring positions gave the benefit of the doubt and preferential choice to a woman or a minority if all the other factors they have looked at don't make Joe White Guy the clear and obvious choice.

 

Would this qualify as "reverse discrimination"?

[Kelly the Dog]

Would this qualify as "reverse discrimination"?

Of course.

 

Not according to Chef Jim or AD though.

[Chef Jim]

Of course.

 

Not according to Chef Jim or AD though.

 

No it's discrimination. Reverse discrimination is a made up term that to me makes no sense. And you're ok with discrimination against whites because it our turn right. I guess then you'd be ok with my wife beating the shiit out of me because husbands have been beating the shiit out of their wives for hundreds of years.