Chef Jim Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 u just dont get it...save your judgments....they were mislead and lied to. If you believed you could get a higher rate of return on your money you would go for it too. Someone might be promising you 9%. Maybe thats greedy as well. Esp if you get ripped off--according to your logic. You can't proclaim yourself the judge of what is greedy and what isnt. Those people got duped.And they have as much right not to be ripped off as you . They likely worked very hard for their money. They deserve none of what happened to them. Oh I get it alright. Of course they were misled and lied to but they didn't do their due diligence. Oh yes you can say that that's why people work with a professional but if he had said you'll earn 8-10% average annually and then ripped them off I'd have an issue. But he didn't. They fell for something that is impossible to do in investing. Madoff promised 20% returns annually, not on average but annually regardless of the market and the economy. You invest with someone like that and you lose everything you're partially responsible. I'm sick and tired of people taking zero responsibility for their actions. Like I mentioned when this first came out it reminded me of a client I had who came to me with the possibility of investing in something that had been earning 20% EVERY year. Was it Madoff? I don't know, but I told him if he wanted to get into something like that he'd do it on his own, I wasn't going to help him. Something sounded fishy with it. Once again if you're investing in something that sounds to good to be true run for the hills. That's why his scheme worked so perfectly for so long. People's greed kept the inflow coming... that's the only way a ponzi scheme can work.
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 One word: GREED. If you think about it it's very easy to believe. And I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about the people that fell for his scheme. Greed is Good
TPS Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Well we either put him in jail or we let him walk. Killing him won't bring the money back. PTR Sorry I missed the sarcasm button. Certainly he "got what he deserved," but he's also the scapegoat to assuage the public. What about all the fraud from Wall STreet in this crisis? The ratings agencies lied about the quality of asset-backed securities. One group at Goldman was selling those securities to investors, while another was making cds bets on their default. A hell of a lot more people should join mr. madoff....
Chef Jim Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I just want to clarify my position on this. I am in no way saying that Madoff is not a bastard who fed on people's emotion and trust and that there were a lot of innocent people that were taken advantage of, people that had no idea they were invested in this scheme. My point is there were also many people involved in this that really should have known better and that is why the scheme worked so brilliantly. You show people that you can beat the market year in and year out and offer them the opportunity to get rich they will follow you like the pied piper. If you were to tell an investor that over a long period of time, say 20 years, your strategy has averaged 15-20% but in years where the market did poorly (i.e 2008) you lost money but not as much as the market because of hedging is one thing but to always have positive returns (and great positive returns) regardless of what's going on in the market, that should send up all sorts of red flags. There is not a better mouse trap.
Chef Jim Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Sorry I missed the sarcasm button. Certainly he "got what he deserved," but he's also the scapegoat to assuage the public. What about all the fraud from Wall STreet in this crisis? The ratings agencies lied about the quality of asset-backed securities. One group at Goldman was selling those securities to investors, while another was making cds bets on their default. A hell of a lot more people should join mr. madoff.... This is only the beginning. I'd like to see what the SEC knew. I think a lot of people got their pockets lined from this. And that word greed works especially here.
BUFFALOTONE Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Their greed is what's evil. He tapped into that. They were fools and I don't really feel all that sorry for them. He's still a bastard but they didn't have to invest with him. are you serious? so the working class guy who gave his money to an INVESTOR to watch for him is a greedy bastard? Just want to make sure I got that right. They didn't do anything wrong but trust this man with there money in hopes of a profitable return. Same thing millions of people do everyday. He is a POS criminal.
Steely Dan Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Oh I get it alright. Of course they were misled and lied to but they didn't do their due diligence. Oh yes you can say that that's why people work with a professional but if he had said you'll earn 8-10% average annually and then ripped them off I'd have an issue. But he didn't. They fell for something that is impossible to do in investing. Madoff promised 20% returns annually, not on average but annually regardless of the market and the economy. You invest with someone like that and you lose everything you're partially responsible. I'm sick and tired of people taking zero responsibility for their actions. Like I mentioned when this first came out it reminded me of a client I had who came to me with the possibility of investing in something that had been earning 20% EVERY year. Was it Madoff? I don't know, but I told him if he wanted to get into something like that he'd do it on his own, I wasn't going to help him. Something sounded fishy with it. Once again if you're investing in something that sounds to good to be true run for the hills. That's why his scheme worked so perfectly for so long. People's greed kept the inflow coming... that's the only way a ponzi scheme can work. What more due diligence would they need beyond the SEC giving him a clean bill of health?
Chef Jim Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 What more due diligence would they need beyond the SEC giving him a clean bill of health? The Investment Company Act of 1940: Investment Company Act of 1940This Act regulates the organization of companies, including mutual funds, that engage primarily in investing, reinvesting, and trading in securities, and whose own securities are offered to the investing public. The regulation is designed to minimize conflicts of interest that arise in these complex operations. The Act requires these companies to disclose their financial condition and investment policies to investors when stock is initially sold and, subsequently, on a regular basis. The focus of this Act is on disclosure to the investing public of information about the fund and its investment objectives, as well as on investment company structure and operations. It is important to remember that the Act does not permit the SEC to directly supervise the investment decisions or activities of these companies or judge the merits of their investments. The full text of this That clean bill of health mean squat.
Chef Jim Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 are you serious? so the working class guy who gave his money to an INVESTOR to watch for him is a greedy bastard? Just want to make sure I got that right. They didn't do anything wrong but trust this man with there money in hopes of a profitable return. Same thing millions of people do everyday. He is a POS criminal. 20% per year guaranteed regardless of market conditions is not the hope of a profitable return, it's impossible. I'm not talking about the working class guy, who really didn't invest in him anyway, I'm talking about seasoned investors who fell for his scheme.
Steely Dan Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 The Investment Company Act of 1940: That clean bill of health mean squat. How many people not in the business know that? I'm guessing less than 1%. I think the vast majority of investors believe a clean bill of health by SEC means pretty much everything they need to know. It's their financial adviser that is really to blame. If my FA tells me that this guy got a clean bill of health from the SEC and doesn't have a problem with my investing with him then I am not stupid for investing with him. JMO
Chef Jim Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 How many people not in the business know that? I'm guessing less than 1%. I think the vast majority of investors believe a clean bill of health by SEC means pretty much everything they need to know. It's their financial adviser that is really to blame. If my FA tells me that this guy got a clean bill of health from the SEC and doesn't have a problem with my investing with him then I am not stupid for investing with him. JMO Ok one more time. It's not the average investor I'm talking about. It's the seasoned investors (who were a lot of the Madoff victims) that I'm referring to. They had a show on CNBC last night called the Scam of the Century and they interviewed a person who lost a lot of money and she used to be a stock broker. But then again stock brokers are the greediest of them all.
Just Jack Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Madoff Beaten in Prison Bernard Madoff, who is serving a 150-year sentence in North Carolina for running a fraud scheme that cost investors billions of dollars, was physically assaulted by another inmate in December, according to three people familiar with the matter. ... Mr. Madoff was treated for a broken nose, fractured ribs and cuts to his head and face, according to a felon currently at Butner serving time on drug charges who was familiar with his condition at the time. The details of the injuries couldn't be independently verified. ... The former inmate said the dispute centered on money the assailant thought he was owed by Mr. Madoff.
Steely Dan Posted March 18, 2010 Posted March 18, 2010 Madoff Beaten in Prison Bernard Madoff, who is serving a 150-year sentence in North Carolina for running a fraud scheme that cost investors billions of dollars, was physically assaulted by another inmate in December, according to three people familiar with the matter. ... Mr. Madoff was treated for a broken nose, fractured ribs and cuts to his head and face, according to a felon currently at Butner serving time on drug charges who was familiar with his condition at the time. The details of the injuries couldn't be independently verified. ... The former inmate said the dispute centered on money the assailant thought he was owed by Mr. Madoff. The current inmate said Mr. Madoff's assailant was a beefy man serving time for a drug conviction. The alleged assailant's mother said in an interview her son had not mentioned any scuffle with Mr. Madoff but that he had been a body builder and held a black belt in Judo until he was injured in a shooting in 2002. While behind bars he has regained strength and gotten back into shape, she said.
KD in CA Posted March 18, 2010 Author Posted March 18, 2010 The former inmate said the dispute centered on money the assailant thought he was owed by Mr. Madoff. One down, several thousand to go Bernie!
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