Beerball Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 he was the defensive coordinator of the Buffalo Bills, he was the first one to use the 3-4 in the pros Rather have Collier get 'credit' rather than Arnsparger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Very interesting article Beerball. Thanks for posting. I remember Collier well from his days in Buffalo. He presided over some dark times and it was hard on him and his family. I remember hearing his wife was afraid to leave the house and would put a newspaper in front of her face when she went to the hairdresser. Bills fans have always been a bit crazy. But Collier was an excellent coordinator, that's for sure. BTW his son is coaching in the league somewhere. The discussion is similar to the discussion we recently had about the no-huddle offenses with Cincinnati's Sugar Huddle, our K-Gun, and the Colt's No-Huddle. I remember well Chuck Fairbanks' contributions to 3-4 prominence. I think Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton was their nose tackle. He wasn't tall but he was immovable. The article is very well written and researched. They mention also how the Houston Oilers under Bum Phillips were a great 3-4 team. I remember those teams with Curley Culp at nose tackle Elvin Bethea at DE and Robert Brazile at linebacker (are any of those guys in the Hall of Fame? They were all truly great players). Again thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 They mention also how the Houston Oilers under Bum Phillips were a great 3-4 team. I remember those teams with Curley Culp at nose tackle Elvin Bethea at DE and Robert Brazile at linebacker (are any of those guys in the Hall of Fame? They were all truly great players). Again thanks for posting. Only Bethea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Very interesting article Beerball. Thanks for posting. I remember Collier well from his days in Buffalo. He presided over some dark times and it was hard on him and his family. I remember hearing his wife was afraid to leave the house and would put a newspaper in front of her face when she went to the hairdresser. Bills fans have always been a bit crazy. But Collier was an excellent coordinator, that's for sure. BTW his son is coaching in the league somewhere. The article is very well written and researched. They mention also how the Houston Oilers under Bum Phillips were a great 3-4 team. I remember those teams with Curley Culp at nose tackle Elvin Bethea at DE and Robert Brazile at linebacker (are any of those guys in the Hall of Fame? They were all truly great players). Again thanks for posting. The Collier's lived in my neighborhood and I took a likin' to one of their daughters. 'Dad' was always in the basement, watching Bills 'movies'. I always wanted to go down there and watch with him, but knew better. Anyway, they had no fear of the North Tonawandian's 'hatin on them'. Wonderful folks and while, yes, the Bills didn't win championships with Joe on the sideline- as HEAD coach, he bolted for Denver before the whole bottom fell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm sure he was a nice man, but he's got to be in the running for the worst head coach. The loss to Kansas City to miss Super Bowl 1, the trade of Lamonica and Bass had to be the dumbest of all time (except perhaps for the trading of Cookie Gilchrist for Billy Joe), the trade of Tom Day for Keith Lincoln was another bonehead move. Nope...he is high on our list of all time bad coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 That's a very interesting article. I can't help but think their design of the 3-4 would have been used more had the roster size not limited the ability to have more linebackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm sure he was a nice man, but he's got to be in the running for the worst head coach. The loss to Kansas City to miss Super Bowl 1, the trade of Lamonica and Bass had to be the dumbest of all time (except perhaps for the trading of Cookie Gilchrist for Billy Joe), the trade of Tom Day for Keith Lincoln was another bonehead move. Nope...he is high on our list of all time bad coaches. Not even close to being the worst. Harvey johnson, Jim Ringo, Hank B and John Rauch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Not even close to being the worst. Harvey johnson, Jim Ringo, Hank B and John Rauch. No he was close but there's lots of competition. It's not like the Bills haven't had lots of bad coaches. Kay Stephenson was also a bad coach (10-22). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Joe Collier got them to the AFL championship. Excellent D coach as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Joe Collier got them to the AFL championship. Excellent D coach as well. Yes in '66 they reached and lost the AFL Championship with the team that Saban had won with in '65 and '64. They continued to decline the next two years. I was pretty young then so it might have had to do with other things such as an aging roster. It's hard to evaluate coaching in the context of many other things, not least the fog of AFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bad trades, aging team and Jack kemp was getting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Linky no worky for some reason. But can anyone who's read the article tell me if Bud Wilkinson was mentioned at all? His 4-4 was the pre-cursor to the 3-4 that used many of the same elements when first used in the NFL. Just wondering. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 he was the defensive coordinator of the Buffalo Bills, he was the first one to use the 3-4 in the pros Rather have Collier get 'credit' rather than Arnsparger. How about Travis Henry, father of the 11-10. Seriously, good article! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Linky no worky for some reason. But can anyone who's read the article tell me if Bud Wilkinson was mentioned at all? His 4-4 was the pre-cursor to the 3-4 that used many of the same elements when first used in the NFL. Just wondering. GO BILLS!!! looks like nationalsportsreview.com is offline or has some DNS problems, maybe try later on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 looks like nationalsportsreview.com is offline or has some DNS problems, maybe try later on... You can read this while you are waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You can read this while you are waiting. Great insight! Thanks, Ken. Worthy of pinning, I saved it for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Not even close to being the worst. Harvey johnson, Jim Ringo, Hank B and John Rauch. I'm not sure anyone took a team with superbowl talent down so fast as Collier did. A lot of the loss to Kansas City involved hiw inability to run the offense and his subsequent trade of Lamonica/Bass for Flores/Powell and other bad trades ran the team into the ground. Many of the coaches you mention took bad teams and didn't do anything with them. Collier had perhaps the best team we ever had (apologies to the Kelly era...and turned it into the laughing stock of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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