Will our o-line be better in the long term thanks to the Peters trade?

[Thurman#1]

My opinion

08 LT Peters 09 Walker - advantage Peters

 

08 RT Walker 09 Butler- slight advantage Walker-I do think Butler will be good (more upside than Walker) he's very tall 606 for a OG and played Tackle in college.

 

08 OG Dockery 09 Wood- slight advantage Wood I really think Woods a blue Chip talent with tremendous upside and will give the Bills a needed tough nasty side.

 

08 OG Butler 09 Levitre- advantage even- I think Butler would be a better tackle, most of the top OG's are 605 and under, Levitre is the top rated college OG and like Wood brings a needed nasty blue collar attitude and higher upside than Butler at the OG spot.

 

08 C Fowler/Preston 09 Hangartner- huge advantage Hangartner-another tough, blue collar no nonsense player the Bills need.

 

As a Bills fan this is a little optomistic but I feel the Bills have ALOT more upside in almost all of these positions. Peters was an underperforming OT that performed like a slightly above average starter last year, I dont see a huge drop off with Walker. The interior will be stronger and nastier, there was no real personality to the Oline the last several years other than an underperforming, dont care attitiude. I think we will see a change. It hinges alot on the development of the rookies but these guys SHOULD be able to transition well.

 

 

 

Yeah, I go along with this. And the key move is maybe the Hangartner acquisition, which had nothing to do with the Peters trade. Depending on how well Hangartner works out, this line, in the long term, could look very good or very bad.

[Thurman#1]

I think that my key point is that next year these guys will have played with each other for a whole season they will be a huge improvement over what we had and they will only get better with more time. The only piece we need to get is a guy who can step in and be a long term solution at LT. Walker is our guy this year for better or worse.

 

But after this year I hope Ralph and Russ tries to pick up a solid guy with upside who can slide in and hold down that spot respectably via draft or free agency. Before someone points it out I know we traded our LT who is what I described.

 

 

To me, saying they WILL be a huge improvement is a major leap of faith. Two of them are rookies and haven't played a down in the anger at the pro level. Who knows how they will turn out. I'd guess that the odds favor them, but saying they WILL be better...

 

It's too much faith in the front office, IMHO. We all thought the front office were geniuses for picking up Dockery. Things don't always turn out as planned.

[billsfan89]

Why should we expect to see results on the OL? Buffalo attempted the quick fix to build the OL through UFA (06-07) and it didn't work. They spent exactly zero picks on day one on OL. Now, they've essentially given up a huge contract in Peters for a first round pick with Wood. I really like Eric Wood, but finding quality starting guards is much easier than getting a top LT.

 

Someone will say Peters stunk in 08, and while he didn't have his finest season, he won't fall off the table like some of the haters think. He was a tremendous run blocker, and Walker's strength isn't his mobility because he's about 30 pounds overweight.

 

All in all, it is preposterous to believe changing both the tackle spots, which happen to be the two most difficult OL positions, while integrating a former backup and two rookie guards into the starting lineup is wishing upon a star.

 

Well Peters didn't want to be here and I think that the team realized that they needed to build the O-line with day one picks because they lost Peters. Once Peters is gone you have to start somewhere and they decided to go with the inside out. I think building with the draft was what they had to do. An O-line is a unit so the wholistic aspect may be the better rout to go

 

I agree with you in your assessment about Peters play last year he was subpar but not terrible (Especially when you take into account his run blocking). When they had Peters they felt that they had the hardest part of the O-line set and they tried to jam in a bunch of Free Agents around him (Walker, Dockery, and Fowler). Two out of those three guys sucked and than Peters wanted out.

 

Now they wanted to build the rest of the line and than find or develop the LT spot. So they signed Hangardner and drafted two guards as well as move Butler over to RT. Than Walker fills in for Peters. I am not saying that this line will be better this year but in a year or two from now this new philosophy in building a line might work out better.

[Thurman#1]

I think L. Walker is going to get beat every now and then and when he does the board is going to explode......but I also think that magically our running game overall is going to look much better and for some reason we cannot explain we will score more touchdowns running the ball in the end zone.....

 

it will be because of the aquisition of TO of course... At least that is what people will say till TO leaves next year and we are still doing it.

 

 

If T.O. leaves and we haven't replaced him with a comparable guy, we won't still be doing it. If defenses can put eight in the box against us, our running production will dip quite a bit even if the line is playing well.

 

Also, I don't expect this line to be particularly good this year. Too young, too fluid, too inexperienced, in terms of play at that position and playing together. But overall you have to at least like that they took early picks and spent them on the interior line. Gotta like that.

[zazie]

If T.O. leaves and we haven't replaced him with a comparable guy, we won't still be doing it. If defenses can put eight in the box against us, our running production will dip quite a bit even if the line is playing well.

 

Also, I don't expect this line to be particularly good this year. Too young, too fluid, too inexperienced, in terms of play at that position and playing together. But overall you have to at least like that they took early picks and spent them on the interior line. Gotta like that.

Plus an early pick on an undersized DB guy that is too slow to play his college position in the NFL. Gotta love that too, bills FO sticking to their guns.

[billsfan89]

To me, saying they WILL be a huge improvement is a major leap of faith. Two of them are rookies and haven't played a down in the anger at the pro level. Who knows how they will turn out. I'd guess that the odds favor them, but saying they WILL be better...

 

It's too much faith in the front office, IMHO. We all thought the front office were geniuses for picking up Dockery. Things don't always turn out as planned.

 

I didn't think the Dockery signing was a good move I thought they might regret it due to the fact that he only came here because we gave him a but load of cash which means he wasn't going to live up to his contract number because it was very inflated. I didn't hate the move however.

 

I do believe that the two rookies will pan out. Very few guards drafted that high end up being busts its a low risk move. Not saying they are sure things but I just have a feeling they will be good players baring injuries. I like the philosophy the front office has taken its more conducive to building a good o-line. I think that the Peters trade was what led to that philosophy and ability to do so (with the extra draft picks). It just reminds me of the way the Giants built the line they have. Now all we need to do is let them play with each other for a few seasons and add that last piece at LT.

[busterramsey]

Why should we expect to see results on the OL? Buffalo attempted the quick fix to build the OL through UFA (06-07) and it didn't work. They spent exactly zero picks on day one on OL. Now, they've essentially given up a huge contract in Peters for a first round pick with Wood. I really like Eric Wood, but finding quality starting guards is much easier than getting a top LT.

 

Someone will say Peters stunk in 08, and while he didn't have his finest season, he won't fall off the table like some of the haters think. He was a tremendous run blocker, and Walker's strength isn't his mobility because he's about 30 pounds overweight.

 

All in all, it is preposterous to believe changing both the tackle spots, which happen to be the two most difficult OL positions, while integrating a former backup and two rookie guards into the starting lineup is wishing upon a star.

 

To put it more clearly , this line is a joke for 2009. 5 starters include 2 unproven rookies, 1 second year guy learning a new position w/o much of a pedigree anyway, a pick-up in Hangartner who never earned the right to be called starter and a stiff at LT.. Don't forget too our coaching staff doesn't have a good track record either. 3-13 is our destiny.

[billsfan89]

To put it more clearly , this line is a joke for 2009. 5 starters include 2 unproven rookies, 1 second year guy learning a new position w/o much of a pedigree anyway, a pick-up in Hangartner who never earned the right to be called starter and a stiff at LT.. Don't forget too our coaching staff doesn't have a good track record either. 3-13 is our destiny.

 

Every line has to start somewhere The Dolphins had three new starters along their O-line and a Center who took a big step down and he couldn't handle big NT's. Yet they are now looked at as one of the better O-lines in the league. There are a lot of O-lines that get overhauled and become better units than the ones they were before.

 

We went 7-9 with a terrible center, a LT who took a huge step down and became a barely above average starter, a LG who sucked, and RG who was better suited for being a tackle. Our line wasn't a great unit last year sure going into last year it looked better on paper but it preformed subpar. If I gave last years O-line a grade it would be D+ or C-.

 

How much worse could this line which has two high pick rookies and a new center who played on a good line last year. Sure LT and chemistry are an issue but its not like we are going from the electric company to this line.

[zazie]

To put it more clearly , this line is a joke for 2009. 5 starters include 2 unproven rookies, 1 second year guy learning a new position w/o much of a pedigree anyway, a pick-up in Hangartner who never earned the right to be called starter and a stiff at LT.. Don't forget too our coaching staff doesn't have a good track record either. 3-13 is our destiny.

And, one injured TE

 

My prediction - 7 -9 season AND we retain DJ.

 

Futility begetting futility.

 

And TE will suffer a concussion within the first 3-4 games, leaving us with Futz.

 

An Irishman leaves this bar, see.... could happen....

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

Every line has to start somewhere The Dolphins had three new starters along their O-line and a Center who took a big step down and he couldn't handle big NT's. Yet they are now looked at as one of the better O-lines in the league. There are a lot of O-lines that get overhauled and become better units than the ones they were before.

 

We went 7-9 with a terrible center, a LT who took a huge step down and became a barely above average starter, a LG who sucked, and RG who was better suited for being a tackle. Our line wasn't a great unit last year sure going into last year it looked better on paper but it preformed subpar. If I gave last years O-line a grade it would be D+ or C-.

 

How much worse could this line which has two high pick rookies and a new center who played on a good line last year. Sure LT and chemistry are an issue but its not like we are going from the electric company to this line.

 

That's it, we have to start somewhere. The line last year was basically a dysfunctional group even though they played OK at times due to natural talent in some cases and experience. This year we have a chance to start to build some real chemistry on the line from players that really want to play for the Bills. The LT thing is overrated and besides Walker wasn't bad when he played LT early last year.

[Tcali]

Just a disclaimer this isn't a Peters thread this is more of a thread looking at how the O-line was handled after the deal was done.

 

Eric Wood and Andy Levitre were added in response to the Dockery cutting and the Trade of Peters. Brad Butler was shifted to Right tackle in order to move Walker to Peters old spot. Before the Peters trade we signed Hangartner to fill out the Center spot. So our O-line is currently projected to be from left to right (LT) Langston Walker (LG) Andy Levitre (Center) Hangartner (RG) Eric Wood (RT) Brad Butler.

 

Four of those guys are really young Hangartner is 27, Butler is 26 (by seasons end he will be 26) and Wood and Levitre are both rookies. These guys once give two seasons to gel will all still be under 30. None of those guys will cost any where near what Peters would have. So better for the cap in the long run to keep these guys with the Bills.

 

These guys remind me of the way the Giants offensive line was built about four years ago. They drafted a bunch of guards and centers kept them together and added Kareem McKenzie to round out the line. The LT's the Giants have had in recent years haven't been great just solid guys who can hold down the spot; Petitgout was a solid guy but not really a top five guy at his best he was just outside the top ten LT's in the league.

 

David Diehl isn't a top ten LT but he is a solid guy who plays well with the rest of his offensive line and run blocks very well and pass blocks well enough. My point is if the Bills through the draft or free agency can find a solid LT they can keep the rest of the line in tact and build a unit much like the Giants O-line. The Peters trade may have built this line for long term success.

I liked the moves. We were stuck with an overpriced fat barely average line. Painted into a corner.We had to make some moves. If peters had shown up in shape last year it woulda made the decisions tougher.So we got rid of the talented fatso and the huge salary and the other lazy less talented fatso....--dumped two big salaries,,picked up a high draft pick....a hardworking albeit journeyman C and a couple of promising young guards. Not bad. I think in the long run we will be better off and at lower cost.

[billsfan89]

That's it, we have to start somewhere. The line last year was basically a dysfunctional group even though they played OK at times due to natural talent in some cases and experience. This year we have a chance to start to build some real chemistry on the line from players that really want to play for the Bills. The LT thing is overrated and besides Walker wasn't bad when he played LT early last year.

 

As much as I believe the LT is the most important position on the line its not like a line can't function with only an average LT. Look at the Giants and Steelers they had fairly average LT's but because the rest of the O-line played well enough to compensate for that they were able to be championship units. You don't need a great LT to win you can get away with having a good one or a average one with a great supporting cast. LT's not as important as a QB.

 

The Bills found Peters out of no where I am sure they can find an average LT some where. Who knows maybe D Bell could be that guy. I am not confident in Walker but lets see he could at least hold down the fort for the short term. He wasn't terrible last year playing against decent speed rushers.

[Flbillsfan#1]

To put it more clearly , this line is a joke for 2009. 5 starters include 2 unproven rookies, 1 second year guy learning a new position w/o much of a pedigree anyway, a pick-up in Hangartner who never earned the right to be called starter and a stiff at LT.. Don't forget too our coaching staff doesn't have a good track record either. 3-13 is our destiny.

The Eagles O line for next year features a NEW LT that gave up 11.5 SACKS with his old team last year & says about it "so what I'm only human" after demanding to be paid as the best LT in the NFL. A NEW RT recovering from a torn ACL, & a RG that missed most of last year with a bad back. I like the Bills O line better than that group.

[shoveldog]

Ok, maybe I'm getting old and my memory is starting to fail me... but I seem to see things differently than most of you. I thought our O-Line was really coming together nicely last year in pre-season. Walker looked GOOD at LT. Then, Peters ended his holdout, esentially destroying any cohesiveness we established in the pre-season. I know some will say, "Yeah, that was pre-season." But, I personally think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised at how well Walker holds down the LT position this year. He won't be a stud, but he is going to be a servicable LT.

 

Shovel

[GR8PRKN]

Ok, maybe I'm getting old and my memory is starting to fail me... but I seem to see things differently than most of you. I thought our O-Line was really coming together nicely last year in pre-season. Walker looked GOOD at LT. Then, Peters ended his holdout, esentially destroying any cohesiveness we established in the pre-season. I know some will say, "Yeah, that was pre-season." But, I personally think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised at how well Walker holds down the LT position this year. He won't be a stud, but he is going to be a servicable LT.

 

Shovel

 

 

I agree with you.. Also I think the interior linemen may be more important than the LT. We face A LOT of 3-4 in this leauge and we have always allowed the NT to control our running game and get pressure up the middle on passing downs. I recall people saying Dockery was a Road Grader and would burry people.. I saw this rarely. Hopefully with the focuss on the trenches we will be able to give Trent 3-5 seconds to let the ball fly.....

[thebandit27]

Well Peters didn't want to be here and I think that the team realized that they needed to build the O-line with day one picks because they lost Peters. Once Peters is gone you have to start somewhere and they decided to go with the inside out. I think building with the draft was what they had to do. An O-line is a unit so the wholistic aspect may be the better rout to go

 

I've seen this mentioned several times, and it's just not true.

 

He did want to be here, he just also wanted to be paid $10M per year. It had NOTHING to do with this team or this organization, it was money, plain and simple.

[oddoublee]

To me, saying they WILL be a huge improvement is a major leap of faith. Two of them are rookies and haven't played a down in the anger at the pro level. Who knows how they will turn out. I'd guess that the odds favor them, but saying they WILL be better...

 

It's too much faith in the front office, IMHO. We all thought the front office were geniuses for picking up Dockery. Things don't always turn out as planned.

 

 

I agree 100% with this statement. I would say I am hopeful...not overly optimistic. 2 of our 5 never played a down in this league-the 3rd (Hangarter) was not even a starter in Carolina. He was their all purpose backup. So we dont even know if he is a legit full time starting center.

 

PLUS- all five have never played a single down together....this is gonna take time...and I dont think the o line rebuilding is close to finished.

[SteamRoller67]

Why should we expect to see results on the OL? Buffalo attempted the quick fix to build the OL through UFA (06-07) and it didn't work. They spent exactly zero picks on day one on OL. Now, they've essentially given up a huge contract in Peters for a first round pick with Wood. I really like Eric Wood, but finding quality starting guards is much easier than getting a top LT.

 

Someone will say Peters stunk in 08, and while he didn't have his finest season, he won't fall off the table like some of the haters think. He was a tremendous run blocker, and Walker's strength isn't his mobility because he's about 30 pounds overweight.

 

All in all, it is preposterous to believe changing both the tackle spots, which happen to be the two most difficult OL positions, while integrating a former backup and two rookie guards into the starting lineup is wishing upon a star.

 

Your optimism springs eternal.

The line is younger and nastier, which is all any Bills fan could hope for after failing to pick up numerous 3rd & 1's last year with Peters.....

[SteamRoller67]

Ok, maybe I'm getting old and my memory is starting to fail me... but I seem to see things differently than most of you. I thought our O-Line was really coming together nicely last year in pre-season. Walker looked GOOD at LT. Then, Peters ended his holdout, esentially destroying any cohesiveness we established in the pre-season. I know some will say, "Yeah, that was pre-season." But, I personally think a lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised at how well Walker holds down the LT position this year. He won't be a stud, but he is going to be a servicable LT.

 

Shovel

 

Nicely stated.....+1

[thebandit27]

I agree 100% with this statement. I would say I am hopeful...not overly optimistic. 2 of our 5 never played a down in this league-the 3rd (Hangarter) was not even a starter in Carolina. He was their all purpose backup. So we dont even know if he is a legit full time starting center.

 

PLUS- all five have never played a single down together....this is gonna take time...and I dont think the o line rebuilding is close to finished.

 

True they've never played together, but while I don't want to pick on you, I don't think it's very accurate to say that Hangartner wasn't a starter in Carolina when he started 27 games over the last 3 years. 27 out of 48 regular season games means he started over 56% of the time. Now he may not have been #1 on their depth chart the entire time he was starting, but it's not as though he hasn't proven that he can start in the league over the long-term. He has done so and has played well; if you get a chance, check out the Carolina-NYG game from last season when NFLN does their NFL Replay (week 16). He was really, really good in that game.