Will our o-line be better in the long term thanks to the Peters trade?

[Flbillsfan#1]

You are 100% right, the Peters trade may have built the Eagles O-Line for long term success.

As I posted before, the Eagles O line will consist of a NEW LT that gave up 11.5 SACKS last year, a NEW RT recovering from a torn ACL, a RG that missed most of the season with a BAD BACK. That sounds good to you? I like the Bills chances better than the Eagles to have the better O line at least for next year, then after next year Peters will hold out for a new contract.

[Bill from NYC]

Plus an early pick on an undersized DB guy that is too slow to play his college position in the NFL. Gotta love that too, bills FO sticking to their guns.

 

Amazing, isn't it?

[spartacus]

I think Peters should have taken the Lee Evans rout and negotiated while in camp and playing. I think the front office would have rewarded him with big money (around 10 million a year) if he would have show up and played well. If he played a whole year and than was not given a contract I would have supported his hold out. Like I said he is gone move on and let it go.

 

That's a real nice fantasy.

 

too bad Brandon told Peters in January of 2008 that under no circumstances would the Bills be re-doing his deal in 2008 since he had 3 years left.

 

Peters played all of 2007 at an elite level - the Bills should have been willing to talk in 2008,not slam the door in Peters face

[spartacus]

I say Yes it Will It will be rough going for a while especially in run blocking. Defenses will throw at the Bills different formations trying to confuse our O-linemen. I expect to see a lot of this against New England. Our guys won't know who to block for they will not have been taught what to do. I heard that last year when we played the Cardinals. Our guys did not know what to do on both sides of the ball. That games was a disaster and I expect the first game to be that way also.

 

Getting back to the question if this offensive line is better than last years and will it get better I still say yes. I like the make up of the players and the depth. It will just take time before they can excel is all. I think they will get better as the season progresses but this unit will not be playoff caliber till they learn to play together. That takes time no matter how good each player is. It is a Team sport and they have to learn to play together.

As a contrast to those eternal optimistic homers, here’s 2 fantasy sites which are not quite as high on the Bills OL.

 

 

http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/article....=428&page=2

 

#31 Buffalo Bills Rush Yards Per Game Rank Yards Per Game Pass Protection Rank Sacks Allowed Pass vs Run %

Projected Starters #14 115.1 #22 38 54 - 46

LT- Langston Walker LG- Kirk Chambers C- Geoff Hangartner RG- Eric Wood RT- Brad Butler FB- Corey McIntyre

Buffalo gave up 38 sacks last season and then dealt away Pro Bowl LT Jason Peters to Philadelphia in a pre-draft trade. Buffalo's offensive line is trending downwards, which could be bad news for fantasy stars RB Marshawn Lynch and WR Terrell Owens. Buffalo will be looking to rebuild its offensive line around its 1st round selection C Eric Wood out of Louisville. The bottom-line is that on paper Buffalo's offensive line appears to have taken a major step back from a season ago; fantasy owners should approach with caution.

 

http://footballguys.com/free.php

In their pre-season analysis, Footballguys.com gives the Bills OL an F and has them #32.

See the rankings at pg 40 and the Bills write-up at pg 36. They will do an update in August.

[VOR]

That's a real nice fantasy.

 

too bad Brandon told Peters in January of 2008 that under no circumstances would the Bills be re-doing his deal in 2008 since he had 3 years left.

 

Peters played all of 2007 at an elite level - the Bills should have been willing to talk in 2008,not slam the door in Peters face

Please provide a quote where Brandon said that "under no circumstance would the Bills be re-doing his deal in 2008 since he had 3 years left." It may exist, I just haven't seen it yet.

[spartacus]

Please provide a quote where Brandon said that "under no circumstance would the Bills be re-doing his deal in 2008 since he had 3 years left." It may exist, I just haven't seen it yet.

He finally admitted it when they traded Peters

 

I'm sure you can find the cite if you look.

[VOR]

He finally admitted it when they traded Peters

 

I'm sure you can find the cite if you look.

I'm not sure I can. Hence the reason I asked you to find it, since you obviously think you saw it.

[BillsVet]

Vet,

 

The reason why I dont get in a tizzy when folks dont agree with my views on Peters is because frankly I feel your pain when it comes to this damn teams inability to find the right formula of players to biuld a winning attitude.

 

I thought we might have found it the first half of last year.....then things fell apart and we were right back to square one again.......

 

I'm just tired of losing. And when you look south into PA and see a team that is winning, it's even worse. Bills fans deserve better, and the hype won't be enough forever. I'm not impressed with how they handle personnel, and it smacks of amateurish methods to me.

 

I'll agree to disagree on the Peters situation, but it's over and Buffalo ain't getting him back.

 

 

The Bills are a franchise you root for simply because they are your team. That's about it. To think this group will compete for a title ever again is folly, but you root nevertheless. It's a second tier organization in a fourth tier market, never going anywhere.. But they will field a team and compete. So that's good enough for rooting purposes. Silly rationale, I know, but its all we have.

 

When people lower expectations just because the team hasn't won consistently since the 90s, it bothers me. Small market teams are winning, but they have proven front offices which can operate without the financial resources of a Dallas, Washington, or New York team. It just takes people who are ahead of the curve.

 

If you're a fan and aren't upset, so be it. I can't agree with being a fan and not demanding some form of success. All I've looked for is a playoff team, not necessarily one that advances deep into the post-season. IMO, that's reasonable after a decade of futility.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'm just tired of losing. And when you look south into PA and see a team that is winning, it's even worse. Bills fans deserve better, and the hype won't be enough forever. I'm not impressed with how they handle personnel, and it smacks of amateurish methods to me.

You're apparently forgetting about all the championships, Hall-of-Fame caliber superstars, brilliant and cutting-edge coaching, awesome draft hit rate, and deft cap management the Bills have schooled the rest of the NFL on the last decade or so.

[billsfan89]

That's a real nice fantasy.

 

too bad Brandon told Peters in January of 2008 that under no circumstances would the Bills be re-doing his deal in 2008 since he had 3 years left.

 

Peters played all of 2007 at an elite level - the Bills should have been willing to talk in 2008,not slam the door in Peters face

 

Well no one has ever changed his mind after saying a definitive statement. If Peters played and demanded a new contract than I think he is more of a sympathetic figure to the fans, the media, and the teammates.. I remember reading an article (by Tim Graham I think) that said that none of Peters teammates were supporting his holdout and they all wished he would have played and negotiated at the same time.

 

If Peters anchored the line at the same level he did in 2007 in 2008 than I think they would have extended him at a really nice price. Instead he risked hurting his value by playing poorly at first and than playing at a barely above average level when he got back in shape.

 

I think the reason they redid Evans deal is because they wanted to set a precedent where they were willing to renegotiate contracts as long as the players were playing. Peters didn't get a deal and Evans did. The front office would have almost been forced to give Peters the deal he sought.

[billsfan89]

As a contrast to those eternal optimistic homers, here’s 2 fantasy sites which are not quite as high on the Bills OL.

 

 

http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/article....=428&page=2

 

#31 Buffalo Bills Rush Yards Per Game Rank Yards Per Game Pass Protection Rank Sacks Allowed Pass vs Run %

Projected Starters #14 115.1 #22 38 54 - 46

LT- Langston Walker LG- Kirk Chambers C- Geoff Hangartner RG- Eric Wood RT- Brad Butler FB- Corey McIntyre

Buffalo gave up 38 sacks last season and then dealt away Pro Bowl LT Jason Peters to Philadelphia in a pre-draft trade. Buffalo's offensive line is trending downwards, which could be bad news for fantasy stars RB Marshawn Lynch and WR Terrell Owens. Buffalo will be looking to rebuild its offensive line around its 1st round selection C Eric Wood out of Louisville. The bottom-line is that on paper Buffalo's offensive line appears to have taken a major step back from a season ago; fantasy owners should approach with caution.

 

http://footballguys.com/free.php

In their pre-season analysis, Footballguys.com gives the Bills OL an F and has them #32.

See the rankings at pg 40 and the Bills write-up at pg 36. They will do an update in August.

 

There is no doubt in my mind we could lose anywhere between 1-3 games because of our o-line. But I think that they will improve in the latter half of the season. You have to walk before you can run and thats all the Bills can do right now. I think this unit will go into next season as a improving unit that will turn into a strength.

[spartacus]

Well no one has ever changed his mind after saying a definitive statement. If Peters played and demanded a new contract than I think he is more of a sympathetic figure to the fans, the media, and the teammates.. I remember reading an article (by Tim Graham I think) that said that none of Peters teammates were supporting his holdout and they all wished he would have played and negotiated at the same time.

 

If Peters anchored the line at the same level he did in 2007 in 2008 than I think they would have extended him at a really nice price. Instead he risked hurting his value by playing poorly at first and than playing at a barely above average level when he got back in shape.

 

I think the reason they redid Evans deal is because they wanted to set a precedent where they were willing to renegotiate contracts as long as the players were playing. Peters didn't get a deal and Evans did. The front office would have almost been forced to give Peters the deal he sought.

 

Brandon was not giving Peters a new contract in 2008 no matter what Peters did.

 

that's what Brandon told Peters - and that's why Peters held out

 

stop with the nonsense that he would have gotten a new deal if he just showed up

[VOR]

Brandon was not giving Peters a new contract in 2008 no matter what Peters did.

 

that's what Brandon told Peters - and that's why Peters held out

 

stop with the nonsense that he would have gotten a new deal if he just showed up

Produce the quote. Otherwise it's "misremembering" on your part.

[billsfan89]

Brandon was not giving Peters a new contract in 2008 no matter what Peters did.

 

that's what Brandon told Peters - and that's why Peters held out

 

stop with the nonsense that he would have gotten a new deal if he just showed up

 

 

Its not the idea that he would have gotten a new deal if he had shown up but he would have been a better position from a bargaining perspective. I know it seems like holding out makes you stronger in your negotiating position but if a front office tells you we won't renegotiate and you don't show up than immediately the fans, the team, and the media turn against you.

 

If you show up and tell the media that I am going to play but I want a new deal feeling I have out played my old one. Immidately you get the fans and media on your side (for the most part I think most fans would be saying reward the guy he could have held out) and you keep your teammates on your side.

 

If Peters took the Evans rout he would have gotten an extension sometime during the season. I understand he wanted a new deal before the year started but you take a big risk holding out and if your agent told you that you have a bad chance of getting an extension before the season starts if you hold out. OR you could play and have a very good chance of getting your deal during the season.

 

I just think Peters got some bad advice from his agent who filled his head with the idea that the Bills were going to give in if he held out. He and his agent got a terrible reed on the situation. Instead of taking the traditional hold and they will miss you route they should have taken the less conventional route.

[thebandit27]

If our guys grow into solid performers/all pro almost, then they will leave in free agency because the Bills will not pay the freight (in general).. there is no "long term" with this franchise as they are in perpetual rebuilding mode.

 

 

The Bills are a franchise you root for simply because they are your team. That's about it. To think this group will compete for a title ever again is folly, but you root nevertheless. It's a second tier organization in a fourth tier market, never going anywhere.. But they will field a team and compete. So that's good enough for rooting purposes. Silly rationale, I know, but its all we have.

 

 

John, a team solely made up of players who WANT to be on THIS franchise (above all others) would win about 1 game. The current Bills organization and WNY is the last place the average NFL rock star player wants to be. Third tier franchises get tier 3 players. Hell, Crowell left for a crappy 1 year deal rather than stay in WNY. TO came because he had nowhere else to go.

 

 

wow. you are a miserable dude.

[billsfan89]

If our guys grow into solid performers/all pro almost, then they will leave in free agency because the Bills will not pay the freight (in general).. there is no "long term" with this franchise as they are in perpetual rebuilding mode.

 

Guards, Centers, and Right Tackles don't cost any where near what LT's cost. A top tier or even very good LT cost between 7.5-12 million a year. If you look at the Giants O-line they don't really cost that much. Rich Seubert makes around like 3 million a year. Chris Snee makes 4.5 million. Shaun O'Hara makes 2.7 million a year. The most expensive guy on the Giants line is Kareem McKenzie who makes 5.2 million a year. A total cost of those 4 players is around 15 million total. Even the LT David Diehl makes 5.1 million a year.

 

I think the Bills can afford those kind of players. I mean Peters got around 10.5 million a year for only 4 million more a year the Giants field 4/5's of their line. I find it hard to believe that if Butler develops into a good RT they won't shell out 4.5 to 5.5 million a year for him. I doubt that if Wood and Levitre develop into a pair of good guards they won't shell out 4 to 5 million a year for them. These guys are in the Bills price range.

[spartacus]

Its not the idea that he would have gotten a new deal if he had shown up but he would have been a better position from a bargaining perspective. I know it seems like holding out makes you stronger in your negotiating position but if a front office tells you we won't renegotiate and you don't show up than immediately the fans, the team, and the media turn against you.

 

If you show up and tell the media that I am going to play but I want a new deal feeling I have out played my old one. Immidately you get the fans and media on your side (for the most part I think most fans would be saying reward the guy he could have held out) and you keep your teammates on your side.

 

If Peters took the Evans rout he would have gotten an extension sometime during the season. I understand he wanted a new deal before the year started but you take a big risk holding out and if your agent told you that you have a bad chance of getting an extension before the season starts if you hold out. OR you could play and have a very good chance of getting your deal during the season.

 

I just think Peters got some bad advice from his agent who filled his head with the idea that the Bills were going to give in if he held out. He and his agent got a terrible reed on the situation. Instead of taking the traditional hold and they will miss you route they should have taken the less conventional route.

 

You are completely wrong

 

Brandon drew a line in the sand - Peters would get no new deal in 2008 (before, during or after the season)- no matter what he did.

 

so stop with the nonsense that by showing up and playing nice he would have got a pay raise in 2008.

 

you say he got bad advice --

 

seems Peters made out like a bandit - he got the big contract he wanted and he now plays on a Super Bowl contender.

by holding out in 2008, he called the Bills bluff. they folded in 2009 and gave him away.

 

how is it HE got bad advice???

 

as a Bills fan, you may not like the outcome - but the agent works for Peters, not the fans

[vincec]

I think that too much is being made of the OL situation. This offense will play as well as Trent Edwards does. With TO, Evans, Reed, Parish, etc. the Bills are going to look at passing to open things up in the running game. Good quick reads by the QB and short drops will be the goal. If we can back the defenses off of the line and keep them off balance, the Bills will be fine. Look at what Kurt Warner did with Arizona last year. They didn't have a strong OL.

[BillsVet]

I think that too much is being made of the OL situation. This offense will play as well as Trent Edwards does. With TO, Evans, Reed, Parish, etc. the Bills are going to look at passing to open things up in the running game. Good quick reads by the QB and short drops will be the goal. If we can back the defenses off of the line and keep them off balance, the Bills will be fine. Look at what Kurt Warner did with Arizona last year. They didn't have a strong OL.

 

A successful offense needs a line which provides their QB with time. The more time, the greater chance for success. Edwards has the skill players to succeed, but it's debatable whether or not the OL is capable to keep him off his back. Right now it's speculation, but I'm not comfortable with two new tackles, rookies starting at the guards, and a new center.

 

Edwards needs to play better, but don't underestimate how his coaches maximize his abilities. Some of the Bills game-plans last season were severely lacking and unimaginative.

 

Arizona's QB is a veteran, two time NFL MVP and SB winner. Edwards is not in his category yet, and it there's no comparison to make there. Besides, they had perhaps the best receiving tandem in the NFL last season. Comparing Todd Haley's offense to Turk Schonert is also laughable.

[vincec]

A successful offense needs a line which provides their QB with time. The more time, the greater chance for success. Edwards has the skill players to succeed, but it's debatable whether or not the OL is capable to keep him off his back. Right now it's speculation, but I'm not comfortable with two new tackles, rookies starting at the guards, and a new center.

 

Edwards needs to play better, but don't underestimate how his coaches maximize his abilities. Some of the Bills game-plans last season were severely lacking and unimaginative.

 

Arizona's QB is a veteran, two time NFL MVP and SB winner. Edwards is not in his category yet, and it there's no comparison to make there. Besides, they had perhaps the best receiving tandem in the NFL last season. Comparing Todd Haley's offense to Turk Schonert is also laughable.

All I am saying is that it's not all about the OL. Buffalo has enough talent on offense to perform well with just average play from the OL. They don't have to dominate.

 

BTW- Arizona was 8-8 the year before last, with essentially the same personnel and coaching staff that they had last year. I wonder how "laughable" comparison would've been in 2007. Let's give Schonert a chance with a little talent to work with.