Will our o-line be better in the long term thanks to the Peters trade?

[Kenwick]

I say Yes it Will It will be rough going for a while especially in run blocking. Defenses will throw at the Bills different formations trying to confuse our O-linemen. I expect to see a lot of this against New England. Our guys won't know who to block for they will not have been taught what to do. I heard that last year when we played the Cardinals. Our guys did not know what to do on both sides of the ball. That games was a disaster and I expect the first game to be that way also.

 

Getting back to the question if this offensive line is better than last years and will it get better I still say yes. I like the make up of the players and the depth. It will just take time before they can excel is all. I think they will get better as the season progresses but this unit will not be playoff caliber till they learn to play together. That takes time no matter how good each player is. It is a Team sport and they have to learn to play together.

[oddoublee]

True they've never played together, but while I don't want to pick on you, I don't think it's very accurate to say that Hangartner wasn't a starter in Carolina when he started 27 games over the last 3 years. 27 out of 48 regular season games means he started over 56% of the time. Now he may not have been #1 on their depth chart the entire time he was starting, but it's not as though he hasn't proven that he can start in the league over the long-term. He has done so and has played well; if you get a chance, check out the Carolina-NYG game from last season when NFLN does their NFL Replay (week 16). He was really, really good in that game.

 

no arguments here. well aware he played a lot, and I should have pointed that out-but he was a spot fill starter-carolina dealt with a lot of injuries. not saying he is bad...none of us know. just saying we didnt go out and sign a sure fire thing.

but i hear what you are saying

[BuffaloBill]

Just a disclaimer this isn't a Peters thread this is more of a thread looking at how the O-line was handled after the deal was done.

 

It will be two years before we know if the Peters trade was a good one or bad one. While I like the Bills draft I still say the odds ae that this trade will not work out in Buffalo's favor. In either case it will take a bit of luck for this deal to go the Bills way. Rookies stuggle to adjust, football is a game where injuries happen and sometimes players just go bust.

[John from Riverside]

I just think it is interesting that folks on this board (well a lot anyway) have been clamoring for the bills to do the RIGHT thing and address their lines both offensive and defensive......

 

Then they go and do that and there are still complaints. I guess it is the nature of the beast..until the team actually starts winning people will blame the team no mater what they do.

[spartacus]

I just think it is interesting that folks on this board (well a lot anyway) have been clamoring for the bills to do the RIGHT thing and address their lines both offensive and defensive......

 

Then they go and do that and there are still complaints. I guess it is the nature of the beast..until the team actually starts winning people will blame the team no mater what they do.

The RIGHT thing would have been to draft the rookies AND keep the ProBowl LT.

 

they should have extended him last year before they created the mess they ended up with. Pretending Walker can play LT is questionable at best.

 

 

on the defensive side, their front 7 still is lacking size and muscle and they did nothing to improve their inability to stop the run.

they deserve the blame they get just by keeping Keith Ellison as their starting LB.

[John from Riverside]

Spartacus,

 

- It is debatable wheter or not keeping Peters was the right thing......dont know if I want a LT thinking about his salary every time he makes a mistake and say "oh well" would I like to have kept a pro bowl caliber LT on the team? Of course....I am just not so sure that is what we would have gotten.

 

- I am not keen on Langston playing the LT spot not because I dont think he can do it but because I thought he had solidified the RT side. I have movement for the sake of movement.

 

- We got Stroud last year to add muscle.....the thing that hurts us here is McCargo making strides then falling off the face of the earth last year. I am praying that Jon McCargo finds his game. If he does then we are set in the middle.

 

- I dont think there is any way Ellison starts this year. I bet Bowen takes it.

[Whites Bay]

Here's what is going to happen on the first Monday Night Football game.

 

Ready?

 

The AntiChrist Belichump will run the No-Huddle Offense on the Bills.

 

Watch for it, and remember this post.

 

"Fear is the Mother of Violence" - Peter Gabriel

[BillsVet]

I just think it is interesting that folks on this board (well a lot anyway) have been clamoring for the bills to do the RIGHT thing and address their lines both offensive and defensive......

 

Then they go and do that and there are still complaints. I guess it is the nature of the beast..until the team actually starts winning people will blame the team no mater what they do.

 

Any team can address a position of need, but finding the right personnel is not this franchise's strong suit. They answer personnel issues with strange ways. It's not merely addressing a problem, it's doing it with the right solution.

 

Buffalo had one above average OL, and that was Peters. The others were average to below average, and that was after three years of rebuilding. So they deal their top OL for a low first, move some guys around, get two highly touted rookies, and sign an unproven UFA. So yes, they addressed parts of the OL. We'll see if they did the right thing.

 

My whole point has been that Buffalo does not have proven talent evaluators to find top players. They swing and miss far too often in UFA and the draft. For the latter, they've spent far too many picks on non-lineman. It took them four off-seasons to finally admit they'd screwed up on the OL and DL, outside of Stroud.

 

Guess I'm being negative again, but hope ain't enough for me. If the team doesn't get into the playoffs this season, the entire organization should be gutted. Coach, GM, Pro Personnel, Amateur Scouting, Overdorf, everyone.

[VJ91]

....the Peters trade may have built this line for long term success....

 

You are 100% right, the Peters trade may have built the Eagles O-Line for long term success.

[John from Riverside]

Any team can address a position of need, but finding the right personnel is not this franchise's strong suit. They answer personnel issues with strange ways. It's not merely addressing a problem, it's doing it with the right solution.

 

Buffalo had one above average OL, and that was Peters. The others were average to below average, and that was after three years of rebuilding. So they deal their top OL for a low first, move some guys around, get two highly touted rookies, and sign an unproven UFA. So yes, they addressed parts of the OL. We'll see if they did the right thing.

 

My whole point has been that Buffalo does not have proven talent evaluators to find top players. They swing and miss far too often in UFA and the draft. For the latter, they've spent far too many picks on non-lineman. It took them four off-seasons to finally admit they'd screwed up on the OL and DL, outside of Stroud.

 

Guess I'm being negative again, but hope ain't enough for me. If the team doesn't get into the playoffs this season, the entire organization should be gutted. Coach, GM, Pro Personnel, Amateur Scouting, Overdorf, everyone.

 

Vet,

 

The reason why I dont get in a tizzy when folks dont agree with my views on Peters is because frankly I feel your pain when it comes to this damn teams inability to find the right formula of players to biuld a winning attitude.

 

I thought we might have found it the first half of last year.....then things fell apart and we were right back to square one again.......

 

But I do know this.....we will not find it with a malcontent ungrateful player who was a undrafted free agent TE that our team BIULT into a pro bowl left tackle......maybe if our team was a winning team to begin with (like say....the patriots?) we find a way to keep this malcontent from erupting....maybe not.

 

But that is not the state of the team.....we are like a baby that needs to learn to crawl in a positive direction before it can walk.....players have to WANT to be here......want to be leaders on this team......Jason Peters is not that player.

 

I dont think Langston is the answer......but I think thaty he at least is professional enough to do his best while we work things out......I do think that we greatly improved some areas on our lines that were sorely lacking.

 

We will see I guess.

[zazie]

Vet,

 

The reason why I dont get in a tizzy when folks dont agree with my views on Peters is because frankly I feel your pain when it comes to this damn teams inability to find the right formula of players to biuld a winning attitude.

 

I thought we might have found it the first half of last year.....then things fell apart and we were right back to square one again.......

 

But I do know this.....we will not find it with a malcontent ungrateful player who was a undrafted free agent TE that our team BIULT into a pro bowl left tackle......maybe if our team was a winning team to begin with (like say....the patriots?) we find a way to keep this malcontent from erupting....maybe not.

 

But that is not the state of the team.....we are like a baby that needs to learn to crawl in a positive direction before it can walk.....players have to WANT to be here......want to be leaders on this team......Jason Peters is not that player.

 

I dont think Langston is the answer......but I think thaty he at least is professional enough to do his best while we work things out......I do think that we greatly improved some areas on our lines that were sorely lacking.

 

 

Actually I felt Peters handled it in a very professional way. He did not whine to the media, he did nothing but follow his agents advice. He was being underpaid, that is fact. He did what you do with your lawyer or accountant - listen to their professional advice and heed it.

 

He was not a B word about it at all which I thought was laudable.

 

And his agent turned out to have played it perfectly for him.

 

To the benefit of the Eagles and our detriment.

 

But I do not see him as a malcontent or bad guy.

 

 

 

 

We will see I guess.

[zazie]

Actually I felt Peters handled it in a very professional way. He did not whine to the media, he did nothing but follow his agents advice. He was being underpaid, that is fact. He did what you do with your lawyer or accountant - listen to their professional advice and heed it.

 

He was not a B word about it at all which I thought was laudable.

 

And his agent turned out to have played it perfectly for him.

 

To the benefit of the Eagles and our detriment.

 

But I do not see him as a malcontent or bad guy.

[billsfan89]

Actually I felt Peters handled it in a very professional way. He did not whine to the media, he did nothing but follow his agents advice. He was being underpaid, that is fact. He did what you do with your lawyer or accountant - listen to their professional advice and heed it.

 

He was not a B word about it at all which I thought was laudable.

 

And his agent turned out to have played it perfectly for him.

 

To the benefit of the Eagles and our detriment.

 

But I do not see him as a malcontent or bad guy.

 

Well the point of this thread was not to wounder if what the Bills or Peters did was right. I guess my point was did the whole change in philosophy of how to build an offensive line would be a benefit to the long term growth of the offensive line. I like the idea of setting 4 out of 5 positions of the offensive line for the next 5 years and than trying to find that last piece.

 

Like it or not Peters is gone and the Bills had to rebuild the o-line and I think they took the right approach. They didn't try to find a replacement in the draft or free agency (a guy like Levi Jones) they spent some of their resources on getting the rest of the line in order and than putting Walker in as a stop gap for this year.

 

I think Peters should have taken the Lee Evans rout and negotiated while in camp and playing. I think the front office would have rewarded him with big money (around 10 million a year) if he would have show up and played well. If he played a whole year and than was not given a contract I would have supported his hold out. Like I said he is gone move on and let it go.

[billsfan89]

Vet,

 

The reason why I dont get in a tizzy when folks dont agree with my views on Peters is because frankly I feel your pain when it comes to this damn teams inability to find the right formula of players to biuld a winning attitude.

 

I thought we might have found it the first half of last year.....then things fell apart and we were right back to square one again.......

 

But I do know this.....we will not find it with a malcontent ungrateful player who was a undrafted free agent TE that our team BIULT into a pro bowl left tackle......maybe if our team was a winning team to begin with (like say....the patriots?) we find a way to keep this malcontent from erupting....maybe not.

 

But that is not the state of the team.....we are like a baby that needs to learn to crawl in a positive direction before it can walk.....players have to WANT to be here......want to be leaders on this team......Jason Peters is not that player.

 

I dont think Langston is the answer......but I think thaty he at least is professional enough to do his best while we work things out......I do think that we greatly improved some areas on our lines that were sorely lacking.

 

We will see I guess.

 

Good post Another thing I would like to have pointed out is that its not like Peters was the last piece to the offensive line. Going into this offseason we needed a Center and a Left Guard. We also didn't have a long term solution at RT. You could have also made a case that our line had a RG who was a better fit a RT. Even if Peters was playing at all cylinders our line was far from a complete product. So to act like handing Peters a big contract was a panacea to our offensive line issues is just not using ones head.

 

I think that once those rookies gel with Hangardner and Butler gets accustomed to RT we will see the line emerge as a unit rather than a group of guys thrown together to try and fill five spots. Even if we don't see the benefits this year I think we will see the benefits next season.

[8-8 Forever?]

Just a disclaimer this isn't a Peters thread this is more of a thread looking at how the O-line was handled after the deal was done.

 

Eric Wood and Andy Levitre were added in response to the Dockery cutting and the Trade of Peters. Brad Butler was shifted to Right tackle in order to move Walker to Peters old spot. Before the Peters trade we signed Hangartner to fill out the Center spot. So our O-line is currently projected to be from left to right (LT) Langston Walker (LG) Andy Levitre (Center) Hangartner (RG) Eric Wood (RT) Brad Butler.

 

Four of those guys are really young Hangartner is 27, Butler is 26 (by seasons end he will be 26) and Wood and Levitre are both rookies. These guys once give two seasons to gel will all still be under 30. None of those guys will cost any where near what Peters would have. So better for the cap in the long run to keep these guys with the Bills.

 

These guys remind me of the way the Giants offensive line was built about four years ago. They drafted a bunch of guards and centers kept them together and added Kareem McKenzie to round out the line. The LT's the Giants have had in recent years haven't been great just solid guys who can hold down the spot; Petitgout was a solid guy but not really a top five guy at his best he was just outside the top ten LT's in the league.

 

David Diehl isn't a top ten LT but he is a solid guy who plays well with the rest of his offensive line and run blocks very well and pass blocks well enough. My point is if the Bills through the draft or free agency can find a solid LT they can keep the rest of the line in tact and build a unit much like the Giants O-line. The Peters trade may have built this line for long term success.

If our guys grow into solid performers/all pro almost, then they will leave in free agency because the Bills will not pay the freight (in general).. there is no "long term" with this franchise as they are in perpetual rebuilding mode.

[8-8 Forever?]

Any team can address a position of need, but finding the right personnel is not this franchise's strong suit. They answer personnel issues with strange ways. It's not merely addressing a problem, it's doing it with the right solution.

 

Buffalo had one above average OL, and that was Peters. The others were average to below average, and that was after three years of rebuilding. So they deal their top OL for a low first, move some guys around, get two highly touted rookies, and sign an unproven UFA. So yes, they addressed parts of the OL. We'll see if they did the right thing.

 

My whole point has been that Buffalo does not have proven talent evaluators to find top players. They swing and miss far too often in UFA and the draft. For the latter, they've spent far too many picks on non-lineman. It took them four off-seasons to finally admit they'd screwed up on the OL and DL, outside of Stroud.

 

Guess I'm being negative again, but hope ain't enough for me. If the team doesn't get into the playoffs this season, the entire organization should be gutted. Coach, GM, Pro Personnel, Amateur Scouting, Overdorf, everyone.

 

The Bills are a franchise you root for simply because they are your team. That's about it. To think this group will compete for a title ever again is folly, but you root nevertheless. It's a second tier organization in a fourth tier market, never going anywhere.. But they will field a team and compete. So that's good enough for rooting purposes. Silly rationale, I know, but its all we have.

[8-8 Forever?]

Vet,

 

The reason why I dont get in a tizzy when folks dont agree with my views on Peters is because frankly I feel your pain when it comes to this damn teams inability to find the right formula of players to biuld a winning attitude.

 

I thought we might have found it the first half of last year.....then things fell apart and we were right back to square one again.......

 

But I do know this.....we will not find it with a malcontent ungrateful player who was a undrafted free agent TE that our team BIULT into a pro bowl left tackle......maybe if our team was a winning team to begin with (like say....the patriots?) we find a way to keep this malcontent from erupting....maybe not.

 

But that is not the state of the team.....we are like a baby that needs to learn to crawl in a positive direction before it can walk.....players have to WANT to be here......want to be leaders on this team......Jason Peters is not that player.

 

I dont think Langston is the answer......but I think thaty he at least is professional enough to do his best while we work things out......I do think that we greatly improved some areas on our lines that were sorely lacking.

 

We will see I guess.

 

John, a team solely made up of players who WANT to be on THIS franchise (above all others) would win about 1 game. The current Bills organization and WNY is the last place the average NFL rock star player wants to be. Third tier franchises get tier 3 players. Hell, Crowell left for a crappy 1 year deal rather than stay in WNY. TO came because he had nowhere else to go.

[toddgurley]

I think that is why they are going with the no huddle. My idea is that the coaching staff hopes that blitzing the line will be harder when the offense is going no huddle. And if you blitz the line than it opens up our wide receivers and Trent can see it better.

 

 

yup yup you are right. Also to run to no huddle you need a smart center to call the o-line blocking schemes. We have Hangartner, who scored like a 47 on the wonderlic test I believe. Thats one smart center-

[mousetrap08]

I would say there is a good chance the deal will work out well for us.

 

The overall talent on the OL never played very well the last 3 years and it was time to do something.

 

Granted, quality LT's are difficult to find but I think the overall toughness has improved

Have to say I totaly agree with you.I think the Bills will miss Peters but not as much as every one thought,This is a loss probilty on the same line as loseing Nate Clemons it will hurt but the team will be fine.This line is'nt going to be perfect this year but in the long run I think they have a good chance to become a very good one.

[Sisyphean Bills]

It's not impossible that the 100% brand new line will struggle and, coaching for their jobs, things could get bugutley quick.