Gordio Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Gordio, I am not going to get into the NFL thing because that really isn't even part of my original post....but not getting offered by a Div 1 school really has nothing to do with talent level it has to do with academics.... He has been visiting Div I AA and NAIA schools and he didn't just show up and ask to look at the gym....he was invited. Then when he made it to the Max Preps All American Camp invite list (happening in July) things really started picking up. The Max Preps holds combines all over the US throughout the year...then they invite the top 30 percent performers of those camps to the All American combine. Which is why its tearing my heart out....they ARE interested but will sour when they see his grades for this year. The only point I was trying to make was that if he is talented enough, a Div 1a or Div 1aa school would find a way to make it happen, grades be damned. The NFL thing was really not directed towards you as you are right, you never once mentioned the letters NFL. It was directed towards Ans, he stated that it is not impossible for your son to play in the NFL & I simply said because he was not recruited by a D 1 program that yes it is or at least an extreme long shot. I am going to say something without fully knowing the situation or ever seeing your son play football, but it seems like from your other posts about your son that there is something always against him. The coaches do not like him, there using him at the wrong position, the area where your from likes a kid from the other side of town better, he spends to much time with the girls(I thought all football players do that?), his grades are not good enough, even though a 2.7 GPA is a borderline B/B-. You said it yourself he is undersized. Maybe he is just not good enough to play college football. There is no shame in that, it sounded like he a had a very good career. Maybe that is where it ends. I have a son too, & sometime I catch myself dreaming of the day where he signs his National Letter of Intent to play football at some college. I know I have a better chance of winning the lottery, but that is what dads do with their sons I guess. Anyways, best of luck to you & your son.
BuffaloBud Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 There are many paths, John. I know you understand that. And I also think I understand why you are disappointed. He could have made this much easier on himself. But you also understand that this isn't the end of the road for him, rather it is still very much in the early stages. Maybe he's one of us who needs to be knocked down a little to be built up. Perhaps this actually turns out to be the better option for him. Given the financial implications, it may be better for the family, too. He will be local, and you can keep your eye on things. Maybe he just isn't quite ready to make the move to a big school, and a bigger football program. He (and you) are fortunate to have a knowledgeable and understanding school counselor for advice. Whether or not he is destined to play football at another level is still to be seen. The most important thing is he mature, be a good person, learn and prepare himself for the world, with or without football. John - I'm somewhat of the poster child for Dean's last comment. I graduated out of HS in the top 15% of my class of ~400. Thought I knew stuff. Applied to RIT, Syracuse, Pitt, and Cincy for engineering. Accepted to RIT. Boy, did reality hit - hard. I couldn't study my way out of a paper bag with both ends open. Darn near flunked out. Made a deal with school if I went JUCO route (ECC) they would let me back in - on probation. Learned how to study and darn near aced ECC while working and being an unpaid asst coach for 2 sports at old HS. Went back to RIT and struggled again. Realized that I did not have the aptitude for theory - practical was my game. Finished with Mech Eng Tech degree. Signed on at TI making more than my old man. 20+ yrs, 2 layoffs, 4 employers , and 2 moves later I am in a good place. Point here is just because this particular door closes not all are. Many are still open. Look at the options at D2 or D3. I hear / talk to more people that played sports at that level and are still tight with their teammates than at the D1 level and are very successful at what they do. I appreciate your disappointment, but don't be. Encourage him, kick him in the butt when he needs it. In the end, it is your son that will set the direction for his life. You and your wife can only set the foundation. There are many paths, John. I know you understand that. And I also think I understand why you are disappointed. He could have made this much easier on himself. But you also understand that this isn't the end of the road for him, rather it is still very much in the early stages. Maybe he's one of us who needs to be knocked down a little to be built up. Perhaps this actually turns out to be the better option for him. Given the financial implications, it may be better for the family, too. He will be local, and you can keep your eye on things. Maybe he just isn't quite ready to make the move to a big school, and a bigger football program. He (and you) are fortunate to have a knowledgeable and understanding school counselor for advice. Whether or not he is destined to play football at another level is still to be seen. The most important thing is he mature, be a good person, learn and prepare himself for the world, with or without football.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 Gordio's point was that if the kid was talented enough to play at the D-I level, then the schools are going to find a way to get him in. GPA is a nice way of saying that the talent level isn't there. Sorry Ramius that is crap...... I realize that you might not understand NCAA regulations but a blanket statement that if a student athlete doesn't have the grades and doesn't make it to a Div I school then they were never a good player is just not an educated response......
John Adams Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Sorry Ramius that is crap...... I realize that you might not understand NCAA regulations but a blanket statement that if a student athlete doesn't have the grades and doesn't make it to a Div I school then they were never a good player is just not an educated response...... He's pretty close to right. If a kid is a straight F student with talent, he's in trouble. If he's got a ton of Cs and some Ds, the schools find a way with a stud player. Michael Oher couldn't spell cat and he went to a D-I school. (Read The Blind Side for more on Oher.) If a kid is good enough on the field, schools will bend over backwards to get him on the field. Sure, there are requirements to be met. But there are also easier ways to meet them than in the school he goes to every day. In Oher's case, he took a load of online courses in a Summer--with a tutor--so he could play at Ole Miss.
ans4e64 Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Sorry Ramius that is crap...... I realize that you might not understand NCAA regulations but a blanket statement that if a student athlete doesn't have the grades and doesn't make it to a Div I school then they were never a good player is just not an educated response...... How do you explain all the thugs that are at some of the college programs around the country and can't speak a full sentence getting into those top flight universities? They certainly didn't have the grades. Schools will find a way if they really want you. When I was in HS our RB was very, very good. In the fall of our senior year he was offered scholarships to USC, ND, PSU.. almost any school you could think of. He gave up going to class and doing homework for the rest of the year, flunked the SAT's, and all the schools recinded their offers. He was very good, but not good enough to make the schools bend over backwards for him. Probably similar to your son's situation, except definitely nowhere near as high as a 2.7.
The Dean Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 He's pretty close to right. If a kid is a straight F student with talent, he's in trouble. If he's got a ton of Cs and some Ds, the schools find a way with a stud player. Michael Oher couldn't spell cat and he went to a D-I school. (Read The Blind Side for more on Oher.) If a kid is good enough on the field, schools will bend over backwards to get him on the field. Sure, there are requirements to be met. But there are also easier ways to meet them than in the school he goes to every day. In Oher's case, he took a load of online courses in a Summer--with a tutor--so he could play at Ole Miss. I don't think all this stuff is really that relevant to the root of John's troubles, but since it is out there... Yes if you are a SPECTACULAR talent, who will definitely make a Div 1 roster and be a star, then many football factory schools will find a way to let you in. The groundwork for that usually starts well before college admissions time, if I had to venture a guess. I'm guessing most of those kids have been identified early and "handled" so that everything is taken care of, and they work every angle to get tests marked as passed, and all available resources at play for when college entry time comes around. (Street agents and "family friends" make careers getting these kids into college, and the pros. They are the fixers.) But it's a little bit different for a bright and athletic kid, looking at Div II or III, who has an outside shot at something if he develops properly, grows a bit, gets coached up, etc. Then he gets distracted and lets his grades go into the dumper. Sure he'd probably make the Div II squad, maybe even start, one day, but that isn't the kind of guy they go out of the way to bend the rules for. But that kind of kid sometimes finds his way to the pros. It's a long shot, but it is a shot that sometimes pays off. That kid needs a good coach and a real tutor, not a fixer.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 How do you explain all the thugs that are at some of the college programs around the country and can't speak a full sentence getting into those top flight universities? They certainly didn't have the grades. Schools will find a way if they really want you. When I was in HS our RB was very, very good. In the fall of our senior year he was offered scholarships to USC, ND, PSU.. almost any school you could think of. He gave up going to class and doing homework for the rest of the year, flunked the SAT's, and all the schools recinded their offers. He was very good, but not good enough to make the schools bend over backwards for him. Probably similar to your son's situation, except definitely nowhere near as high as a 2.7. Ans....the way it was explained to me the 2.7 is a little deceiving. They include all of his classes like gym and volleyball and home ec...you know cake classes. He is WAY lower in his CORE classes that the UC systems look at....more like at a 2.1 By the way there seems to be some kind of disconnect here....My son is not a top player or nationally ranked.....what people are failing to understand is that you can still be a very good player and not be a KNOWN player that teams will bend over backwards (I dont base my analysis on programs bending rules to get my son in...to me that is fools gold I base it on him actually being eligible. So should just the very top players or well known players from prominant high schools be the only ones who are "good enough"? How would you fill out your roster? The UC system schools in our area and similar requirement schools would be hard to get into now according to his school advisor....but there are private schools in the area that still might look at him. So for all of those folks who keep reading into my original post and take out what they want...... - My son is not going to play in the NFL - He isn't 4.4 6'5" 250 freakish athlete that eats small kittens....he is a 4.9, 6', 210 pound athlete who is also productive on the field. His type make it to college all the time so there is no reason to think that he cannot. - He screwed up this last year in a big way in his grades - We are upset because people were actually looking at him and he had a chance to go as high as Div I-AA, but all they were doing at this point was having him visit, talking to us from time to time, and waiting to see what he did his senior year - We feel that he has/had an opportunity that most dont get-
John Adams Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I don't think all this stuff is really that relevant to the root of John's troubles, but since it is out there... Agree 100% with this and was just responding to where the conversation turned. John's son is his own situation--a good footballer but not one of the national recruit studs like Oher was. I was just responding to the assertion that a good player with bad grades wouldn't get into a school. That's a load of BS. Unfortunately, if you're good enough, you'll be on a team.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 I don't think all this stuff is really that relevant to the root of John's troubles, but since it is out there... Yes if you are a SPECTACULAR talent, who will definitely make a Div 1 roster and be a star, then many football factory schools will find a way to let you in. The groundwork for that usually starts well before college admissions time, if I had to venture a guess. I'm guessing most of those kids have been identified early and "handled" so that everything is taken care of, and they work every angle to get tests marked as passed, and all available resources at play for when college entry time comes around. (Street agents and "family friends" make careers getting these kids into college, and the pros. They are the fixers.) But it's a little bit different for a bright and athletic kid, looking at Div II or III, who has an outside shot at something if he develops properly, grows a bit, gets coached up, etc. Then he gets distracted and lets his grades go into the dumper. Sure he'd probably make the Div II squad, maybe even start, one day, but that isn't the kind of guy they go out of the way to bend the rules for. But that kind of kid sometimes finds his way to the pros. It's a long shot, but it is a shot that sometimes pays off. That kid needs a good coach and a real tutor, not a fixer. \ As always the absolute voice of reason.....I know you talk of NFL in your post I totally stay away from it because the chance is so minute.....a education would be nice.
The Dean Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 \ As always the absolute voice of reason.....I know you talk of NFL in your post I totally stay away from it because the chance is so minute.....a education would be nice. That was simply to address those who were saying they KNEW he couldn't play pro (even though they never met him, saw him play, etc). I know you aren't thinking about the NFL, nor should you be.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 That was simply to address those who were saying they KNEW he couldn't play pro (even though they never met him, saw him play, etc). I know you aren't thinking about the NFL, nor should you be. I still think he can outplay Ellison though.....
Chef Jim Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 \ As always the absolute voice of reason.....I know you talk of NFL in your post I totally stay away from it because the chance is so minute.....a education would be nice. An education would be nice? I really hope you just worded that very poorly and that was not a freudian slip.
BuffaloBill Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I still think he can outplay Ellison though..... This is a sad comment on the state of the Bills current roster.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 An education would be nice? I really hope you just worded that very poorly and that was not a freudian slip. Ya lost me.....
Chef Jim Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Ya lost me..... Well if I had kids (and this thread is reaon 13,993 that I'm glad I don't) and education wouldn't be nice, it'd me mandetory. Oh and my wife and I have said many times our kids would hate us.
The Dean Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Well if I had kids (and this thread is reaon 13,993 that I'm glad I don't) and education wouldn't be nice, it'd me mandetory. Oh and my wife and I have said many times our kids would hate us. I took it as a colloquialism, an idiom, an expression...not as a measure of importance (or unimportance). "...would be nice..." It's a saying.
John from Riverside Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 I took it as a colloquialism, an idiom, an expression...not as a measure of importance (or unimportance). "...would be nice..." It's a saying. ahhhh.....gotcha
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