U.S filing a WTO complaint against China????

[DC Tom]

For me, I do not want to charge $10 for a job that I normally charge (and rightfully so) $75 - $100 just because someone in India is.

 

 

Which explains why you're pro-union.

 

 

I would however lower my rates if I didn't have a higher cost of living than those I compete with.

 

You're an idiot.

[X. Benedict]

Ok, so the U.S is saying that the Chinese are practicing unfair trade practices

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...pSv6gwD990JGD80 , yet we have promoted protectionism through the "Buy American" clause in the Stimulus Bill.

 

the level of hypocrisy is amazing.

 

Filing complaints with the WTO isn't hypocrisy if you look at trade in discrete sectors.

 

Every country has trade impediments....complaints get filed when there is an impasse of logrolling (so to speak).

[pBills]

Which explains why you're pro-union.

 

 

 

 

You're an idiot.

 

 

Why does that explain why I am pro-union? Because I charge more than someone in India?

[DC Tom]

Why does that explain why I am pro-union? Because I charge more than someone in India?

 

Because you think you're entitled to it, no matter what the market says.

[IDBillzFan]

Not a lot of people can gain clients like that and are forced to come down.

That sounds like their problem. Not yours. Not mine. Theirs. You might have an argument if neither you nor I were able to win business on our own terms. But we do. And unfortunately, I'm one of those people who believes that if something is being done successfully by some people, you don't need to lower the bar just because other people are unable to be successful at the same thing.

 

If I wanted to do that, I'd be a public school administrator.

[finknottle]

For me, I do not want to charge $10 for a job that I normally charge (and rightfully so) $75 - $100 just because someone in India is. I would however lower my rates if I didn't have a higher cost of living than those I compete with.

 

I have news for you - you make 10 times as much even when you factor in the cost of living. Is it safe to assume that you have your own car? Very few Indians do, even the highly paid engineers. How big is your apartment? How often do you eat out? No matter how poor you are here, you are wealthier than your counterpart just about anywhere else.

 

My point is not to underscore the sense of entitlement that is so common here. Rather, it is to focus on a simple question. Whether we were to erect trade barriers or have perfect free trade, why do people here think the productivity of a bricklayer in the US generates so much more wealth than a bricklayer elsewhere? He doesn't. A pile of bricks is a pile of bricks. His relative wealth is owed not to his efforts but to the trickle-down effect of those who are generating disporportionate wealth - ultimately through international trade. He gets paid higher wages not because of what he does, but because those who pay his wages have more money to pay. But he had better hope that that advantage doesn't dry up, as it has been slowly over the decades, or his standard of living will truely reflect what he contributes - that of a day laborer, indistinguishable from one in Bangladesh or Brazil or the Philipines. Trade barriers will only speed up the decline by reducing the source of wealth.

[pBills]

Because you think you're entitled to it, no matter what the market says.

 

 

How did I say I was entitled? I have earned the right to charge the way I charge. Earned via awards, experience and overall great work.

[pBills]

I have news for you - you make 10 times as much even when you factor in the cost of living. Is it safe to assume that you have your own car? Very few Indians do, even the highly paid engineers. How big is your apartment? How often do you eat out? No matter how poor you are here, you are wealthier than your counterpart just about anywhere else.

 

My point is not to underscore the sense of entitlement that is so common here. Rather, it is to focus on a simple question. Whether we were to erect trade barriers or have perfect free trade, why do people here think the productivity of a bricklayer in the US generates so much more wealth than a bricklayer elsewhere? He doesn't. A pile of bricks is a pile of bricks. His relative wealth is owed not to his efforts but to the trickle-down effect of those who are generating disporportionate wealth - ultimately through international trade. He gets paid higher wages not because of what he does, but because those who pay his wages have more money to pay. But he had better hope that that advantage doesn't dry up, as it has been slowly over the decades, or his standard of living will truely reflect what he contributes - that of a day laborer, indistinguishable from one in Bangladesh or Brazil or the Philipines. Trade barriers will only speed up the decline by reducing the source of wealth.

 

 

First off, not poor. Secondly, I agree with you. I do have items such as a car and a more expensive home than some of the market competitors in India. A person charging $10 per project in the U.S. would be on Welfare, whereas in India they are for the most part doing ok. Mainly because they do not have to cover the expenses we may have.

 

So you would rather eliminate all trade barriers? May ask what market you work within?

[DC Tom]

How did I say I was entitled? I have earned the right to charge the way I charge. Earned via awards, experience and overall great work.

 

"And rightfully so".

 

And "I have earned the right to charge the way I charge."

[pBills]

"And rightfully so".

 

And "I have earned the right to charge the way I charge."

 

 

And your point? I know what my worth is... do you know what your services are worth?

[Magox]

Filing complaints with the WTO isn't hypocrisy if you look at trade in discrete sectors.

 

Every country has trade impediments....complaints get filed when there is an impasse of logrolling (so to speak).

It is when the country that is complaining about it happens to be practicing protectionism itself.

[finknottle]

So you would rather eliminate all trade barriers? May ask what market you work within?

 

I'm really railing against those who take positions on the subject while implicitely suggesting that it will preserve our artifically high standard of living.

 

Trade barriers are counter-productive and will leave us behind - India has learned this lesson and is only now turning it around.

 

If we want our people to make more than others for doing essentially the same thing, I can only think of two approaches. One is to game the trade system - that's the approach of the Chinese and the Europeans (albeit in different ways). Another is to stay ahead of the curve through innovation - that's the approach of the US. As long as Cisco is out-selling Huwai, the janitor at Cisco will make more for doing the exact same job as the janitor at Huwai.

 

Our best strategy is to level the field by striving for free trade and knocking down barriars, and rely on our natural advantages to bring home a disporportionate share of the wealth: technology, innovation, and flexibility. We need to maintain our educational edge on the world (something which US academia actively undermines) and maintain an environment which encourages a dynamic startup business environment with an educated and fluid labor pool. If we want to stay ahead, we need to be a constant source of new companies, products and ideas which the rest of the world is always trying to catch up to.

[DC Tom]

And your point?

 

My point is, it explains why you're pro-union. You think you're entitled to what you're paid.

 

I know what my worth is...

 

No, you know what you think you're entitled to. Odds are that you haven't much of an idea what your worth actually is.

 

do you know what your services are worth?

 

Yes.

[X. Benedict]

It is when the country that is complaining about it happens to be practicing protectionism itself.

 

Okay. But threatening to take things to the WTO is only really asking for arbitration and risk the threat of retaliatory claims.

All countries practice protectionism and scream about it when others practice it.

Nothing new. Basically it is all negotiating posture, but if you want to call it hypocrisy, I guess I won't stop you.

[pBills]

My point is, it explains why you're pro-union. You think you're entitled to what you're paid.

 

 

 

No, you know what you think you're entitled to. Odds are that you haven't much of an idea what your worth actually is.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

When it comes to freelance work I am entitled to what I am paid. I set the rates.

 

And yes, I know what my worth is.

[GG]

And your point? I know what my worth is... do you know what your services are worth?

 

I'll take the "whatever someone is willing to pay for the service that he provides" box for $100, Alex.

[Magox]

Okay. But threatening to take things to the WTO is only really asking for arbitration and risk the threat of retaliatory claims.

All countries practice protectionism and scream about it when others practice it.

Nothing new. Basically it is all negotiating posture, but if you want to call it hypocrisy, I guess I won't stop you.

That's the issue Benedict. Just because other countries do it, is not a reason for us to do so. You said it, "all countries practice protectionism" but we are suppose to be leading the way, even more so now. Protectionist policies do more harm than good, for everyone involved, and when we added the "Buy American" clause in our highly publicized Stimulus Bill, it sent the wrong message; and for us to complain about the Chinese sort of makes it a little less meaningful. They must be rolling their eyes right now, and laughing sort of like when Geithner went over to China recently and told their students that "Chinese assets are very safe" and that" We're committed to bring our fiscal deficits down over time to a sustainable level." also that "we believe in a strong dollar".

 

Words seem to lose their meaning when you don't practice what you preach.

[DC Tom]

When it comes to freelance work I am entitled to what I am paid. I set the rates.

 

And yes, I know what my worth is.

 

Can you herd cattle?

[pBills]

Can you herd cattle?

 

 

When dealing with some people at my main job... I feel that I do that at times.

[DC Tom]

When dealing with some people at my main job... I feel that I do that at times.

 

Not, "Do you sometimes feel like you're herding cattle." Can you herd cattle?