DIE HARD 1967 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 There's really no comparison. At the time Parcells signed Pennington the Dolphins had McCown, Henne(a rookie with no NFL experience) & Beck as their top 3 QBs. Pennington was a huge upgrade. When JP became available he already had Pennington, who won him the division & Henne, who showed a lot of potential in pre-season last year. Why would Parcells, who is on the record as not thinking much of JP to begin with, be a barometer on JP? I agree with the arm strength statement, JP vs Trent in the coaching staff's opinion vs the JP supporters on this board says it all. The NFL's view of JP as a guy who isn't an NFL QB can be summed up by looking at the fact that no team showed enough interest to sign him. A 4 team 6 game league is light years from the NFL. They'll be lucky to be as good as the last Arenaball season in terms of talent. 4 retread NFL coaches don't make the players NFL caliber. JP may light it up this year in Las Vegas & still never play another down in the NFL. Well, I think Losman would be an upgrade to Pennington.... I guess that kind of tells you what I think of Chad (lol) Edwards is much better then both.......way better Buffalo fans are always going to go with the rocket arm......its like chicken wings and beer
Coach55 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Where do you get JP plays scared? Say what you want about him, but you can't say that. When JP took off & ran, he would go head first & extend the ball to make a first down rather than slide. That is not playing scared. Now Trent, the 2nd half of last year..........................He played SCARED. JP has, what I like to call, Rob Johnson syndrome. He is afraid to make a decision and then the pocket collapses on him. Call it what you like - indecisive, scared - it doesn't matter. People blame the line, I blame fear - fear of making the bad decision. I'll agree he runs tough, but that is not what I was referring to.
Coach55 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Well, I think Losman would be an upgrade to Pennington.... I guess that kind of tells you what I think of Chad (lol) Edwards is much better then both.......way better Buffalo fans are always going to go with the rocket arm......its like chicken wings and beer Losman better than Pennington - no Edwards better than both - totally agree Buffalo fans are always going with the rocket arm - I personally would rather go with who wins. However you may have a point, hence the Flutie/Johnson divide and the Edwards/Losman divide. The stronger arm had fans regardless of W/L record.
DIE HARD 1967 Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Losman better than Pennington - noEdwards better than both - totally agree Buffalo fans are always going with the rocket arm - I personally would rather go with who wins. However you may have a point, hence the Flutie/Johnson divide and the Edwards/Losman divide. The stronger arm had fans regardless of W/L record. We totally agree
billsfan89 Posted June 22, 2009 Author Posted June 22, 2009 So far there is not even the building part intact. Forget the playoffs until we have new coaching. If we happen to fluke in a la the 2001 Bears, count your blessings. Bounced from the playoffs would be an incredible result for this season. When I say built to get bounced in the playoffs I mean a team like the Jets or Fins when they built with Pennington. They had good D's but not great D's. Both teams had good but not great running backs. Both teams used a conservative passing plan to beat bad teams and mediocre teams but they were never going to compete seriously with the better Super Bowl quality teams. But they got into the playoffs but you never felt they were going all the way. I would love for the Bills to break the playoff drought you have to walk before you can run. But if Trent is a Chad Pennington QB than unless the Bills have a 2000 Ravens like defense they won't win a Super Bowl. Once again the Playoffs are just the first step this team needs to take not the end game. If a team is flawed (a team that can't compensate for its weaknesses enough to win a championship) and think well they aren't going to win a championship but they can make the playoffs and win decent in the regular season so lets just not rebuild yet than your franchise isn't serious about winning a title they are satisfied with just being good.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 JP has, what I like to call, Rob Johnson syndrome. He is afraid to make a decision and then the pocket collapses on him. Call it what you like - indecisive, scared - it doesn't matter. People blame the line, I blame fear - fear of making the bad decision. I'll agree he runs tough, but that is not what I was referring to. JP often held on to the ball for too long, waiting for a play to develop or because he was not quick enough to read the defense. Thus far he has not had that little clock in his head that GOOD QB's have that goes off when it is time to get rid of the ball. That is not playing scared. Throwing the ball too quickly to your safety valve for little or no gain when a receiver was WIDE OPEN downfield, like Trent did the second half of last year is playing SCARED.
zazie Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 When I say built to get bounced in the playoffs I mean a team like the Jets or Fins when they built with Pennington. They had good D's but not great D's. Both teams had good but not great running backs. Both teams used a conservative passing plan to beat bad teams and mediocre teams but they were never going to compete seriously with the better Super Bowl quality teams. But they got into the playoffs but you never felt they were going all the way. I would love for the Bills to break the playoff drought you have to walk before you can run. But if Trent is a Chad Pennington QB than unless the Bills have a 2000 Ravens like defense they won't win a Super Bowl. Once again the Playoffs are just the first step this team needs to take not the end game. If a team is flawed (a team that can't compensate for its weaknesses enough to win a championship) and think well they aren't going to win a championship but they can make the playoffs and win decent in the regular season so lets just not rebuild yet than your franchise isn't serious about winning a title they are satisfied with just being good. For this year, I would be satisfied to be just good. Sadly, it will mean another couple years of futility after that, as it will give RW an excuse to hold on to DJ for another couple of years. Maybe the best thing, and I hate to say it, would be for a terrible start to the season, show DJ the door, and bring in someone who can coach the team up to playoff and then championship level.
billsfan89 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Posted June 23, 2009 For this year, I would be satisfied to be just good. Sadly, it will mean another couple years of futility after that, as it will give RW an excuse to hold on to DJ for another couple of years. Maybe the best thing, and I hate to say it, would be for a terrible start to the season, show DJ the door, and bring in someone who can coach the team up to playoff and then championship level. I would be satisfied with the team either making the playoffs or tanking. Either we get to see this team in the playoffs or we get a new start new coach (hopefully one a ring and a name that commands respect) and build this team up again. If the latter happens I hope somehow Trent still has a good season and shows improvement.
spartacus Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 JP often held on to the ball for too long, waiting for a play to develop or because he was not quick enough to read the defense. Thus far he has not had that little clock in his head that GOOD QB's have that goes off when it is time to get rid of the ball. That is not playing scared. Throwing the ball too quickly to your safety valve for little or no gain when a receiver was WIDE OPEN downfield, like Trent did the second half of last year is playing SCARED. more likely the coaches screwed up Trent by overcompensated in trying to protect him after his injury by drilling into him to get the ball out quickly - even if that meant dumping it off all the time. Trent looked good going down field when they were desperate and had no choice which indicates to me the coaches were the problem. it would be nice to get some NFL quality coaches to work with Trent before they screw him up beyond help.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 To this point, I have not seen Trent take a hard hit (one that doesn't cause actual injury) and then seemingly transform into a little girl. Have seen this many times with Chadwick --- having a great game connecting passes, then a DE lands a POW! on him and if/when he gets up, he's erratic and his accuracy is more or less shot. And w/o accuracy CP is nothing. I find it completely laughable that anyone can ever question the toughness of a NFL player. You don't get to where Edwards is without being a tough individual, mentally and physically.
Tcali Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I find it completely laughable that anyone can ever question the toughness of a NFL player. You don't get to where Edwards is without being a tough individual, mentally and physically. I think you can question mental toughness. Physical toughness...-unless its some FG kicker ---is hard to question. Although of course--some are tougher than others. It is relative.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I think you can question mental toughness. Physical toughness...-unless its some FG kicker ---is hard to question. Although of course--some are tougher than others. It is relative. I guess you're right in some respect. However, this is knock on Edwards that I think is unfair. If he was mentally weak, he would have gotten rid of the ball quicker to duck from the Wilson hit. If he wasn't mentally tough, he won't have gone head first into the endzone against the Chiefs. If he wasn't mentally tough, he won't have put us in a position to win against the Browns after a terrible 1st quarter. If he wasn't mentally tough, he won't have led us on 6 or so 4th quarter comebacks in 2 years. Barring injury (my one worry about Edwards), he will have a breakout year this season.
Tcali Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I guess you're right in some respect. However, this is knock on Edwards that I think is unfair. If he was mentally weak, he would have gotten rid of the ball quicker to duck from the Wilson hit. If he wasn't mentally tough, he won't have gone head first into the endzone against the Chiefs. If he wasn't mentally tough, he won't have put us in a position to win against the Browns after a terrible 1st quarter. If he wasn't mentally tough, he won't have led us on 6 or so 4th quarter comebacks in 2 years. Barring injury (my one worry about Edwards), he will have a breakout year this season. I like Edwards. He is mentally tough to a point....although he loses focus in the red zone too often. He is very cool in the pocket(which takes mental toughness). I think for a guy who has played a season and a half only and has had a serious concussion..he has done well.-He needs MORE toughness mentally if he wants to be an excellent QB in this league.--Look at all the really good to great QBs.-All of them freakishly mentally tough.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I like Edwards. He is mentally tough to a point....although he loses focus in the red zone too often. He is very cool in the pocket(which takes mental toughness). I think for a guy who has played a season and a half only and has had a serious concussion..he has done well.-He needs MORE toughness mentally if he wants to be an excellent QB in this league.--Look at all the really good to great QBs.-All of them freakishly mentally tough. Agreed. however, I think the red zone problems are more of issue because of our receivers. Evans, Reed, and Parrish are all under 6'. Royal is terrible and Fine or Nelson can't be any worse. Just having a 6'3" TO would mean a few more tds.
reddogblitz Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I would say that before we worry about the Bills winning a Super Bowl that we should worry about making the playoffs. So I agree with the Dean. To briefly reference another thread, Flutie was 4-1 for the Bills in 2000 and would have led us to a third straight playoff appearance had he been the starter. But he wasn't. I think many people would rather have a prototypical QB who sucks instead of a runt who wins. Therefore, Jim Druckenmiller and Kyle Boller get drafted high and guys like Flutie, Tarkenton, and Garcia have to make the most of their opportunities. Give me a playoff quarterback...true Super Bowl quarterbacks are far and few between. I don't think there's any question that Trent has a higher upside than "Super Bowl quarterbacks" such as Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. It should also be noted that in Flutie's last game as a Bill he had a perfect QB rating in a 39 degree rain storm at Husky Stadium in Seattle. If Trent goes from where he is now to being as good a QB as Chad Pennington, I'd take that in a heartbeat.
billsfan89 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Posted June 23, 2009 Agreed. however, I think the red zone problems are more of issue because of our receivers. Evans, Reed, and Parrish are all under 6'. Royal is terrible and Fine or Nelson can't be any worse. Just having a 6'3" TO would mean a few more tds. How tall is Nelson maybe he can chip in a few redzone td's this year as well.
Hanoverbills Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Agreed. however, I think the red zone problems are more of issue because of our receivers. Evans, Reed, and Parrish are all under 6'. Royal is terrible and Fine or Nelson can't be any worse. Just having a 6'3" TO would mean a few more tds. Losman had 19 tds with those short recievers and Royal at te in 2006. Isn't Edwards more accurate than Losman. He should be able to throw more than 11 tds againt the third weakest schedule in the NFL last year.
UConn James Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I find it completely laughable that anyone can ever question the toughness of a NFL player. You don't get to where Edwards is without being a tough individual, mentally and physically. Read again. I wasn't commenting on Edwards' toughness. It is Pennington who, as I wrote, gets rattled and 'turns into a little girl.' I was flabbergasted at the gameplan for My-ami last season, giving the dude all day to throw and a still-white jersey at games' end. You need to hit Pennington, then he loses focus and his accuracy goes to hell. I wrote that to this point I haven't seen this from Edwards. He's taken hits, gotten back up and still marched the O down the field. (Usually, for a FG. That's gotta change, especially with the new toys Owens and Nelson, and this year may be make-or-break.).
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 It should also be noted that in Flutie's last game as a Bill he had a perfect QB rating in a 39 degree rain storm at Husky Stadium in Seattle. By golly you're right. 20 completions on 25 attempts, 366 yards, 3 TDs, 0 ints, 48 yard long completion, 8 rushes for 31 yards
NoName Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Trent Edwards has far more arm strength then Chad Pennington.....I don't know who has those concerns about his arm strength....ppl to often confuse conservative play for lack of arm strength....Trent can make every throw on the field....I would rate his arm as adequate.
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