You gotta love the flutie magic

[VOR]

No he wasn't the only contributor. But neither was the defense. That was my point. Re-read.

 

Debate all you want, but the bottom line is, and maybe it's a conspiracy , but when Flutie played the team won A LOT more often than any other QB on the roster at the time. People want to pull him out because he's not Kurt Warner or Tom Brady, but newsflash! He was the best we had.

 

I honestly believe you Flutie haters have severe cases of Tall-Man Syndrome. Good luck with that!

The Bills won games with RJ in 1998-1999 (forget the years after that, since that's when the salary cap blood-letting began). In the Chargers game to open the 1998 season, Steve Christie missed 2 very makeable FG's, and that was the margin of defeat. Against the Rams, the Bills were ahead when RJ went down with an injury (a recurring theme, and a concussion in this case) and Flutie failed to run out the clock, allowing the Rams to come from behind and win. And the first win of the season was against the 49'ers, with RJ starting. Then he got injured on the first play against the lowly (at the time) Colts and Flutie became the starter for the rest of the year and the following year. And lest we forget, when RJ left the field against the Titans, the Bills were ahead, only to see the ST's inexcusably give-up a TD (which may or may not have been a forward pass).

[NavyBillsFan]

I know this is a very debated subject here with what happened with the Titans game but...

 

 

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

[Cynical]

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

 

And I think if I had played the lotto last night, I would have won.

[VOR]

I know this is a very debated subject here with what happened with the Titans game but...

 

 

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

That's what people like to think. But the Bills weren't going to beat the Colts in Indy the following week, with their banged-up O-line and injuries on defense.

[Steely Dan]

There is a huge difference between on-the-field ego, confidence, and simply being a spoiled self-righteous turd. No NFL player should feel he is guaranteed a starting job, and should be happy and proud to earn it, IMO.

 

You paint it as if one has to be either an overwhelming douchebag or a passive pansy. There are plenty of areas between those two.

 

This story The Senator likes to tell is preposterous. Flutie DID start for the Bills. His job wasn't taken away from him. As with his previous NFL stops, the football men in the organization decided he wasn't the answer, and decided to try another, younger and more physically talented guy. Did Flutie think he was guaranteed the Bills starting QB job for life? Perhaps he thought is was a Supreme Court appointment.

 

EDIT: One more thing. Do you think Frank Reich had a huge ego? Did he complain about playing behind Jimbo? There were some who were calling for Frank to got the starting nod, when he QB'd the team so effectively when Jim was injured. I would say Frank had a far better, and more productive, NFL career than Skin Flutie.

 

Skin Flutie!

 

There is a fine line between cocky and confident. There were many times Kelly would take the blame for an incomplete pass. I don't recall Flutie doing that that much if at all. Kelly traveled that line well. Jay Cutler goes over the line right now but I'm guessing he'll quiet down as his career goes on. He is also a young player who's made the pro-bowl.

 

No he wasn't the only contributor. But neither was the defense. That was my point. Re-read.

 

Debate all you want, but the bottom line is, and maybe it's a conspiracy , but when Flutie played the team won A LOT more often than any other QB on the roster at the time. People want to pull him out because he's not Kurt Warner or Tom Brady, but newsflash! He was the best we had.

 

I honestly believe you Flutie haters have severe cases of Tall-Man Syndrome. Good luck with that!

 

I say this as a guy who stands 5'5" but Flutie has a Napoleon Complex and so do his fans. To them, and him, he was ignored by the NFL head coaches just because he is short.

 

These are the same NFL coaches who's jobs ride on wins and losses but won't put the best QB in? Get over it you Flutie Flakes have a skewed vision of his abilities based on a great career as a CFL QB. Futie was a great CFL QB 'Nuff said.

 

 

typical...because RJ sucked, Flutie was great

Let's let you in on reality...they BOTH sucked!

It's a team game and Flutie screwed up a lot in 1999...constantly tucking the ball and running when he had WRs WIDE OPEN downfield. Thankfully we had the #1 defense in the league to pick up the slack

 

There's a few reasons people hate Flutie

1. we actually watched him play without having our faces stuck in his crotch
   
2. his fans portray him as flawless and give him credit for everything short of parting the Red Sea and don't give him blame for anything
   

 

What he said!

[The Senator]

WRONG! He did start, many games.

I think you missed my point Deano - which was that the Bills signed Flutie with assurances that he would have a fair chance to compete for the starting QB job, then traded for RJ and promptly named him the starter without giving Flutie that chance to compete with Johnson for the starting job in training camp. That Flutie finally got the starting job because RJ got injured is not quite the same thing as having a fair, legitimate chance to compete for the job.

 

But you knew that.

[extrahammer]

The Bills won games with RJ in 1998-1999 (forget the years after that, since that's when the salary cap blood-letting began).

 

Yeah they won, but nothing compared to Flutie at the helm...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2_sEQfqN8

[Guest dog14787]

Yeah they won, but nothing compared to Flutie at the helm...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2_sEQfqN8

 

 

A little Flutie magic goes a long ways

[Buftex]

I know this is a very debated subject here with what happened with the Titans game but...

 

 

I think if Buffalo would of beat the Titans that day (with Doug) we would of went to the Super Bowl that year. The Colts had a strong team but no D. Would of been Flutie Mania and possible our first Championship. Would of been great to see Bruce, Reed and Thomas get one.

 

 

That would have been sweet...but I can tell you, neither Thurman or Andre were huge Flutie fans. When Flutie scored that magic td against the Jags, in going out of his way to pat himself on the back, Flutie went out of his way to throw Thurman under the bus...it didn't go over well with a lot of the vetrans on the team...

[KD in CA]

Cut the BS. The Bills lost the game, because they allowed a last minute KO return, and the refs blew the call.

 

....and because the Bills one-dimensional QB completed only 45% of his passes that day and threw for less than 6 yards per attempt. Oh...and gave up a safety.

 

Maybe if Bills management doesn't have one of the all time brain farts, the game doesn't come down to a fluky KO return.

[canbuffan34]

To further your point Gordio here are the facts:

 

Flutie signed with the Bills as a free agent and shortly afterwards the team traded for Rob Johnson. The Bills started the 1998 Season 0-3 with Rob Johnson at quarterback. After a week 6 injury to Johnson the Bills installed Flutie as the starter. He led them to an 8-3 finish and the playoffs. Technically he should have been 9-3 as he won in week 6 in a game which Johnson started but didn't throw a pass.

 

Some people blame Flutie for losing that road playoff game in Miami even though he threw for 360 yards and had them knocking at the door at the end. He was sacked by Trace Armstrong and fumbled the ball. However before that play there were several horrible officiating calls which screwed the Bills. That was one of the most exciting and heart-wrenching Bills games in memory.

 

In 1999, despite being less statistically effective at quarterback than the season before, Flutie led the team to a 9-6 record and a second consecutive playoff berth. To protect him from injury, Flutie did not start the week 17 game against Indy. Johnson started and won the regular season finale. For reasons known only to the organization, the Bills decided to start Rob Johnson against the Tennessee Titans. It may be unprecedented in major pro sports that a team has so completely disrespected and emasculated a player who has done so much for them. Of course we lost the game due to the "Music City Miracle." We have not made the playoffs since.

 

The following season, 2000, Flutie was relegated to backup but started 5 games due to injuries to Rob Johnson. Flutie's record in those games was 4-1. Geez what a dropoff in effectiveness (sarcasm)!

 

From 1998 till 2000, Flutie's record as Bills starter was 22-11. It should actually be 23-11.

 

From 1998 till 2000, Johnson's record as Bills starter (with essentially the same team around him) was actually 7-10. His record should actually be 6-10.

 

Oh yeah, and in 1998 when the Bills were not selling enough preferred seating to trigger a lease extension, Flutie saved the Bills with his stretch run and tickets started selling like hotcakes, extending the lease and saving the Bills near term future in Buffalo. In other words, he saved the franchise.

 

His detractors typically point to two things:

 

1) He was a "midget." Give me a midget who wins games. These are the same people calling Trent Edwards a "noodle-armed quarterback." Fine you guys can have Rob Johnson and Kyle Boller (guys who are 6'4" and can throw 60 yards from there knees). Personally I'll take a guy who does whatever it takes to win, even if it's winning ugly. Guys like Flutie, Jeff Garcia, and Fran Tarkenton are the types of players (excellent QBs) who a huge portion of football fans will never embrace because they're hung up on what they think an NFL quarterback is supposed to look like.

 

2) He was divisive and not a good teammate. Look, the guy was disrespected and doubted his entire pro career. He was exiled to Canada because of the prejudice against small quarterbacks. He was kicked in the mouth by the Bills when he was benched for the Tennessee playoff game. He was treated like crap after he saved the franchise. I think I'd be a little bit bitter too. And what of Rob Johnson's role in dividing the team? Was he a good teammate? Was he conciliatory and did he support Flutie when doing so would have been best for the team? No. He sulked and withdrew like the coward that he is.

 

Flutie was maligned by the media who were put off by his ego and the chip on his shoulder. When his popularity waned, he was not helped by his icy relationship with the media. This trickled down to reportage and then to public opinion.

 

Doug Flutie is perhaps the least-appreciated athlete in Buffalo sports history. On no subject are more Bills fans more wrong than on their negative view of Flutie's time here.

Good job! This could be the most well thought out, articulate and concise thing I've read on this board in years. BRAVO, Sir!

[Booster4324]

....and because the Bills one-dimensional QB completed only 45% of his passes that day and threw for less than 6 yards per attempt. Oh...and gave up a safety.

 

Maybe if Bills management doesn't have one of the all time brain farts, the game doesn't come down to a fluky KO return.

 

Don't forget the 7 sacks. You know those sacks that do not go into QB rating, which the RJ fans were all about.

[Buftex]

Yeah they won, but nothing compared to Flutie at the helm...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2_sEQfqN8

 

It is hard to defend Rob Johnson. He was not mentally tough enough to handle the ups and downs of being an NFL QB. Having the vetran back-up, behind you, trying to make you look bad, at every turn, didn't help Johnsons' cause. People seem to have forgotten though, before Flutie got his first sniff of blood, playing against the Jags, he was looking like a pretty damn good NFL starter. He had a cautious, but unspectacular game against the Chargers, but started to light it up against the Rams, 49ers....then he got hurt, Flutie came in, won a game on a spectacular play, and it was all over for RJ. Flutie had the Bills fanbase vocally on his side, and Johnson just never recovered. I don't blame Flutie for Jonnsons' lack of mental toughness, but I do think he is partly responsible for ensuring the Johnson never recovered, once he sensed his weakness. Not a ringing endorsement for either guy. Johnson was too taffy assed to handle the pressure (see JP Losman?) and Flutie was not the team guy he always tries to pretend that he is...

[VOR]

I don't think it was a matter of mental toughness on RJ's part. He was the starter going into 1998, and then lost his job due to injury and Flutie having the hot hand. Flutie started from then on, until the Colts 1999 season-ender and then the Titans playoff game. Then RJ was named the starter in 2000. Mental toughness would only apply if RJ lost his job while still healthy but having poor outings/losing.

 

RJ's problem was staying healthy. Because of his maddening inability to throw the ball away. It seemed like he was worried more about his fantasy numbers, like completion percentage, than the number of sacks he took, and thus his health. There was no other explanation for say, running out of bounds behind the LOS with the ball in his hand, instead of throwing it away.

[canbuffan34]

Alright, I've seen enough of this garbage.

 

He didn't "save the franchise". The fact that the team went 10-6 and made the playoffs (while boasting a top 5 defense) resulted in higher sales of tickets/suites, and THAT is what kept them here. Was the The Greatest Athlete in the History of the Universe (Flutie) part of it? Yes. Was he THE reason? No. Ticket and Suite sales.

 

As this ludicrous debate should show you, there are/were plenty of Bills fans that bought tickets and didn't like Flutie, so enough with banging the "he saved the franchise" drum.

 

Also, let's not go overboard with how much better than Montana/Brady/Manning/Unitas he was. Last time I checked, he was so good that he was relegated to playing in the CFL for a decade.

The sales of those tickets and suites WERE a direct result of Flutie's play at that time! Please tell me you're not that obtuse to realize this? The Bills stadium lease was up for renewal at the time, the sudden excitement and buzz created by Flutie, Moulds et. al kept this team here!

[canbuffan34]

Should actually be 24-11. Very first game of his first season was against the Chargers and RJ was stinking up the joint. 3rd qtr I believe Johnson has to leave with a knee bruise or something. Flutie came in and led the Bills back and Christie could have won the game with either a chippie or a very makable FG at the end. Christie unfortunately shanked it.

You're absolutely right about this except it was a game against the Colts, not the Chargers.

[Buftex]

I don't think it was a matter of mental toughness on RJ's part. He was the starter going into 1998, and then lost his job due to injury and Flutie having the hot hand. Flutie started from then on, until the Colts 1999 season-ender and then the Titans playoff game. Then RJ was named the starter in 2000. Mental toughness would only apply if RJ lost his job while still healthy but having poor outings/losing.

 

RJ's problem was staying healthy. Because of his maddening inability to throw the ball away. It seemed like he was worried more about his fantasy numbers, like completion percentage, than the number of sacks he took, and thus his health. There was no other explanation for say, running out of bounds behind the LOS with the ball in his hand, instead of throwing it away.

 

 

IIRC, Flutie was only named the starter, until Johnson was healthy, that first season. RJ would come back, and always get "injured" again. I remember the Bills playing the Chargers at the Ralph, I guess it was 1999, and he had a pretty decent game. He had his 300 yards, but had been sacked a bunch...the fans at the Ralph were brutal on him, even when the Bills were winning. Eventually, the game ended in regulation, as a tie...but RJ was mysteriously injured on the last possession

in regulation. Flutie came in during OT, and the Bills won. It was chalked up as another example of "Flutie Magic".

 

The number of injuries that RJ had, in all sort of varities always had people wondering, at the time, if he was really injured, or was just enjoying it more on the bench, out of the pressure cooker, and not hearing it from the fans. I realize RJ only had a handful of "good games", but I don't think it was a coincidence that his best games normally came on the road.

 

RJ, I think, had the talent, but his skin was too thin. There is no way of knowing, of course, but I would hazard to guess, if he had come to Buffalo, and Alex Van Pelt had been his primary backup, things would have played out a little differently. When you have a young QB, what type of player serves as his backup is very important. Flutie, talented but limited, with a major chip on his shoulder, was the worst kind of backup for Johnson, in terms of his development.

[Buftex]

You're absolutely right about this except it was a game against the Colts, not the Chargers.

 

 

Maybe you are thinking of a different game? Rob Johnsons first start as a Bill, came against the Ryan Leaf led Chargers...and the Bills lost...16-14...Flutie couldn't get the job done! That was sarcasm....

[Arkady Renko]

You're absolutely right about this except it was a game against the Colts, not the Chargers.

 

It was the opener against the Chargers, sorry. Flutie came in again during the fifth game of the season for Johnson (against the Colts) and won.

[BuffaloPride]

The sales of those tickets and suites WERE a direct result of Flutie's play at that time! Please tell me you're not that obtuse to realize this? The Bills stadium lease was up for renewal at the time, the sudden excitement and buzz created by Flutie, Moulds et. al kept this team here!

Really? I paid the increase and renewed my seasons that year and I can tell you I didn't do it because of that piece of sh--. I renewed my tickets because, unlike you, I from here and I love my team. There is a tradition in my family of going to Bills games that dates back to when my father took me when I was a kid. When the lease was up for renewal I anted up so I would be able to continue that tradition and be able to take my kids to games as well. I don't know whether to call you naive or just plain stupid to think you can speak for all the Bills fans who paid to keep our beloved team here when our lease was up. I can't speak for all of them either, but I can tell you I did it to keep the team in Buffalo. God bless the Buffalo Bills...and f^ck Doug Flutie in his worthless a$$.