You gotta love the flutie magic

[extrahammer]

Flutie had his playoff game in 1999...He had the ball at the Dolphins 1yd line line with seconds left...he was sacked and he fumbled the ball...EPIC FAIL! So please spare me how Flutie would have won the Tennessee game for us. He lost his big playoff start for the Bills.

 

PTR

 

BTW, on that last drive they were at the 5 yard line, not the 1.

[Steely Dan]

It's really not so much that I dislike Flutie...well, I do, but not in a "I hope he gets run over by a rusty truck that dragging a maggot infested smelly dead carcass" kind of way.

 

It's just all you flakes that really piss me off.

 

OMG, Deerball wrote a post I exactly agree with. I'm gonna get a cold compress and lie down. Sumpin's wrong wit me lody, lody sumpin's wrong!!

 

 

Appreciate the words, SJ. I remember the time quite well...

 

Flutie was the focal point from the media standpoint, yes. However, there was much more to why that team won games than Flutie. He was an adequate QB, better than the other guy, which was all Buffalo needed at the time to put a winning team on the field. My personal belief is that any player that was able to manage the game would've gotten the same fan response, as long as the team was winning. Does that diminish his W-L record in the least? Absolutely not, but it does--in my opinion--lend some perspective to the idea that one man saved the franchise. I've always felt that the team could've easily obtained the $4M in revenue that they needed by simply selling the naming rights to the stadium, and I personally believe that would've happened had the team not gone on said winning streak.

 

As for the all-time-greats comparison, here's an example:

 

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1457666

 

Sorry, but he wasn't and was never going to be "one of the best". And if "all he ever did was win", why couldn't he win at home against Vinny and the Jets for the AFC East title in '98, or at Miami in the playoffs that same year, when it mattered the most? I think that too many people perceive that he was a far better player than he actually was.

 

Am I glad he played well for Buffalo? Yes. Do I have a sense of gratitude toward him for single-handedly keeping the team here? No. It's a team game, and the team needed a guy that was better than Rob Johnson. He happened to be the guy, and thus the fan base latched onto him.

 

Right on dude! Flutie worshipers are a big reason a lot of people don't like Flutie.

 

 

Can someone refresh my memory as to how many playoff wins the great "winning" QB led the Bills to?

 

Also, is it RJ or Flutie who wears a SB ring?

 

I think the hate involves the contract that RJ signed. He was the starter based on contract alone. And fans want to see that money used. They don't want to see a guy sit on the bench, collecting a kings ransom, and not playing and having the backup play. And yes Flutie was the backup. But in the NFL draft status is all that matters along with salary.

 

Kind of like Detroit, they're going to have to play the rookie QB based on salary alone.

 

It had little to do with salary and a lot more about perceived talent. They never would have paid him that if they didn't think he'd be great. So they played him because they wanted him to get playing time and gain experience that's why. No grand conspiracy there.

 

BTW, if RJ had 30 more pounds on him he would have been a lot better. I remember seeing him in training camp for the first time and he was a skinny pole. It's no wonder he was injured all the time.

 

The hate involves the fact that Flutie was an !@#$. He wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was. End of story.

 

If Flutie was as good as he thought he was and as good as his fans think he was he'd the greatest QB in the world has ever seen or ever would see and he'd be President of the world.

 

Flutie was a tremendous QB and one of the all time best QB's, in Canadian Football history. 'Nuff said.

[VOR]

Flutie rode a great team in Buffalo that got screwed by the refs in 1998 (the "just give it to 'em" game against the Patriots*, which would have put the Miami playoff game in Buffalo) and suffered a bunch of injuries towards the end of 1999. Take a look at his work (and W-L record) with the Chargers.

[generaLee83]

I've never been impressed with trolls running around on a football field. Flutie never made it big in the NFL because he wasn't good enough. The guy has a cult following that I'll never understand.

 

Umm, the Bills won games when he played QB and lost them when he did not.

 

Don't really know what else to say except that the Bills haven't had a good QB since him.

 

As for disliking trolls running around a football field how did you feel when the human retard statue Bledsoe was playing?

[Steely Dan]

Umm, the Bills won games when he played QB and lost them when he did not.

 

Don't really know what else to say except that the Bills haven't had a good QB since him.

 

As for disliking trolls running around a football field how did you feel when the human retard statue Bledsoe was playing?

 

Oh well, then he must have been great because all of the Bills QB's since then have sucked.

 

A crap sandwich with cheese is much better than a crap sandwich.

[extrahammer]

Oh well, then he must have been great because all of the Bills QB's since then have sucked.

 

A crap sandwich with cheese is much better than a crap sandwich.

 

Making the playoffs is like a crap sandwich???

[Beerball]

Flutie should have been allowed to see

perhaps if he were a wee bit taller

[Buftex]

I honestly didn't know there were Bills fans who didn't like Doug Flutie until I joined this board. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

I will acknowledge that he supplied us with some of the better moments of the last 12 years, but I almost vomited the day they signed him.

 

He is excellent at PR, but the guy is/was as divisive a locker room presence as TO has been accused of being, at his various NFL stops. I don't think I have ever felt as uncomfortable rooting for any Bills player, as I did Flutie. I have heard tales of his time in Buffalo, and they are not flattering for a "team guy"... and people here get worked up because Drew Bledsoe called the Bills "my team" at the end... Rob Johnson, as talented as he was (and sorry, he was a far better QB than JP Losman has ever been), likely would not have panned out...he was a little fragile in the ego department...from what I have heard (I know, everyone knows someone) Flutie smelt blood, and did everything he could, to undermine Johnson.

 

For all the great moments Flutie had (and again, I acknowledge he had some great moments in Buffalo), people are forgetting how truly awful he was at times. His second season, IMO, they made the playoffs in spite of his play down the stretch, not because of it. Those Bills teams had tremendous defenses...

 

To top it all off, he was a scab...

[extrahammer]

I will acknowledge that he supplied us with some of the better moments of the last 12 years, but I almost vomited the day they signed him.

 

He is excellent at PR, but the guy is/was as divisive a locker room presence as TO has been accused of being, at his various NFL stops. I don't think I have ever felt as uncomfortable rooting for any Bills player, as I did Flutie. I have heard tales of his time in Buffalo, and they are not flattering for a "team guy"... and people here get worked up because Drew Bledsoe called the Bills "my team" at the end... Rob Johnson, as talented as he was (and sorry, he was a far better QB than JP Losman has ever been), likely would not have panned out...he was a little fragile in the ego department...from what I have heard (I know, everyone knows someone) Flutie smelt blood, and did everything he could, to undermine Johnson.

 

Well I would think that would be a great trait to have, competitiveness.

 

On top of that, Flutie commanded respect from everyone including Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith. I remember hearing how the defense would stay on the sidelines after a series to watch Flutie.

 

No he wasn't a prototypical quarterback, which isn't hard to figure out with 175 lbs, he did his best when he didn't pass more than 25 times a game. With our runningback by committee approach at that time, it should have been easy for the Bills to manage. But in 1999, they had Flutie throwing the ball 30-40 times a game.

[TDO'Kearney]

There are a couple of things I have to weigh in on:

 

1) The JACFL game was a great improvisation, not Flutie self-aggrandizing. Flutie had great football sense, and he demonstrated it on more than one play.

 

I remember reading at the time that when he got to the LOS he realized that the formation was wrong for the run play called. Thurman Thomas even contributed to the play before the snap because he realized he was an eligible receiver covering up the line and had to back up a yard before the snap or there would have been an illegal procedure call.

 

And for you junior attorneys out there, I'm not googling around for 20 min to find the linkage, if the pages even still exist. Believe me or don't.

 

2) A couple of posters touched on it a little, but I think the negative feelings people remember about his size were based on what Parcells and Belichick for the Jets were always able to do against him. I believe the basic game plan was to play the linebackers outside and the D-Line inside to contain Flutie in the pocket and force him to throw downfield over the line and take away that roll out-jump pass that appears in the ESPN clip about 12 times. I hate Belichick as much as the next Bills fan but if you look at Flutie's stats against the Jets he had some woeful performances.

 

So, we had a very good QB with great football instincts, but the problem we had is the tyranny of hope. With Flutie, we knew exactly what we had, he was what he was. With RJ and Bledsoe, it was always the idea that those guys had all the "measurables" and would be great if they could just "get it" and see the field like Flutie did, so we would keep giving them more and more chances in the hope that they might get the football sense that Flutie had. Flutie, on the other hand, was NEVER going to get any taller.

 

Just my $.02.

[Alaska Darin]

That maybe true, I am not disputing that, but sadly enough he was the last winning qb we ever had. I guess people would rather root for a guy that goes 11-25 in his career but picks up trash around the fruit belt.

When the BILLS have a team that's as good as the one that surrounded Flutie, they will win with similar mediocre QB play. Flutie was an average QB on a very good football team. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Mr. WEO]

Great post.

 

 

Some people appreciate success and expect it. Other people are satisfied with mediocrity and stautus quo--to the point where they mock success.

 

Go figure.

[VJ91]

my second favorite QB of all time. benching a guy with this much heart is why the football gods have been angry with the bills.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...QBs-Doug-Flutie

 

p.s sorry if the link has been posted, i couldn't see it on the wall.

 

Flutie's magic season was not '99, it was '98. He came in for the injured Johnson and turned the NFL upside down while helping E-Moulds have the best season of his career. Unfortunately, Flutie was the starter in Miami for the Wildcard playoff game after that season, and although he played well and the game was close, he fumbled in the last few seconds inside the Dolphins 10 yard line, and I don't think Wade forgot that when he benched him for the wildcard game in favor of RJ the following season.

 

Flutie's biggest problem was not the NFL coaches that kept benching him in favor of taller QB's. His biggest problem was his 6'5 sized ego. He wasted the 8 prime years of his career being a star in the CFL, because he could not accept the challanges of starting in the NFL. He gave up. He quit. Frank Reich had prototypical size and arm strength GM's and coaches were looking for during his years in the NFL. But he didn't demand to be traded (there was no free agency during Frank's career), or quit and go up to Canada just to be the "star" of a lesser league. He spent almost his entire career backing up Jim Kelly, and made some pretty huge contributions along the way. Finally, during his last couple years in the NFL, Bill Polian brought him to Carolina to start for the expansion Panthers a year or two while rookie Kerry Collins learned the game.

 

Flutie would never accept being a back up. It's too bad. I would have liked watching him those 8 years in and out of starting lineups in the NFL. He was one of the greatest pure athletes to every play pro football, and I loved what he did for the Bills in '98-'00.

[The Dean]

When the BILLS have a team that's as good as the one that surrounded Flutie, they will win with similar mediocre QB play. Flutie was an average QB on a very good football team. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I agree, with this caveat. He was an average QB, but he had above-average scrambling/improvisational ability. (Of course, he had below average size and, by the time he was with the Bills, arm strength.)

 

I understand why people liked to watch him. The little guy, improvising on the fly, making a dramatic play or two late in the fourth quarter...pretty compelling stuff.

 

What they forget is, the reason the Bills weren't nicely ahead late in the game was often due to his poor QB performance earlier in the game. And many times the plays that were so fun to watch were a result of Flutie not being able to make the initial play, due to his size (couldn't see/throw over the linemen).

 

 

Flutie's magic season was not '99, it was '98. He came in for the injured Johnson and turned the NFL upside down while helping E-Moulds have the best season of his career. Unfortunately, Flutie was the starter in Miami for the Wildcard playoff game after that season, and although he played well and the game was close, he fumbled in the last few seconds inside the Dolphins 10 yard line, and I don't think Wade forgot that when he benched him for the wildcard game in favor of RJ the following season.

 

Flutie's biggest problem was not the NFL coaches that kept benching him in favor of taller QB's. His biggest problem was his 6'5 sized ego. He wasted the 8 prime years of his career being a star in the CFL, because he could not accept the challanges of starting in the NFL. He gave up. He quit. Frank Reich had prototypical size and arm strength GM's and coaches were looking for during his years in the NFL. But he didn't demand to be traded (there was no free agency during Frank's career), or quit and go up to Canada just to be the "star" of a lesser league. He spent almost his entire career backing up Jim Kelly, and made some pretty huge contributions along the way. Finally, during his last couple years in the NFL, Bill Polian brought him to Carolina to start for the expansion Panthers a year or two while rookie Kerry Collins learned the game.

 

Flutie would never accept being a back up. It's too bad. I would have liked watching him those 8 years in and out of starting lineups in the NFL. He was one of the greatest pure athletes to every play pro football, and I loved what he did for the Bills in '98-'00.

 

 

 

Bingo! Flutie may have become one of the great backup QBs to play in the NFL, if he would have adjusted his ego/attitude. That experience may have even led to him being something more than a novelty starting QB, in the NFL.

 

By the end of his ride in Buffalo, he was a locker room dividing prick.

[Steely Dan]

Making the playoffs is like a crap sandwich???

 

I forgot that Flutie played defense, sorry.

[extrahammer]

I forgot that Flutie played defense, sorry.

 

Defense alone doesn't score points. But you're saying Flutie had NOTHING to do with the team making the playoffs? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! SERRRRRIOUUSSSLLLLYYYYYY??

 

Do you also think we didn't land on the moon?

 

I honestly think that most Flutie haters don't even read any of the insurmountable evidence and facts that prove he was a good quarterback. You haters are like those 3 year old kids I see in the malls that start screaming and stomping their feet when they don't get what they want.

 

Bottom line, RJ sucked it up, Losman sucked it up, Bledsoe sucked it up, and Flutie just lead us to the playoffs. Facts are there, can't deny it. Hope this helps!

[Steely Dan]

Defense alone doesn't score points. But you're saying Flutie had NOTHING to do with the team making the playoffs? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?! SERRRRRIOUUSSSLLLLYYYYYY??

 

Do you also think we didn't land on the moon?

 

I honestly think that most Flutie haters don't even read any of the insurmountable evidence and facts that prove he was a good quarterback. You haters are like those 3 year old kids I see in the malls that start screaming and stomping their feet when they don't get what they want.

 

Bottom line, RJ sucked it up, Losman sucked it up, Bledsoe sucked it up, and Flutie just lead us to the playoffs. Facts are there, can't deny it. Hope this helps!

 

 

I don't recall ever saying he had NOTHING to do with this. I do recall saying he was a lot less responsible than a lot of people think. JMO

[Mr. WEO]

Bingo! Flutie may have become one of the great backup QBs to play in the NFL, if he would have adjusted his ego/attitude. That experience may have even led to him being something more than a novelty starting QB, in the NFL.

 

By the end of his ride in Buffalo, he was a locker room dividing prick.

 

Maybe it's because he was relegated to the back of the bus his whole, intermittent NFL career. He gets his chance, does well as a starter and gets pulled for a bum like RJ. He was certain that he was a better QB than Slow Robbie, and couldn't hide that opinion (he was right, as we all were painfully made aware over the rest of RJs awful career). I think Flutie has forgotten more about playing the position, or football in genaral, than RJ ever knew.

 

"A locker room dividing prick"? If you can identify any of them, why don't you track down any of the guys who sided with RJ and aske them their opinion in retrospect.

 

He's the only winner at QQB we've had in 10 years and you guys trash him. Amazing.

[Guest dog14787]

The one chance Flutie had to prove his greatness in the NFL ( not that he wasn't already great ) and we took it away from him for Rob F$%#king Johnson. I admit, as much as I loved Doug Flutie, I was one of the Fools that thought we needed to get RJ on the field. ( I even tried to suppress the memory until I think Lori reminded me )

 

I just got caught up in all the BS just like some of the BS in this thread.

[The Dean]

Maybe it's because he was relegated to the back of the bus his whole, intermittent NFL career. He gets his chance, does well as a starter

 

 

Let's stop you right here, as you are engaging in your usual, total bulls#it...

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/dougflutie/profile?id=FLU553722

 

Take a peek at his stats, and tell me again about how well he did, as a starter. I know stats don't tell the entire story, but I'm curious to see how you are going to spin these numbers into "doing well". He lost every starting job he ever had, because he wasn't good enough...PERIOD!

 

Why do people persist in believing Flutie was some great QB he couldn't hold the staring job for ANY NFL team he played for? As for his NFL playoff performance, it is relatively unimpressive. He stunk up the field in Chicago's loss to Washington in his first visit to the playoffs:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...98701030chi.htm

 

He played very well for the Bills, before handing the game to Miami (of all teams) on a fumble:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...99901020mia.htm

 

And he was a non-factor in his only other performance with NE (another loss, to Denver):

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlutDo00.htm

 

Three playoff appearances, his team lost all three times.

 

Where's the NFL greatness, WEO? Show me something that suggests he should be remembered as a great NFL QB.