Gordio Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thank you. I wasnt sure which was first. Id also like to point out to all the other fans that say the Bills never make big moves to make themselves better. Even though RJ wasnt exactly the talk of the league, he was expected to be up and coming and the Bills took a chance on him. He also walked off the field as a winner in the Music City Miracle game. He was a tropper and led the team on a game winning drive while only wearing one sneaker IIRC. It was the special teams blunder that lost that game for us. So for anyone that says "if Flutie was on the field we would have won that game", should ask themselves how well Flutie would have tackled Kevin Dyson? Noone knows what would of happened had Flutie he played that game. I remembered the line was really banged up & the titans were pounding Johnson on pretty much every pass play. To his credit he hung in there & put the team in position to win the game. With saying that, & please keep in mind I was an RJ guy at the time & glad he was starting that playoff game, looking back at the benching of Flutie for that playoff, a qb that was 10-5 as a starter that year, was one of the most classless moves I have ever seen a team do in the NFL & really think it is one of big black marks on Wilson's legacy. I remember watching one of the post game shows & I forget who said it, but basically said the same thing & then said "in the end the Bills got exactly what they deserved". It is very ironic that we have not been to the postseason since that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The way the 11 little Fluties played on defense was especially magical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuffan34 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thank you. I wasnt sure which was first. Id also like to point out to all the other fans that say the Bills never make big moves to make themselves better. Even though RJ wasnt exactly the talk of the league, he was expected to be up and coming and the Bills took a chance on him. He also walked off the field as a winner in the Music City Miracle game. He was a trooper and led the team on a game winning drive while only wearing one sneaker IIRC. It was the special teams blunder that lost that game for us. So for anyone that says "if Flutie was on the field we would have won that game", should ask themselves how well Flutie would have tackled Kevin Dyson? "Up and coming" Now that's funny! He had one good preseason game against the Giants and Ralph gave him 25 million dollars! I appreciate everything RW has done over the years to keep this team in Buffalo, but lets be honest, Ralph has made so many stupid moves ie: letting Polian go, GM hires etc. choosing RJ over Flutie was beyond senility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Bottom line- the guy was a winner. Considering what has come since him, his career in buffalo looks better with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 There's hatred among fans because he was a self serving prick. He reaped the accolades when we won and pointed the finger at others when we lost. He was a media whore who pouted like a little baby when he got benched and started a coup in the locker room in an effort to get his job back. Thruout his career Doug Flutie cared about one thing and that is himself. He was a shameless self promoter. F^ck him in his a$$. You're right. Jim Kelly never called out a teammate or almost divided up a locker room. Oh wait, he did. But Flutie should have handled being benched for a playoff game for RJ after he helped led the team to the playoffs for a 2nd straight year with more class. And who cares what Flutie did in other places? Steve Young sucked in TB. All I know is Flutie won and took us to the playoffs for 2 straight year. He should have never been benched for that toolbox. And because we effed Flutie, karma effed us in the rear. And it's been doing it ever since and I blame the morons who actually liked RJ because he was bigger and had a stronger arm. you're the reason we haven't been to the playoffs in 10 years. I also love the morons who bring up Flutie losing the playoff game against miami. You mean the game were Flutie threw for 360 yards against one the best defenses in the NFL? It wasn't Eric moulds fault for fumbling after a 50 yard bomb on the 1st drive. Or it wasn't Reed's fault for getting maybe the dumbest unsportslike penalty in history and forcing the ball from the 1 back to the 15? Or it wasn't Fina's fault for getting absolutely smoked by Armstrong? It was all Flutie's fault. I'm never posting on this again. But to the tards who wanted Rob Johnson, look in the mirror, and understand you're the reason for this curse. The curse of Flutie. But the Bills' history is so full of pro bowl and playoff QBs, we can jsut throw one away when we have one. Idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thank you. I wasnt sure which was first. Id also like to point out to all the other fans that say the Bills never make big moves to make themselves better. Even though RJ wasnt exactly the talk of the league, he was expected to be up and coming and the Bills took a chance on him. He also walked off the field as a winner in the Music City Miracle game. He was a trooper and led the team on a game winning drive while only wearing one sneaker IIRC. It was the special teams blunder that lost that game for us. So for anyone that says "if Flutie was on the field we would have won that game", should ask themselves how well Flutie would have tackled Kevin Dyson? The Music City Miracle should have never come down to the last play of the game. RJ was absolutely abysmal until the final drive. He was sacked 6 times (including one for a safety) and flat out sucked. He completed only 45% of this passes and averaged a whopping 3.4 yds per pass attempt. If it wasn't for the fact that the Bills held the Titans to 194 yds of total offense and Antowain Smith actually had a decent game, we wouldn't have even been in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbills17 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yeah, you gotta love the way he magically divided the locker room and got the greatest receiver in Bills history benched because he didn't have the arm strength to hit him on a simple out pattern. His greatest magic trick of all is when he finally disappeared. F^ck him. And it's dolts like you that argue up and down for guys like Rob Johnson and JP Losman when people that have a brain can look beyond physical measurables and realize THEY CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL. Doug Flutie was a football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuffan34 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The Music City Miracle should have never come down to the last play of the game. RJ was absolutely abysmal until the final drive. He was sacked 6 times (including one for a safety) and flat out sucked. He completed only 45% of this passes and averaged a whopping 3.4 yds per pass attempt. If it wasn't for the fact that the Bills held the Titans to 194 yds of total offense and Antowain Smith actually had a decent game, we wouldn't have even been in there. Thank You! I can't stand RJ apologists that say "We were leading when RJ left the field" People can say what they want about Flutie, he should have started that game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 ...Flutie never made it big in the NFL because he wasn't good enough... Compared to whom? RJ, Todd Collins, Or better yet - Losman, and a sorry run of successors...? It's not like we had the second coming of Jim Kelly after that - come on now. I'm not sure what his locker room presence was - but on the field there was excitement and the team always felt like they had a shot...Plus by Wilson's own admission - he saved the franchise... C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 You're right. Jim Kelly never called out a teammate or almost divided up a locker room. Oh wait, he did. But Flutie should have handled being benched for a playoff game for RJ after he helped led the team to the playoffs for a 2nd straight year with more class. And who cares what Flutie did in other places? Steve Young sucked in TB. All I know is Flutie won and took us to the playoffs for 2 straight year. He should have never been benched for that toolbox. And because we effed Flutie, karma effed us in the rear. And it's been doing it ever since and I blame the morons who actually liked RJ because he was bigger and had a stronger arm. you're the reason we haven't been to the playoffs in 10 years. I also love the morons who bring up Flutie losing the playoff game against miami. You mean the game were Flutie threw for 360 yards against one the best defenses in the NFL? It wasn't Eric moulds fault for fumbling after a 50 yard bomb on the 1st drive. Or it wasn't Reed's fault for getting maybe the dumbest unsportslike penalty in history and forcing the ball from the 1 back to the 15? Or it wasn't Fina's fault for getting absolutely smoked by Armstrong? It was all Flutie's fault. I'm never posting on this again. But to the tards who wanted Rob Johnson, look in the mirror, and understand you're the reason for this curse. The curse of Flutie. But the Bills' history is so full of pro bowl and playoff QBs, we can jsut throw one away when we have one. Idiots. Think what you want about his time here, but if we kept flutie in 2001, that team may have gone 5-11 instead of 3-13. (But then again, you're highly impressed by 7-9, so maybe 5-11 sounded very good to you) That entire team was crap and was going nowhere. Also, take a look at what flutie did after he left buffalo...nothing. So there's no reason to believe he would have "magically" led us to the playoffs. Flutie "magic" is like the wizard of Oz magic. You pull the curtain and find that the real reason behind the success was a top defense, NOT some little egomanical dwarf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 How could you look at those stats & say his 2nd season in Buffalo was better then his first? You realize he only started 10 games in his first year & 15 in his 2nd year right? As far as Flutie goes, I never understood the hatred by Bills fans for the guy, the same Bills fans that will go to their grave supporting guys like Rob Johnson & JP Losman. He really was the last winning QB the bills ever had. You could say he had a great team around him but keep this in mind. The three years he was here I believe he had a 23-12 record with the bills. Rob Johnson with that same team had I believe a 6-8 record with the bills. I am not going to lie to you, back in the day I was an RJ guy, but over the years I have seen the errors of my ways & it is one of the reasons I was so quick to turn on Losman. i seen his act before & knew he was never going to get it. Plus, Flutie had his hand in saving the franchise when he gave the team that spark after getting of to an 0-3 start by spurring interest(particularly Canadian interest) in buying the club seats. I am not saying that the Flute was a hall of famer, but there have been alot worse qbs that have come thru here since kelly retired & it seems like there is still alot of hatred among fans for the only winning qb we had here since Kelly retired. To further your point Gordio here are the facts: Flutie signed with the Bills as a free agent and shortly afterwards the team traded for Rob Johnson. The Bills started the 1998 Season 0-3 with Rob Johnson at quarterback. After a week 6 injury to Johnson the Bills installed Flutie as the starter. He led them to an 8-3 finish and the playoffs. Technically he should have been 9-3 as he won in week 6 in a game which Johnson started but didn't throw a pass. Some people blame Flutie for losing that road playoff game in Miami even though he threw for 360 yards and had them knocking at the door at the end. He was sacked by Trace Armstrong and fumbled the ball. However before that play there were several horrible officiating calls which screwed the Bills. That was one of the most exciting and heart-wrenching Bills games in memory. In 1999, despite being less statistically effective at quarterback than the season before, Flutie led the team to a 9-6 record and a second consecutive playoff berth. To protect him from injury, Flutie did not start the week 17 game against Indy. Johnson started and won the regular season finale. For reasons known only to the organization, the Bills decided to start Rob Johnson against the Tennessee Titans. It may be unprecedented in major pro sports that a team has so completely disrespected and emasculated a player who has done so much for them. Of course we lost the game due to the "Music City Miracle." We have not made the playoffs since. The following season, 2000, Flutie was relegated to backup but started 5 games due to injuries to Rob Johnson. Flutie's record in those games was 4-1. Geez what a dropoff in effectiveness (sarcasm)! From 1998 till 2000, Flutie's record as Bills starter was 22-11. It should actually be 23-11. From 1998 till 2000, Johnson's record as Bills starter (with essentially the same team around him) was actually 7-10. His record should actually be 6-10. Oh yeah, and in 1998 when the Bills were not selling enough preferred seating to trigger a lease extension, Flutie saved the Bills with his stretch run and tickets started selling like hotcakes, extending the lease and saving the Bills near term future in Buffalo. In other words, he saved the franchise. His detractors typically point to two things: 1) He was a "midget." Give me a midget who wins games. These are the same people calling Trent Edwards a "noodle-armed quarterback." Fine you guys can have Rob Johnson and Kyle Boller (guys who are 6'4" and can throw 60 yards from there knees). Personally I'll take a guy who does whatever it takes to win, even if it's winning ugly. Guys like Flutie, Jeff Garcia, and Fran Tarkenton are the types of players (excellent QBs) who a huge portion of football fans will never embrace because they're hung up on what they think an NFL quarterback is supposed to look like. 2) He was divisive and not a good teammate. Look, the guy was disrespected and doubted his entire pro career. He was exiled to Canada because of the prejudice against small quarterbacks. He was kicked in the mouth by the Bills when he was benched for the Tennessee playoff game. He was treated like crap after he saved the franchise. I think I'd be a little bit bitter too. And what of Rob Johnson's role in dividing the team? Was he a good teammate? Was he conciliatory and did he support Flutie when doing so would have been best for the team? No. He sulked and withdrew like the coward that he is. Flutie was maligned by the media who were put off by his ego and the chip on his shoulder. When his popularity waned, he was not helped by his icy relationship with the media. This trickled down to reportage and then to public opinion. Doug Flutie is perhaps the least-appreciated athlete in Buffalo sports history. On no subject are more Bills fans more wrong than on their negative view of Flutie's time here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Mine too. I took my dad to that game because one of the guys could not make it. My dad was a big Flutie fan & all game my dad kept saying the Flute was going to do something to win the game. I remember when he score the stadium was going wild & the scoreboard was playing the song "do you believe in majic". I remember walking out of that game to our car thinking how the hell did we win that game. The funny, I never got this confirmed but if you watch the replay I do not think he told anybody in the huddle he was going to run a bootleg. I think the play call was to go to Thomas up the middle. I think Flute wanted noone to know so the play would look like it was going up the middle. One of my best memories of being at the stadium. Was there too...One of my best days as a Bills fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I cannot believe we are still having a Flutie/RJ debate. New season is a about to start. Cue the Edwards/Fitzpatrick debates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 There's hatred among fans because he was a self serving prick. He reaped the accolades when we won and pointed the finger at others when we lost. He was a media whore who pouted like a little baby when he got benched and started a coup in the locker room in an effort to get his job back. Thruout his career Doug Flutie cared about one thing and that is himself. He was a shameless self promoter. F^ck him in his a$$. Let's for a moment assume all you say is true - including the F him in the ass bit - to each his own... But the truth remains that we were a better team *on the field* with him as opposed to the other guy. I Don't hate RJ - but at that time and place - in terms of production Flutie was the much better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuffan34 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Think what you want about his time here, but if we kept flutie in 2001, that team may have gone 5-11 instead of 3-13. (But then again, you're highly impressed by 7-9, so maybe 5-11 sounded very good to you) That entire team was crap and was going nowhere. Also, take a look at what flutie did after he left buffalo...nothing. So there's no reason to believe he would have "magically" led us to the playoffs. Flutie "magic" is like the wizard of Oz magic. You pull the curtain and find that the real reason behind the success was a top defense, NOT some little egomanical dwarf. That "dwarf" is the reason you are a Buffalo Bills fan instead of a Los Angeles Bills fan, show a little respect for the man who saved this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I also love the morons who bring up Flutie losing the playoff game against miami. You mean the game were Flutie threw for 360 yards against one the best defenses in the NFL? It wasn't Eric moulds fault for fumbling after a 50 yard bomb on the 1st drive. Or it wasn't Reed's fault for getting maybe the dumbest unsportslike penalty in history and forcing the ball from the 1 back to the 15? Or it wasn't Fina's fault for getting absolutely smoked by Armstrong? It was all Flutie's fault. Actually, I am thinking of the Flutie who TWICE turned the ball over within the 10-yard line, but that's just me. I liked Flutie and preferred him to Johnson, but any observer had to see that he could not beat a disciplined defense. Whether he would have beaten the titans, who knows? If the ST stayed in their lanes, RJ would be remembered for leading a great comeback. So it goes with sports... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 He blew the play....there was no grand design or Flutie magic involved. He screwed up and ran for his life. And we won... Since then we have had plays that were designed and our team has not been able to pull it's collective head out of it's arse and we've been in the doldrums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamRoller67 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 And scored the winning touchdown. Christ almighty.... Broken play & you run for your life, just as all of us did in peewee when the play broke down. It was a 3 yard run and the OLB lost containment....oh boy, magical! Should we look up every guy who ever scored a winning TD for the Bills and start a thread for him too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Think what you want about his time here, but if we kept flutie in 2001, that team may have gone 5-11 instead of 3-13. (But then again, you're highly impressed by 7-9, so maybe 5-11 sounded very good to you) That entire team was crap and was going nowhere. Also, take a look at what flutie did after he left buffalo...nothing. So there's no reason to believe he would have "magically" led us to the playoffs. Flutie "magic" is like the wizard of Oz magic. You pull the curtain and find that the real reason behind the success was a top defense, NOT some little egomanical dwarf. Wow. you don't really believe this do you. Again, Steve Young sucked in TB so that wipes out what he did in SF? Flutie was a winner here. He had a td-int ratio of 39 to 27 and had over 700 rushing yards in 2 seasons. Eric Moulds had the best season of his career with Flutie. Again, I like winning QBs. Flutie was a winning QB in Buffalo. But since you apparently a fan of RJ and Losman, I guess you don't value that as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBillsFan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Criticize all you want about him but no QB for the Bills has done as well in the win loss column since Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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