thebandit27 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Ain't it great? Maybe next we can debate Kemp vs. Lamonica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 show me where I or anyone else said anything in favor of Johnson.. I never stated that you said anything in favor of Johnson. I was simply saying that Frez may have a point, since Flutie did score more points and win more games than Johnson. Try to keep up. I know 21 pages is tedious. your post is beyond idiotic...who the !@#$ cares about comparing the two? Is that the only argument you Flutie worshippers can come up with? He was better than RJ..so !@#$ing what? No one is denying that...still doesn't change the fact that your hero was a crappy QB in 1999Get your head out of Flutie's crotch and stop insinuating that people are saying things they aren't. As far as Williams and TD choosing RJ over Flutie, when one guy says he won't do what he's told and the other says he'll do everything he can to make things work, what do you expect? Good God...do you spend every night with a Flutie blow-up doll, too? Do you have some visceral need to insult folks who differ with your views? Can't quite figure out where the hostility is coming from, but if it makes you feel better to lash out at me, or Frez, or anyone and everyone that doesn't share your opinion, then go ahead and have your catharsis. Flutie's not my hero, just a guy who played well while he was in a Bills uniform. That some folks refuse to acknowledge that fact is amusing. All the original poster was saying - some 21 pages ago, before the Flutie-haters took the opportunity to pile on (which took all of 2 replies)- was that Flutie was a good QB. Don't blame "Flutie-worshippers" for what happened 2 posts later, and continues for 21 pages. And, BTW, in 1999, DF was 10-5 as a starter, throwing for 3200 yards and 19 TDs. Not MVP material, but far from "crappy". It was also the last year the Bills saw post-season play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I never stated that you said anything in favor of Johnson. I was simply saying that Frez may have a point, since Flutie did score more points and win more games than Johnson. Try to keep up. I know 21 pages is tedious. Do you have some visceral need to insult folks who differ with your views? Can't quite figure out where the hostility is coming from, but if it makes you feel better to lash out at me, or Frez, or anyone and everyone that doesn't share your opinion, then go ahead and have your catharsis. Flutie's not my hero, just a guy who played well while he was in a Bills uniform. That some folks refuse to acknowledge that fact is amusing. All the original poster was saying - some 21 pages ago, before the Flutie-haters took the opportunity to pile on (which took all of 2 replies)- was that Flutie was a good QB. Don't blame "Flutie-worshippers" for what happened 2 posts later, and continues for 21 pages. And, BTW, in 1999, DF was 10-5 as a starter, throwing for 3200 yards and 19 TDs. Not MVP material, but far from "crappy". It was also the last year the Bills saw post-season play. Senator, I'm not advocating for Philster or anyone else, as you well know, I have my own viewpoints. However, I disagree with a few items here: - The original poster didn't exactly dissuade folks from debating flutie's greatness. the thread title is "you gotta love the flutie magic", to which many of us responded that--indeed--no you do not have to love flutie or his perceived "magic". some folks have stated their reasons concisely (i'd like to think i'm one of them), and some have not (in fact, some have failed miserably to do so--no handles will be mentioned). - just for the sake of reference, i'm going to compare the statistics of Flutie's 1999 performance to another un-named QB: Flutie: 264/478--55.2%--3,171 yds--6.6 YPA--19 TDs--16 INTs--1 rush TD QB2: 268/429--62.5%--3,051 ysd--7.1 YPA--19TDs--14 INTs--1 rush TD Pretty similar performances, wouldn't you say? Now, everyone go ahead and take a guess as to the identity of QB2, then scroll down for the answer... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . QB2 = J.P. Losman (2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I never stated that you said anything in favor of Johnson. I was simply saying that Frez may have a point, since Flutie did score more points and win more games than Johnson. Try to keep up. I know 21 pages is tedious. Do you have some visceral need to insult folks who differ with your views? Can't quite figure out where the hostility is coming from, but if it makes you feel better to lash out at me, or Frez, or anyone and everyone that doesn't share your opinion, then go ahead and have your catharsis. Flutie's not my hero, just a guy who played well while he was in a Bills uniform. That some folks refuse to acknowledge that fact is amusing. All the original poster was saying - some 21 pages ago, before the Flutie-haters took the opportunity to pile on (which took all of 2 replies)- was that Flutie was a good QB. Don't blame "Flutie-worshippers" for what happened 2 posts later, and continues for 21 pages. And, BTW, in 1999, DF was 10-5 as a starter, throwing for 3200 yards and 19 TDs. Not MVP material, but far from "crappy". It was also the last year the Bills saw post-season play. The point is...NO ONE has defended RJ in the least and for anyone to keep bringing him up in an effort to defend Flutie is idiotic and dishonest...I get the urge to insult dishonest people because dishonesty is a sickening character trait..differing views are fine...bold-faced lies are not. Once you bring up RJ in an effort to defend Flutie, you can't be taken seriously...because you aren't defending Flutie...you're just ranting like a lunatic. As far as Flutie not being your hero? If you think Flutie played far from crappy in 1999, that statement is suspect to say the least. He continually ignored wide open WRs downfield and tucked the ball and ran...drives stalled that would've ended in TDs if he had played even average. Also, giving credit to any single player for a team's win-loss record is insulting to the rest of the team. Everyone knows the #1 defense in the league carried that team. Flutie's play helped cost us a few games that year and almost cost us a few more. Stats only matter in fantasy football....they don't mean a thing in actual game play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Senator, I'm not advocating for Philster or anyone else, as you well know, I have my own viewpoints. However, I disagree with a few items here: - The original poster didn't exactly dissuade folks from debating flutie's greatness. the thread title is "you gotta love the flutie magic", to which many of us responded that--indeed--no you do not have to love flutie or his perceived "magic". some folks have stated their reasons concisely (i'd like to think i'm one of them), and some have not (in fact, some have failed miserably to do so--no handles will be mentioned). - just for the sake of reference, i'm going to compare the statistics of Flutie's 1999 performance to another un-named QB: Flutie: 264/478--55.2%--3,171 yds--6.6 YPA--19 TDs--16 INTs--1 rush TD QB2: 268/429--62.5%--3,051 ysd--7.1 YPA--19TDs--14 INTs--1 rush TD Pretty similar performances, wouldn't you say? Now, everyone go ahead and take a guess as to the identity of QB2, then scroll down for the answer... . . QB2 = J.P. Losman (2006) Yes, very similar - 2006 was w/out question Losman's best season. He was rated the 11th best passer in the NFL, with an 84.9 passer rating. I don't think Flutie was ranked quite that high in '99 - I'm guessing he was probably somewhere in the 'middle of the pack'. (edit - or, as The Philster would say, "a crappy QB") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edit - or, as The Philster would say, "a crappy QB") actually, I don't use stats to gauge how a QB plays...stats tell you very little if anything...I use how he actually plays to determine that. If it's someone I haven't watched much, I readily admit I can't say for sure how he played. Flutie's play was maddening in 99 and I saw every play that season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Yes, very similar - 2006 was w/out question Losman's best season. He was rated the 11th best passer in the NFL, with an 84.9 passer rating. I don't think Flutie was ranked quite that high in '99 - I'm guessing he was probably somewhere in the 'middle of the pack'. (edit - or, as The Philster would say, "a crappy QB") Indeed, which is where i've always felt he performed in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 actually, I don't use stats to gauge how a QB plays...stats tell you very little if anything...I use how he actually plays to determine that. If it's someone I haven't watched much, I readily admit I can't say for sure how he played. Flutie's play was maddening in 99 and I saw every play that season Yet the Bills went 10-5 in games he started that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Repeat it as often as you like - doesn't make it any less ludicrous. Flutie was the tougher of the two QBs- and the smarter - and seemed to find ways to win. Wade was stupid to keep Flutie on the bench in favor of RJ. TD was stupid to choose RJ over Flutie. How'd the Bills do during that TD/Greggo/Mularkey era, anyway? Any post-season action? Senator, you keep saying Flutie finds ways to win but refuse to acknowledge that he blew the game for us in the 98 playoffs and was 0-3 in the playoffs. If all he does is win games how do you explain his 0-3 record in the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 show me where I or anyone else said anything in favor of Johnson..your post is beyond idiotic...who the !@#$ cares about comparing the two? Is that the only argument you Flutie worshippers can come up with? He was better than RJ..so !@#$ing what? No one is denying that...still doesn't change the fact that your hero was a crappy QB in 1999Get your head out of Flutie's crotch and stop insinuating that people are saying things they aren't. As far as Williams and TD choosing RJ over Flutie, when one guy says he won't do what he's told and the other says he'll do everything he can to make things work, what do you expect? Good God...do you spend every night with a Flutie blow-up doll, too? How can anyone participate in this discussion and claim that the whole Flutie issue had nothing to do with RJ or his play at QB? It is mystifying. If RJ was a very good, dependable QB (or at least better than Flutie), there would have been no Flutie, and, by extension, no Flutie "magic" (or lack thereof), no "divided locker room", no discussion 10 years later..... It had everything to do with RJ being a disaster at QB. I think that Flutie made it clear that this was his opinion also and history has proven him correct. TD's "plan" for QB and the offense was an incredible fiasco. "Blow up doll"? This is what you have to say about others who appreciate a competitive, intense, intelligent Bills QB? Focus on the Jills, Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Senator, you keep saying Flutie finds ways to win but refuse to acknowledge that he blew the game for us in the 98 playoffs and was 0-3 in the playoffs. If all he does is win games how do you explain his 0-3 record in the playoffs? Please try not to be ridiculous. I believe Jim Kelly also lost some games (6 playoff games, actually). Flutie's record as a starter in Buffalo was 22-9. That's how I can say he found ways to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Please try not to be ridiculous. I believe Jim Kelly also lost some games (6 playoff games, actually). Flutie's record as a starter in Buffalo was 22-9. That's how I can say he found ways to win. You're comparing Doug Flutie to Jim Kelly and I'm ridiculous? I'm still waiting for you to explain his losing record in the playoffs. Remember, all he does is win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Yet the Bills went 10-5 in games he started that season. #1 Defense in the league deserved a lot more credit for that record than the midget did...anyone who watched the 99 Bills knows that How can anyone participate in this discussion and claim that the whole Flutie issue had nothing to do with RJ or his play at QB? It is mystifying. If RJ was a very good, dependable QB (or at least better than Flutie), there would have been no Flutie, and, by extension, no Flutie "magic" (or lack thereof), no "divided locker room", no discussion 10 years later..... It had everything to do with RJ being a disaster at QB. I think that Flutie made it clear that this was his opinion also and history has proven him correct. TD's "plan" for QB and the offense was an incredible fiasco. "Blow up doll"? This is what you have to say about others who appreciate a competitive, intense, intelligent Bills QB? Focus on the Jills, Phil. you left out ineffective, overrated by his worshippers, and attention-seeking or noodle-armed The point is, most people that aren't blind to Flutie's many faults aren't defending RJ in any way. Everyone agrees that RJ sucked as a QB. The thing you Flutie-worshippers seem to think is that since Rob sucked, it automatically made Flutie good. It didn't. Guess what? Both QBs sucked...just in different amounts..and I think we all agree that Flutie sucked less. Doesn't mean he didn't suck, though. Contrary to what Flutie-worshippers seem to believe, it IS possible for more than one player at the position to suck Take 1985 for example...Vince Ferragamo and Bruce Mathison were the 2 starting QBs for the Bills...are you saying one of them was actually good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 You're comparing Doug Flutie to Jim Kelly and I'm ridiculous? I'm still waiting for you to explain his losing record in the playoffs. Remember, all he does is win. No, I'm not comparing Flutie to Kelly. Not at all. I simply pointed out that Kelly lost 6 playoff games in response to your ridiculous attempt to prove that, because he didn't win every single game he played, Flutie was not a winner. And you really are getting very silly in a vain attempt to make a point that is apparent to no one but yourself - please provide a quote where I wrote the words, "all he does is win" - you can't, because I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 No, I'm not comparing Flutie to Kelly. Not at all. I simply pointed out that Kelly lost 6 playoff games in response to your ridiculous attempt to prove that, because he didn't win every single game he played, Flutie was not a winner. And you really are getting very silly in a vain attempt to make a point that is apparent to no one but yourself - please provide a quote where I wrote the words, "all he does is win" - you can't, because I didn't. You're right. It's apparent to no one else but me that Flutie choked in the playoff game against the Fins. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 You're right. It's apparent to no one else but me that Flutie choked in the playoff game against the Fins. Thanks for clearing that up. And because the Bills lost that game, Flutie's not a winner. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 And because the Bills lost that game, Flutie's not a winner. Priceless. The team didn't fumble the ball on that last play, he did. But I guess thats the philosophy right? When we won games it was all because of Flutie and when we lost it was on the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 The team didn't fumble the ball on that last play, he did. But I guess thats the philosophy right? When we won games it was all because of Flutie and when we lost it was on the team as a whole. now you got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 The team didn't fumble the ball on that last play, he did. But I guess thats the philosophy right? When we won games it was all because of Flutie and when we lost it was on the team as a whole. Can I quote you on that? Because you're the only one that used those words. But I guess Miami didn't score points off the Moulds fumble in the 1st quarter, the Smedley interference penalty in the 2nd, or the facemask penalty on Cummings in the 4th. I guess Flutie wasn't 21 for 36 and 360 yards. The Bills vaunted run defense didn't yield over 100 rushing yards. And I guess Moulds didn't blow a late touchdown opportunity with that 15 yard penalty for bumping the official. It all came down to Flutie's fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Can I quote you on that? Because you're the only one that used those words. But I guess Miami didn't score points off the Moulds fumble in the 1st quarter, the Smedley interference penalty in the 2nd, or the facemask penalty on Cummings in the 4th. I guess Flutie wasn't 21 for 36 and 360 yards. And I guess Moulds didn't blow a late touchdown opportunity with that 15 yard penalty for bumping the official. It all came down to Flutie's fumble. Right, and I guess Fluties 22-9 record as a starter had nothing to do with the fact that we had a top ranked defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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