You gotta love the flutie magic

[VOR]

You've already excused TO's "Garcia's gay" comment---everyone, including you, already knew he was gay!

 

 

You still seem to be under the impression that all of these bad things could not simply be reported in the newspapers, magazines and ESPN--like, how ALL info was disseminated back then. What events transpired involving Flutie could ONLY have been reported through youtube, twitter, or facebook (WTF??). If "all the bad stuff around him wasn't known" then, why isn't it known now?

 

You clearly have a list of things that you were somehow able to compile back then, despite the lack of modern internet resources. I'm still waiting to hear them. Are you backing away from that one also? While you're at it, explain why we've come to know about all of TO's poor behavior over the years without the aid of the internet--we simply read the paper and watched TV.

You didn't know that OJ was smacking-around Nicole, or his first wife Marguerite. And when he was first named a suspect, you were shocked to learn that he might have killed Nicole (FYI I'm acting like you and presuming to know what you were thinking). And the newspapers, magazines, ESPN, etc. were all around back then. You probably don't even know half the stuff Kelly and Bruce were said to have done.

 

And Flutie is and always has been a shameless self-promoter. Maybe he hasn't spit on a player or called a teammate gay (again, both of which I said were wrong), but he's no less a jerk than you think TO is. The media has just fooled you into thinking he's some great guy who is just like you and me, while that whole 2-year stint with the Bills cemented him as being the guy who got jerked-around despite the fact that "he just won." Again maybe if his ego wasn't getting so stroked in the CFL, he might have come back to the NFL and worked his way to being a starter, rather than expecting it to happen and then dividing the lockerroom if it didn't.

[Mr. WEO]

You didn't know that OJ was smacking-around Nicole, or his first wife Marguerite. And when he was first named a suspect, you were shocked to learn that he might have killed Nicole (FYI I'm acting like you and presuming to know what you were thinking). And the newspapers, magazines, ESPN, etc. were all around back then. You probably don't even know half the stuff Kelly and Bruce were said to have done.

 

And Flutie is and always has been a shameless self-promoter. Maybe he hasn't spit on a player or called a teammate gay (again, both of which I said were wrong), but he's no less a jerk than you think TO is. The media has just fooled you into thinking he's some great guy who is just like you and me, while that whole 2-year stint with the Bills cemented him as being the guy who got jerked-around despite the fact that "he just won." Again maybe if his ego wasn't getting so stroked in the CFL, he might have come back to the NFL and worked his way to being a starter, rather than expecting it to happen and then dividing the lockerroom if it didn't.

 

Thanks for the excellent OJ example to prove my point. The media did a great job of exposing OJ as a serial abuser after his wife was killed. Yet you cannot answer why they did not provide us with the details of Flutie's TO-like poor behavior when at the height of his popualrity, nor have they since---over all these years.

 

Why has the media chosen instead to "fool" me by painting a portrait of DF that is actually the opposite of what you say he truly is? Explain this.

 

And you keep saying that I am "presuming to know what you are thinking", yet you won't tell me what information you have that no one else has. You simply keep repeating that there's this body of info that you kno wof and the press refuses to report on. I call you on it and you produce nothing except the same ridiculous claim.

 

 

Just tell us what you got--it must be a boatload, because you are likely the first guy to put Flutie on the same level of infamy as TO.

 

And by the way, Flutie DID "come back to the NFL and worked his way to being a starter"--for the Bills in fact. It was in all the papers at the time.

[Mickey]

Yeah, you gotta love the way he magically divided the locker room and got the greatest receiver in Bills history benched because he didn't have the arm strength to hit him on a simple out pattern. His greatest magic trick of all is when he finally disappeared. F^ck him.

...and yet, even if we were to concede all of that, he is still the best QB we have had since Kelly left and was the last to get this hard luck franchise to the playoffs.

[Ramius]

...and yet, even if we were to concede all of that, he is still the best QB we have had since Kelly left and was the last to get this hard luck franchise to the playoffs.

 

yet flutie "just loses" when it comes to the playoffs.

[The Senator]

yet flutie "just loses" when it comes to the playoffs.

Actually, if you want to be fair, Jim Kelly has more playoff losses than Doug Flutie, no?

[Lori]

Actually, if you want to be fair, Jim Kelly has more playoff losses than Doug Flutie, no?

True, but he also had a few in the W column, no?

 

And I have to admit it's amusing to read about the media having "fooled you into thinking he's some great guy who is just like you and me," when most of the beat writers couldn't stand the guy. Think what you will of Bucky Gleason, but he wrote what a lot of them were thinking when he filed the "don't let the door hit you on the way out of Buffalo" column upon Flutie's departure. That one's long gone from the Internets (although I think I still have the print version somewhere), but you can get the gist of it here:

 

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/...of_doug_flutie/

[The Senator]

True, but he also had a few in the W column, no?

 

And I have to admit it's amusing to read about the media having "fooled you into thinking he's some great guy who is just like you and me," when most of the beat writers couldn't stand the guy. Think what you will of Bucky Gleason, but he wrote what a lot of them were thinking when he filed the "don't let the door hit you on the way out of Buffalo" column upon Flutie's departure. That one's long gone from the Internets (although I think I still have the print version somewhere), but you can get the gist of it here:

 

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/...of_doug_flutie/

 

 

Well, Doug does have those 3 Grey Cups.

 

Is that just a bad photo of her, or does Doug's wife bear a slight resemblance to...

 

link

[VOR]

Thanks for the excellent OJ example to prove my point. The media did a great job of exposing OJ as a serial abuser after his wife was killed. Yet you cannot answer why they did not provide us with the details of Flutie's TO-like poor behavior when at the height of his popualrity, nor have they since---over all these years.

 

Why has the media chosen instead to "fool" me by painting a portrait of DF that is actually the opposite of what you say he truly is? Explain this.

 

And you keep saying that I am "presuming to know what you are thinking", yet you won't tell me what information you have that no one else has. You simply keep repeating that there's this body of info that you kno wof and the press refuses to report on. I call you on it and you produce nothing except the same ridiculous claim.

 

 

Just tell us what you got--it must be a boatload, because you are likely the first guy to put Flutie on the same level of infamy as TO.

 

And by the way, Flutie DID "come back to the NFL and worked his way to being a starter"--for the Bills in fact. It was in all the papers at the time.

Time to get your viewpoints straight, pally. First of all, no one can dispute 2 things: TO is a great player and has never had any legal troubles. He may not be nice, but boo freakin' hoo! This isn't tiddly-winks they're playing. Judging by the way you've gone after Bills players who suck but are clean and nice (JP) or players who are good but have legal issues (Lynch), you should be loving a guy like TO. And you don't strike me as a touchy-feely guy when it comes to caring about whether a person is nicey nice or not. But since you're such a Bills fan, you latch-onto him calling out teammates who aren't pulling their weight and/or suck. It's a joke. Even moreso since I saw what you said about the Eagles never coming close to making the SB again because of McNabb, while Garcia and Romo have done nothing to earn your love, if not Romo deserving ridicule for that Cabo thing.

 

We all saw how Flutie acted when he came back to the NFL and worked his way back to being a starter (about 5 years too late, which was the point). He divided the Bills' lockerroom and went on TV and said that he would have won the Titans playoff game, when his poor play at the end of the 1999 season is what got him benched and when it was the ST's that was directly responsible for losing that playoff game. That's about as "infamous" as you are trying to make TO out to be, and Flutie isn't even in the same zip code as TO as a player (forget the CFL). And there was other stuff, as Jim McMahon has alluded to, which involved him trying to divide the Bears' lockerroom. But since he didn't commit double homicide, and since Flutie was a sideshow for a couple years and then faded back into relative obscurity, no one cares.

 

But if you think that Flutie was a "nice guy," you're as simple as I think you are.

[The_Philster]

True, but he also had a few in the W column, no?

 

And I have to admit it's amusing to read about the media having "fooled you into thinking he's some great guy who is just like you and me," when most of the beat writers couldn't stand the guy. Think what you will of Bucky Gleason, but he wrote what a lot of them were thinking when he filed the "don't let the door hit you on the way out of Buffalo" column upon Flutie's departure. That one's long gone from the Internets (although I think I still have the print version somewhere), but you can get the gist of it here:

 

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/...of_doug_flutie/

I think I recall that article...a lot of people thought Bucky was full of it but from everything I heard, it was pretty much on target. I remember one guy who sat in front of me one game back in the day relating to me how he had met Flutie and RJ once in 98 and Flutie was a total prick to him while RJ was very congenial

[extrahammer]

I think I recall that article...a lot of people thought Bucky was full of it but from everything I heard, it was pretty much on target. I remember one guy who sat in front of me one game back in the day relating to me how he had met Flutie and RJ once in 98 and Flutie was a total prick to him while RJ was very congenial

 

Has this really turned into a debate about Flutie being nice? I met him in New Orleans in 98 and he was very cordial.

[SteamRoller67]

Has this really turned into a debate about Flutie being nice? I met him in New Orleans in 98 and he was very cordial.

 

He wasn't in evil midget mode that night. Once in a while he's nice to humans when he recruits for his cult.

[Lori]

I think I recall that article...a lot of people thought Bucky was full of it but from everything I heard, it was pretty much on target. I remember one guy who sat in front of me one game back in the day relating to me how he had met Flutie and RJ once in 98 and Flutie was a total prick to him while RJ was very congenial

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/articles/2...283-archive.txt

 

The first time I ever really got a chance to talk about the Bills with Chuck, a couple of years after this column was written, we somehow arrived at this topic. I'd already seen and heard a few things that made me reluctant to hop on the "Saint Doug" bandwagon, and he reinforced that decision ...

[VOR]

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/articles/2...283-archive.txt

 

The first time I ever really got a chance to talk about the Bills with Chuck, a couple of years after this column was written, we somehow arrived at this topic. I'd already seen and heard a few things that made me reluctant to hop on the "Saint Doug" bandwagon, and he reinforced that decision ...

You don't say.

[thebandit27]

Has this really turned into a debate about Flutie being nice? I met him in New Orleans in 98 and he was very cordial.

 

No, it hasn't.

 

The thread started by praising Flutie, and a reasonable contingent of posters (including myself) responded that we didn't like him.

 

We were asked to list our reasons, which we did--mine are well documented, but come down to 2 things: he wasn't a very good QB, and he wasn't a very good teammate.

 

As far as I can tell the rest of the thread is rife with comparisons to Fran Tarkenton and T.O. and ludicrous arguments as to whether or not he was better than Rob Johnson (how is this even a debate?).

[ddaryl]

I've never been impressed with trolls running around on a football field. Flutie never made it big in the NFL because he wasn't good enough. The guy has a cult following that I'll never understand.

 

 

Perfectly sums up my feelings too..

[extrahammer]

No, it hasn't.

 

The thread started by praising Flutie, and a reasonable contingent of posters (including myself) responded that we didn't like him.

 

We were asked to list our reasons, which we did--mine are well documented, but come down to 2 things: he wasn't a very good QB, and he wasn't a very good teammate.

 

As far as I can tell the rest of the thread is rife with comparisons to Fran Tarkenton and T.O. and ludicrous arguments as to whether or not he was better than Rob Johnson (how is this even a debate?).

 

 

I don't know, but if this thread was real, I would plant a bomb on it.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

...other stuff, as Jim McMahon has alluded to, which involved him trying to divide the Bears' lockerroom.

Regardless of our opinions, let's try to be accurate about what was written.

 

The article clearly states that Jim McMahon (another sterling person) dubbed Flutie "America's Midget" and that it was McMahon who "undermined" Flutie.

[The Dean]

Regardless of our opinions, let's try to be accurate about what was written.

 

The article clearly states that Jim McMahon (another sterling person) dubbed Flutie "America's Midget" and that it was McMahon who "undermined" Flutie.

 

 

Too bad Skin didn't learn a lesson from that, and take a more humble approach when he was with the Bills.

 

 

Much of the discussion keeps coming back to the decision to start RJ instead of Flutie against the Titans. I understand why many wanted Flutie to play that game, as he was the starting QB for much of that successful season. I disagree that the Bills likely would have won the game with Flutie, but I understand why some might feel otherwise.

 

I defend the decision on another level, though. Flutie was what he was, and every NFL head coach he played for thought that wasn't enough to lead the team to the promised land. At the time, the Bills needed to see what RJ was capable of doing...they already knew what they had with Flutie. I'm sure they decided Skin wasn't the guy they wanted to go forward with, for the future, as he was getting old, his arm strength was very poor by that time and he wasn't the kind of QB head coaches are comfortable with, over time. Flutie already had a chance in a playoff game, the previous year, and the team did not win. A big fumble by Flutie was one of the reasons. Furthermore, the coaches probably thought the Bills were very unlikely to win the SB that year, and they were convinced they couldn't with Doug at the helm. They made the decision to give their young, strong-armed QB (who had just played a terrific game against the Colts) his shot, and give themselves a look at their future.

 

Decisions need to be evaluated in context. There was a lot going on, and many considerations other than winning that one Wild Card game. You can disagree with the decision, but at least try to do so while showing you understand the context at the time. (Not directed at you specifically San Jose.) At least pretend you can think deeper and with more complexity than "Flutie great/RJ sucks!".

[extrahammer]

Too bad Skin didn't learn a lesson from that, and take a more humble approach when he was with the Bills.

 

 

Much of the discussion keeps coming back to the decision to start RJ instead of Flutie against the Titans. I understand why many wanted Flutie to play that game, as he was the starting QB for much of that successful season. I disagree that the Bills likely would have won the game with Flutie, but I understand why some might feel otherwise.

 

I defend the decision on another level, though. Flutie was what he was, and every NFL head coach he played for thought that wasn't enough to lead the team to the promised land. At the time, the Bills needed to see what RJ was capable of doing...they already knew what they had with Flutie. I'm sure they decided Skin wasn't the guy they wanted to go forward with, for the future, as he was getting old, his arm strength was very poor by that time and he wasn't the kind of QB head coaches are comfortable with, over time. Flutie already had a chance in a playoff game, the previous year, and the team did not win. A big fumble by Flutie was one of the reasons. Furthermore, the coaches probably thought the Bills were very unlikely to win the SB that year, and they were convinced they couldn't with Doug at the helm. They made the decision to give their young, strong-armed QB (who had just played a terrific game against the Colts) his shot, and give themselves a look at their future.

 

Decisions need to be evaluated in context. There was a lot going on, and many considerations other than winning that one Wild Card game. You can disagree with the decision, but at least try to do so while showing you understand the context at the time. (Not directed at you specifically San Jose.) At least pretend you can think deeper and with more complexity than "Flutie great/RJ sucks!".

 

Fate is transparent. Rob played a horrid game, absolutely HORRID... UNTIL, the last drive. Does that really make up for anything?

 

Of course it's not fact, just mere opinion, but based on historical records, like the win/loss column, if I were a betting man, the odds would have definitely been more in favor of Flutie than RJ. I could careless what writers in Buffalo think.

[Steely Dan]

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/articles/2...283-archive.txt

 

The first time I ever really got a chance to talk about the Bills with Chuck, a couple of years after this column was written, we somehow arrived at this topic. I'd already seen and heard a few things that made me reluctant to hop on the "Saint Doug" bandwagon, and he reinforced that decision ...

 

Anything you can talk about?

 

 

Regardless of our opinions, let's try to be accurate about what was written.

 

The article clearly states that Jim McMahon (another sterling person) dubbed Flutie "America's Midget" and that it was McMahon who "undermined" Flutie.

 

 

Too bad Skin didn't learn a lesson from that, and take a more humble approach when he was with the Bills.

 

 

Much of the discussion keeps coming back to the decision to start RJ instead of Flutie against the Titans. I understand why many wanted Flutie to play that game, as he was the starting QB for much of that successful season. I disagree that the Bills likely would have won the game with Flutie, but I understand why some might feel otherwise.

 

I defend the decision on another level, though. Flutie was what he was, and every NFL head coach he played for thought that wasn't enough to lead the team to the promised land. At the time, the Bills needed to see what RJ was capable of doing...they already knew what they had with Flutie. I'm sure they decided Skin wasn't the guy they wanted to go forward with, for the future, as he was getting old, his arm strength was very poor by that time and he wasn't the kind of QB head coaches are comfortable with, over time. Flutie already had a chance in a playoff game, the previous year, and the team did not win. A big fumble by Flutie was one of the reasons. Furthermore, the coaches probably thought the Bills were very unlikely to win the SB that year, and they were convinced they couldn't with Doug at the helm. They made the decision to give their young, strong-armed QB (who had just played a terrific game against the Colts) his shot, and give themselves a look at their future.

 

Decisions need to be evaluated in context. There was a lot going on, and many considerations other than winning that one Wild Card game. You can disagree with the decision, but at least try to do so while showing you understand the context at the time. (Not directed at you specifically San Jose.) At least pretend you can think deeper and with more complexity than "Flutie great/RJ sucks!".

 

Outstanding! What he said.