You gotta love the flutie magic

[The_Philster]

That's right. The Bills are the same TEAM whether Jim Kelly or Todd Collins or Alex Van Pelt is the qb. We should not be assigning praise or blame. Calling out individual players is dumb. Everyone gets pizza and ice cream after the game. Everyone gets a trophy. I give you a trophy, Phil.

And you get a trophy for the most idiotic post of the year. The team is made up of players...all of whom contribute to wins and losses. What I'm saying (that any child would already understand) is that you can't legitimately give credit or blame to any one player for a win or a loss. Calling a player out for losing in the ultimate team sport is beyond ignorant. Calling them out for making a bad play is another story.

[Randolph Duke]

And you get a trophy for the most idiotic post of the year. The team is made up of players...all of whom contribute to wins and losses. What I'm saying (that any child would already understand) is that you can't legitimately give credit or blame to any one player for a win or a loss. Calling a player out for losing in the ultimate team sport is beyond ignorant. Calling them out for making a bad play is another story.

The logical extension of bad plays is a loss. JP Losman sends his regards from the Meadowlands. Have another sip of TardBrau.

[billsfan89]

For 1, BRUCE was let go after that season. We still could've made the playoffs the but a rash of injuries and a head coach that quit on the team stopped us. Add in the fact that Butler totally !@#$ed up the salary cap before he bolted for the Bolts, a flop was inevitable

 

It seemed like such a quick fall from grace. The defense was so good the offense was OK and they made the playoffs (and should have advanced if it wasn't for the music city miracle). The next year the team was O.k. 8-8 and the defense was still pretty good and the offense was still respectable. Than the defense went to sh-- the offense took a step down it was so quick.

 

My question was during the 2001 season what injuries and departures led to the Bills being so bad (3-13) I can't recall what happened specifically. Than the TD era followed and we all know what happened.

[The_Philster]

It seemed like such a quick fall from grace. The defense was so good the offense was OK and they made the playoffs (and should have advanced if it wasn't for the music city miracle). The next year the team was O.k. 8-8 and the defense was still pretty good and the offense was still respectable. Than the defense went to sh-- the offense took a step down it was so quick.

 

My question was during the 2001 season what injuries and departures led to the Bills being so bad (3-13) I can't recall what happened specifically. Than the TD era followed and we all know what happened.

2001 was the 1st year of the TD era...lot of talented players were cut to get under the cap

[SteamRoller67]

Umm, the Bills won games when he played QB and lost them when he did not.

 

Don't really know what else to say except that the Bills haven't had a good QB since him.

 

As for disliking trolls running around a football field how did you feel when the human retard statue Bledsoe was playing?

 

Loved it....now you're going to tell the world Flutie was a better NFL QB than Drew Bledsoe? Your favoritism clouds your judgement. Bledsoe's 2002 season was a thing of beauty...'03 not so much.

[SteamRoller67]

Again, this is completely meaningless. All the matters iwhat he did with the Bills. Marv Levy & Belichick were terrible coaches in their first stints. For whatever reason, some people do better in certain environments. Flutie did well here and as good as any QB not named Kelly did in 2 years.

 

Yeah right!

Joe Ferguson 1975-76

Joe Ferguson 1980-81

Drew Bledsoe 2002 & 2004

Jack Kemp 1964-65

 

Football didn't start in Buffalo in 1986. There were some pretty solid seasons turned in by Buffalo QB's besides Jim Kelly.

Not to mention that 1998-99 Bills defense was every bit as good as the AFL Bills D and the Bermuda Triangle teams.

[billsfan89]

2001 was the 1st year of the TD era...lot of talented players were cut to get under the cap

 

Ok that makes more sense to me. TD was such a tease he drafted so well in 2001 (Schobel, Henery, and Clemens)and added a lot of good player to the D through free agency (Adams, Fletcher, and Spikes). The defense was set all we needed to do was add some players to the offense. He tried with Bledsoe and tried to draft talent to the offense (McGahee, Evans, Fat Mike, and JP).

 

The rest is history Evans was a hit, McGahee was Ok and JP and Fat Mike were busts. He let Pat Williams walk and the era ended with one winning season and no playoffs.

 

I guess 2001 was the cleaning house process of the TD era. makes more sense to me.

[VOR]

Cutting Ted Washington (prior to the 2001 season) was a killer for the defense. And then Cowart got hurt in the first game of the 2001 season and was never the same. Arrrrggggghhhh!

[Gordio]

And you get a trophy for the most idiotic post of the year. The team is made up of players...all of whom contribute to wins and losses. What I'm saying (that any child would already understand) is that you can't legitimately give credit or blame to any one player for a win or a loss. Calling a player out for losing in the ultimate team sport is beyond ignorant. Calling them out for making a bad play is another story.

 

Give me a break Philster. Qb is the most important postion on the football field. It is equilvalent to a goalie in hockey & pitcher in baseball. It is the great equalizer in that sport. Get a decent qb & it should allow you to compete most sundays, get a great qb(Manning, Brady) & your chances of winning on any particular Sunday go up 10 fold.

 

I always am stunned by the lack of importance placed on the QB position on TBD. I get the feeling most posters think that as long as you have a talented roster that you could plug any qb in. BS. The QB makes the whole engine run, they dictate the pace of the game & keep the defense off the field. Not to keep harping on JP, but his 2 biggest downfalls was he consistently failed to make plays to convert manageable 3rd downs & consistently put the offense in poor down & distance situations by taking boneheaded sacks, which in turn would lead to the inevitable turnover or punt. Watch Manning or Brady. The best thing they both do is consistently convert 3rd downs, they know exactly where the sticks are & they exactly know who is going to be open to convert those third downs. The lack of importance placed on the QB position is stunning. I guess watching 9yrs of absolute garbage under center will do that to a fan base. Outside of Bledsoe's first 8 games with the bills, Flutie was the last decent QB we have had since JK retired.

[thebandit27]

Give me a break Philster. Qb is the most important postion on the football field. It is equilvalent to a goalie in hockey & pitcher in baseball. It is the great equalizer in that sport. Get a decent qb & it should allow you to compete most sundays, get a great qb(Manning, Brady) & your chances of winning on any particular Sunday go up 10 fold.

 

I always am stunned by the lack of importance placed on the QB position on TBD. I get the feeling most posters think that as long as you have a talented roster that you could plug any qb in. BS. The QB makes the whole engine run, they dictate the pace of the game & keep the defense off the field. Not to keep harping on JP, but his 2 biggest downfalls was he consistently failed to make plays to convert manageable 3rd downs & consistently put the offense in poor down & distance situations by taking boneheaded sacks, which in turn would lead to the inevitable turnover or punt. Watch Manning or Brady. The best thing they both do is consistently convert 3rd downs, they know exactly where the sticks are & they exactly know who is going to be open to convert those third downs. The lack of importance placed on the QB position is stunning. I guess watching 9yrs of absolute garbage under center will do that to a fan base. Outside of Bledsoe's first 8 games with the bills, Flutie was the last decent QB we have had since JK retired.

 

I can't agree, Gordio, that when a poster says that they didn't like Flutie they're de-valuing the QB position. I think teams are a case-by-case study. Take a team like Baltimore, which won the Superbowl with Dilfer. Their defense was amazing, and to call Dilfer the most important guy on the team would be crazy. The same can be said for Tampa Bay in 2002; was Brad Johnson the most important guy on the field? I think you'd agree he wasn't. I think this is the point that some of us are making with Flutie. He was similar to those guys in that he was good enough for the team to win games. The difference between those two teams and the Buffalo teams that Flutie played on is that Buffalo's defense wasn't on the uber-dominant level of TB and Baltimore.

 

Now, in regard to whether or not QB is the most important position, it's still a pretty divided argument. You can look to teams like Atlanta, Baltimore, and Miami and point to how big an impact a new QB had on those teams in 2008. However, at the same time, you can look at New Orleans and Denver and say that QB play may not be the end-all, be-all, since neither of those 2 teams have made the playoffs in the last 2 years. The same point can be made for teams like New England and Tennessee, where QB was supposed to be a team strength, but thanks to injuries the entire picture changed, and the team still flourished. Now I know that New England didn't make the playoffs, but they certainly got by just fine with Cassell at the helm.

 

Like I said, it's still a pretty divided argument.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Loved it....now you're going to tell the world Flutie was a better NFL QB than Drew Bledsoe? Your favoritism clouds your judgement. Bledsoe's 2002 season was a thing of beauty...'03 not so much.

Flutie over Bledsoe any day of any week during any year. Except for one year before the rest of the league caught up (actually just one half season), Bledsoe was painful to watch. He was Rob Johnson's equal as far as holding onto the ball and giving up unnecessary sacks.

 

I always am stunned by the lack of importance placed on the QB position on TBD. I get the feeling most posters think that as long as you have a talented roster that you could plug any qb in. Outside of Bledsoe's first 8 games with the bills, Flutie was the last decent QB we have had since JK retired.

Totally agree. Further, to win you need a great quarterback if you have an average team around him and if you only have an average quarterback, you need to surround him with a great team. People point out Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer winning Super Bowls. Of course both of these teams had elite defenses, all-time defenses. Historically significant defenses. And yes, my recollection is that Bledsoe's "excellence" in Bflo consisted roughly of the first half of the 2002 season.

[thebandit27]

Flutie over Bledsoe any day of any week during any year. Except for one year before the rest of the league caught up (actually just one half season), Bledsoe was painful to watch. He was Rob Johnson's equal as far as holding onto the ball and giving up unnecessary sacks.

 

 

Totally agree. Further, to win you need a great quarterback if you have an average team around him and if you only have an average quarterback, you need to surround him with a great team. People point out Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer winning Super Bowls. Of course both of these teams had elite defenses, all-time defenses. Historically significant defenses. And yes, my recollection is that Bledsoe's "excellence" in Bflo consisted roughly of the first half of the 2002 season.

 

San Jose, you are a great poster, but I think you've taken leave of your senses here.

 

How can you so vehemently tout Flutie's ability to "just win", and then say you'd take him over Bledsoe, a guy that quarterbacked New England to a Superbowl? If you truly believe that the NFL is more about winning than statistics, then that doesn't seem to make sense.

 

And if statistics are to be considered, Flutie in his best season doesn't sniff Bledsoe's best numbers (which came in his first full season as a starter). Yes, Bledsoe used to give up sacks, and Flutie did not, but that hardly makes him a better QB. In fact, I'd say that's just about the only criterion by which you could begin to make the argument.

[Guest dog14787]

Give me a break Philster. Qb is the most important postion on the football field. It is equilvalent to a goalie in hockey & pitcher in baseball. It is the great equalizer in that sport. Get a decent qb & it should allow you to compete most sundays, get a great qb(Manning, Brady) & your chances of winning on any particular Sunday go up 10 fold.

 

I always am stunned by the lack of importance placed on the QB position on TBD. I get the feeling most posters think that as long as you have a talented roster that you could plug any qb in. BS. The QB makes the whole engine run, they dictate the pace of the game & keep the defense off the field. Not to keep harping on JP, but his 2 biggest downfalls was he consistently failed to make plays to convert manageable 3rd downs & consistently put the offense in poor down & distance situations by taking boneheaded sacks, which in turn would lead to the inevitable turnover or punt. Watch Manning or Brady. The best thing they both do is consistently convert 3rd downs, they know exactly where the sticks are & they exactly know who is going to be open to convert those third downs. The lack of importance placed on the QB position is stunning. I guess watching 9yrs of absolute garbage under center will do that to a fan base. Outside of Bledsoe's first 8 games with the bills, Flutie was the last decent QB we have had since JK retired.

 

In thy Holy Trent we trust

 

You can blame Dean, he's corrupted the minds of even some of the most logical fans.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

San Jose, you are a great poster, but I think you've taken leave of your senses here.

 

How can you so vehemently tout Flutie's ability to "just win", and then say you'd take him over Bledsoe, a guy that quarterbacked New England to a Superbowl? If you truly believe that the NFL is more about winning than statistics, then that doesn't seem to make sense.

 

And if statistics are to be considered, Flutie in his best season doesn't sniff Bledsoe's best numbers (which came in his first full season as a starter). Yes, Bledsoe used to give up sacks, and Flutie did not, but that hardly makes him a better QB. In fact, I'd say that's just about the only criterion by which you could begin to make the argument.

I don't know Bandit. IMO Bledsoe went to the Super Bowl because Bill Parcells was such a great coach. Most of the teams he coached really overachieved. If I remember correctly they beat Jacksonville in the AFC Championship (after Jax had beaten us in the wild card game) and lost to Green Bay in the Super Bowl. Wasn't that the season that Bledsoe set an NFL record for most pass attempts? Maybe not but that was a strange, uneasy truce, Parcells and Bledsoe. Kind of like Shula and Marino light. They were a passing team because I think Parcells realized that passing gave them their best chance to win, even though his core belief is running the football. But I always thought Bledsoe was overrated and I wasn't particularly thrilled when the Bills traded for him. His best years might have come under Parcells and then of course he had the benefit of playing under Bill Belichick. So some of his success I attribute to being in the right place at the right time. JMO. A top talent but not a winner in my book.

[Steely Dan]

I made lots of friends in the good ol days!

 

I highly doubt that you've ever made a lot of friends. Just sayin.

 

 

When you are that great, licking them (liking them?) is not deviant. It's eccentric.

Someday, Doug will come back to judge the living and the dead.

 

How many days in purgatory must one spend for disin da flute!!

 

 

It seemed like such a quick fall from grace. The defense was so good the offense was OK and they made the playoffs (and should have advanced if it wasn't for the music city miracle). The next year the team was O.k. 8-8 and the defense was still pretty good and the offense was still respectable. Than the defense went to sh-- the offense took a step down it was so quick.

 

My question was during the 2001 season what injuries and departures led to the Bills being so bad (3-13) I can't recall what happened specifically. Than the TD era followed and we all know what happened.

 

IIRC, Phillips refused to fire his ST coach and so Wilson fired him. If Wade had fired his absolutely horrible ST's coach he might have lasted a lot longer. Phillips is the best HC since Levy that Buffalo's had. JMO

 

San Jose, you are a great poster, but I think you've taken leave of your senses here.

 

How can you so vehemently tout Flutie's ability to "just win", and then say you'd take him over Bledsoe, a guy that quarterbacked New England to a Superbowl? If you truly believe that the NFL is more about winning than statistics, then that doesn't seem to make sense.

 

And if statistics are to be considered, Flutie in his best season doesn't sniff Bledsoe's best numbers (which came in his first full season as a starter). Yes, Bledsoe used to give up sacks, and Flutie did not, but that hardly makes him a better QB. In fact, I'd say that's just about the only criterion by which you could begin to make the argument.

 

I still think Belichick laughs heartily about that trade.

[Mr. WEO]

No one is trying to take them away. But when I look back at them, I mostly lament the ST's destroying the Bills' chances in the 1999 playoffs, with the ending of that Titans game.

 

And most of the "Flutie haters" are just pointing out that a 56.2% completion rate, 7582 yards, 47 TD's and 36 turnovers in 30 starts and large parts of many other games, isn't "just winning," as many would like to believe. Those numbers are on-par with Trent Dilfer's SB-winning season in 2000. Now I'll give him credit for providing excitement in 1998, after the Kelly years were over and the reality of Todd Collins set-in. But it was largely a team effort.

 

And Flutie was as shameless a self-promoter as you believe TO is. It's just that the internet and technology wasn't where it is now back then. Remember that he was cut by 2 teams before fleeing to the CFL, and then cut again with the Bills. And it wasn't because he was "relegated to the back of the bus."

 

Are you serious??

 

So you're saying that, way back (10 years ago), because the internet didn't have TSW, we will never know about all of Fluties nefarious misdeeds?

 

 

You know, I hear they did have newspapers, sports magazines and the "television" back then. Awesome stuff! Just unbelievable.

 

 

Flutie and TO were equal self-promoters.

 

Did Flutie perform endless self serving TD celebrations? Did he spit on another player? Did he disrespect another team and their home crowd by dancing on their logo? Did he call another teammate gay? Did he get suspended for being this bad person you imagine? Was he released by 2 teams, despite playing well?

 

I guess we'll never know because the internet wasn't quite up to par and all those "self-promoting" events that you insinuate ware lost forever in the fog of a sports nation's memory. Maybe you can find someone who was alive back than and ask them to tell you all about Flutie's TO moments--so that you can preserve them for posterity----here, on the "internet".

[thebandit27]

Did Flutie perform endless self serving TD celebrations? Did he spit on another player? Did he disrespect another team and their home crowd by dancing on their logo? Did he call another teammate gay? Did he get suspended for being this bad person you imagine? Was he released by 2 teams, despite playing well?

 

Wasn't Flutie released by 3 teams (New England, Buffalo, San Diego)?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Wasn't Flutie released by 3 teams (New England, Buffalo, San Diego)?

Yeah but what a career for a guy who was drafted in the 11th round by the Rams. Other fun Flutie facts:

 

At the time the USFL folded in 1986, Flutie and Sean Landeta were the last two active players kept by the league.

 

He beat out former NFL MVP Brian Sipe for the New Jersey Generals starting job.

 

He crossed the picket line in 1987 when the NFL players went on strike.

 

In the CFL he was the highest paid player in league history, was 99-27 as a starter, won 3 Grey Cup Championships and was MVP in all three games. His backup his last two years in Calgary was Jeff Garcia. While in Calgary he was criticized for being a player who couldn't win in cold weather. He holds the pro football record of most passing yards in a season with 6619. He won the CFL's Most Outstanding Player a record six times. He was voted the most outstanding player in the history of the CFL in a poll by TSN. He is the first Canadian to be named to the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame.

 

Back in the NFL, in 2001 at the age of 41 he became the oldest NFL player to score two rushing touchdowns in one game and the oldest to win Offensive Player of the Week in his first season with the Chargers.

 

In a 2005 game against the Jets in the last nationally televised game for Monday Night Football on ABC, Flutie played for New England against Vinnie Testaverde and the Jets. It was the first time in NFL history that two quarterbacks over the age of 40 (Vinnie was 41, Doug was 43) played against each other.

 

In his final professional football game in January of 2006 Belichick sent Flutie on the field in a strange alignment for the extra point. It was not however a two point conversion attempt. Flutie drop kicked the ball through the uprights for the extra point, the first time that had been done in an NFL game since 1941. Flutie's career record as a starter in the NFL is 38-27. When he retired after the 2006 season he was the second last USFL player to retire, after Sean Landeta. He played 23 years of professional football. He is married to his high school sweetheart.

 

Love him or hate him, that is a remarkable career. A lot of this stuff you couldn't make up.

[Flbillsfan#1]

I highly doubt that you've ever made a lot of friends. Just sayin.

 

 

 

 

How many days in purgatory must one spend for disin da flute!!

 

 

 

 

IIRC, Phillips refused to fire his ST coach and so Wilson fired him. If Wade had fired his absolutely horrible ST's coach he might have lasted a lot longer. Phillips is the best HC since Levy that Buffalo's had. JMO

 

 

 

I still think Belichick laughs heartily about that trade.

For a guy that is absolutely horrible, Bruce DeHaven has spent 23 years as a Coach in the NFL, currently in his 3rd year as the Seahawks Special teams coach.

[VOR]

Are you serious??

 

So you're saying that, way back (10 years ago), because the internet didn't have TSW, we will never know about all of Fluties nefarious misdeeds?

 

 

You know, I hear they did have newspapers, sports magazines and the "television" back then. Awesome stuff! Just unbelievable.

 

 

Flutie and TO were equal self-promoters.

 

Did Flutie perform endless self serving TD celebrations? Did he spit on another player? Did he disrespect another team and their home crowd by dancing on their logo? Did he call another teammate gay? Did he get suspended for being this bad person you imagine? Was he released by 2 teams, despite playing well?

 

I guess we'll never know because the internet wasn't quite up to par and all those "self-promoting" events that you insinuate ware lost forever in the fog of a sports nation's memory. Maybe you can find someone who was alive back than and ask them to tell you all about Flutie's TO moments--so that you can preserve them for posterity----here, on the "internet".

The internet was still in its infancy back when Flutie was with the Bills. No Youtube, no Twitter, no Facebook, no Google even. And back when he was released by 2 NFL teams before taking refuge in the CFL, the internet wasn't even around (at least, not to the public). So all the bad stuff around him wasn't known. But of course you will excuse him being released as being "relegated to the back of the bus," given his enormous talent that was being squandered. Maybe if he'd returned to the NFL after a couple years in the CFL and had a larger body of work while in his prime, we'd have a better sense of just how great he was.

 

And I won't make excuses for TO's spitting incident or calling Garcia gay. But consider the TD celebrations as the yin to Jauron's stone-faced yang. At least he didn't try to run over a meter maid or commit DUI manslaughter.