You gotta love the flutie magic

[keepthefaith]

Really? I paid the increase and renewed my seasons that year and I can tell you I didn't do it because of that piece of sh--. I renewed my tickets because, unlike you, I from here and I love my team. There is a tradition in my family of going to Bills games that dates back to when my father took me when I was a kid. When the lease was up for renewal I anted up so I would be able to continue that tradition and be able to take my kids to games as well. I don't know whether to call you naive or just plain stupid to think you can speak for all the Bills fans who paid to keep our beloved team here when our lease was up. I can't speak for all of them either, but I can tell you I did it to keep the team in Buffalo. God bless the Buffalo Bills...and f^ck Doug Flutie in his worthless a$$.

 

I just can't believe all the negative sentiment toward Flutie. Not saying he belongs in the HOF, but to not see the guy as a winner, a positive influence on the community and a very good player for Buffalo is ridiculous. His play IMO was miles better than any QB that has worn a Bills uniform since, including the current one. The way he played the game was inspiring. In the end teams learned to defense him better and he was less effective but he had a good run as a Bill. Really hard to understand how so many here bash the guy.

[Buftex]

I just can't believe all the negative sentiment toward Flutie. Not saying he belongs in the HOF, but to not see the guy as a winner, a positive influence on the community and a very good player for Buffalo is ridiculous. His play IMO was miles better than any QB that has worn a Bills uniform since, including the current one. The way he played the game was inspiring. In the end teams learned to defense him better and he was less effective but he had a good run as a Bill. Really hard to understand how so many here bash the guy.

 

 

I think Pride's stance is a little over the top, but when you think about it, the way people feel about Flutie, isn't all that different than folks in San Francisco, Philadelphia and Dallas likely feel about Terrell Owens. It is undeniable that he has/had talent, but, for what ever the reason, many just don't like the guy. Some folks have a harder time rooting for a "jerk" than others...

[The_Philster]

You were the ones saying that Flutie had no credible influence on the team making the playoffs.

 

 

 

I'm just saying that's an asinine statement. And yes, Trent Dilfer was a journeyman quarterback who didn't have great mobility or improvisation skills, but had good managing skills and could make that one play that they needed.

 

But if you want to talk about defenses carrying the team, Baltimore's defense during that team era did TONS more scoring their offense did. Dilfer only completed 48% of his passes in that Super Bowl and was sacked nearly 4 times. Talk about defense carrying the team. Maybe if you dropped the Jills obsession for a few minutes you could see that.

 

 

 

Trent's completion percentage in those playoffs that led to the Super Bowl:

 

@ Ten = 31.3%

@ Oak = 50.0%

@ New York = 48.0%

 

I'm not saying completion percentage determines the whole outcome, but obviously those are low and for them to win something else was a factor (Answer: Ray Lewis and Co.).

 

And furthermore, if you re-read my posts, I'm not ga-ga over Flutie, I'm just saying to dismiss his influence on making the playoffs in any fashion is insane and ignorant. And I'm also saying that just because RJ had the team winning in the first quarter against any team in 98 before he got his brain smashed doesn't mean s**t and it's a worthless point that some people are ignorantly making. I'd much prefer to watch a 5'10 quarterback with a chip on his shoulder than a wanna-be gangsta surfing kid who broke the NFL sack record at the time FOR A QB. Call me crazy.

 

To top that off, the Bills didn't have a #1 defense til the 1999 season, not 98, but either way it was nowhere near Baltimore's defense in 2000.

 

Hope this helps!

Maybe if you had a shred of common sense and actually read my posts, you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself.

The same people trying to say Flutie led us to the playoffs in 99 are the ones saying Dilfer had little or no effect on the Ravens winning it all. A 12-year old would notice that I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and double standards that Flutie's worshipers are guilty of. Neither one of them was a big factor in their team's success...although Dilfer was actually more of a factor than the midget...because he wasn't playing like an idiot.

As far as bringing up the 98 season, you should try re-reading everyone's posts. People aren't, for the most part, denigrating what Flutie did in 98 (except his choke job in the playoffs), but in 99. He actually contributed a lot to the team winning in 98...but in 99, the defense had to carry the load. We couldn't even rely on Thurman after that short little !@#$ got him injured at the beginning of the season.

[VJ91]

....Luckily for Flutie, Johns was a total kitty who took 7 weeks to recover from a being bruise he got from falling on a football. Flutie was ready to make the most out of that opportunity, taking the Bills to the playoffs, being named NFL comeback player of the year, and earning Pro Bowl honors.

 

Then, the Bills 'screwed' him again by naming Johnson the starter.

 

You left out a few minor details in your post. Number one, Flutie did start for the Bills in the playoffs over a healthy RJ against the Dolphins during his Pro Bowl season in '98, and lost that close Wild Card game in the final seconds with a fumble after being caught from behind by a bigger slower Dolphins lineman on their 5 yard line.

 

Then, Flutie received a hefty pay raise from the minimum to about $5 Million Dollars a season, and was named the starting QB for the entire '99 season, in which he led the Bills to a solid 10-5 record before being "rested" for the last meaningless regular season game against the hapless Colts at home. THEN, the Bills screwed him by naming RJ the starter for the WildCard game against the Titans the following week, after Johnson had a great game against the hapless Colts at home.

 

So yes, Flutie got screwed after starting 15 of 16 games in '99. But so what? He came out of nowhere and earned himself 5 Million a year and did everything in his power to prove his worth. He had nothing to be ashamed of, and had no reason to get pissed and divide the locker room and all of that diva crap that the newest Buffalo Bill seems to do with every team he plays for all these years later. Like I said before, it was not Flutie's fault how short he was. But he deserved to play in the NFL his entire career, starting or backing up. No way should he have quit and settled for the CFL just because he needed to be the starter for every game.

[Steely Dan]

Doug Flutie may have been small in size, but he played like the biggest man on the football field and in my opinion it inspired everyone around him to play just as big. Why someone would be so down on one of our past players, especially a player that brought so much excitement to the game of football is beyond me, to each his own I suppose.

 

See; Flutie, Doug, locker room attitude.

 

Saying that Dilfer is anywhere near the QB Flutie was borders on insanity. Dilfer was an awful QB. He was a dufus screwup at the beginning of his career.Then went to Baltimore--where granted he didnt screw up enough to lose them the SB while having arguably the best defense of all time.Then as a thanks for his great work baltimore cuts him. Ends up career in SF where he played the position at perhaps the lowest level in NFL history since RJs last pathetic hiccups in tampa bay.

 

Do you mean winning two games during the regular season for TB, in their SB season, were pathetic hiccups? Who owns a SB ring? RJ or Flutie?

[Gordio]

Maybe it's because he was relegated to the back of the bus his whole, intermittent NFL career. He gets his chance, does well as a starter and gets pulled for a bum like RJ. He was certain that he was a better QB than Slow Robbie, and couldn't hide that opinion (he was right, as we all were painfully made aware over the rest of RJs awful career). I think Flutie has forgotten more about playing the position, or football in genaral, than RJ ever knew.

 

"A locker room dividing prick"? If you can identify any of them, why don't you track down any of the guys who sided with RJ and aske them their opinion in retrospect.

 

He's the only winner at QQB we've had in 10 years and you guys trash him. Amazing.

 

You touch on some good points. The notion that Flutie was hated in the lockerroom & Johnson was this super popular guy was BS. I was watching NFL Network Sunday & they had one hit wonders - top 10. Well RJ was #8. Vic Carrucci, who I think we could all agree has some very good inside knowledge said that most of the teammates did not like RJ & in fact wanted Flutie to play.

 

It is kind of like the same thing with Losman. Everybody thinks he was this great teammate & such, I have 3 inside sources, one of them that is very reliable & he has given me some good information before that have told me most of the players on the Bills could not stand Losman & wanted him out of here. I could care less if anybody believes me on this board but I tend to believe it.

[VOR]

You left out a few minor details in your post. Number one, Flutie did start for the Bills in the playoffs over a healthy RJ against the Dolphins during his Pro Bowl season in '98, and lost that close Wild Card game in the final seconds with a fumble after being caught from behind by a bigger slower Dolphins lineman on their 5 yard line.

 

Then, Flutie received a hefty pay raise from the minimum to about $5 Million Dollars a season, and was named the starting QB for the entire '99 season, in which he led the Bills to a solid 10-5 record before being "rested" for the last meaningless regular season game against the hapless Colts at home. THEN, the Bills screwed him by naming RJ the starter for the WildCard game against the Titans the following week, after Johnson had a great game against the hapless Colts at home.

 

So yes, Flutie got screwed after starting 15 of 16 games in '99. But so what? He came out of nowhere and earned himself 5 Million a year and did everything in his power to prove his worth. He had nothing to be ashamed of, and had no reason to get pissed and divide the locker room and all of that diva crap that the newest Buffalo Bill seems to do with every team he plays for all these years later. Like I said before, it was not Flutie's fault how short he was. But he deserved to play in the NFL his entire career, starting or backing up. No way should he have quit and settled for the CFL just because he needed to be the starter for every game.

The Colts were far from "hapless" in 1999. They were 13-3 and the 2nd seed in the playoffs. In 1998, when Flutie "won" his first game with the Bills, yes the Colts were "hapless," at 3-13.

[Mr. WEO]

There is a huge difference between on-the-field ego, confidence, and simply being a spoiled self-righteous turd. No NFL player should feel he is guaranteed a starting job, and should be happy and proud to earn it, IMO.

 

You paint it as if one has to be either an overwhelming douchebag or a passive pansy. There are plenty of areas between those two.

 

This story The Senator likes to tell is preposterous. Flutie DID start for the Bills. His job wasn't taken away from him. As with his previous NFL stops, the football men in the organization decided he wasn't the answer, and decided to try another, younger and more physically talented guy. Did Flutie think he was guaranteed the Bills starting QB job for life? Perhaps he thought is was a Supreme Court appointment.

 

EDIT: One more thing. Do you think Frank Reich had a huge ego? Did he complain about playing behind Jimbo? There were some who were calling for Frank to got the starting nod, when he QB'd the team so effectively when Jim was injured. I would say Frank had a far better, and more productive, NFL career than Skin Flutie.

 

Frank Reich was playing behind Kelly. Flutie was playing behind Rob Johnson, the worst investment in Bills history. Even "The Dean" should be able to see the difference there.

 

I said he did well. Not that he was a "great NFL QB". If you are reduced to arguing agianst points that I haven't made then you can join the challenged VOR in doing so together.

 

Also, you can say that Reich had a more productive career, but you would be making that up, too.

 

BS, huh?

 

Speaking of: "a lockeroom cancer his entire career"? Where do you come up with this stuff?

[The Dean]

You touch on some good points. The notion that Flutie was hated in the lockerroom & Johnson was this super popular guy was BS.

 

 

Yes, that is BS. Has anyone suggested it?

 

Flutie was a divisive player because he lobbied his teammates to try to get the starting job. Many supported Flutie (whether they liked him is a different question).

 

I don't necessarily think RJ was particularly beloved. But I don't recall hearing that he actively tried to divide the locker room, as did Flutie.

[The Dean]

Speaking of: "a lockeroom cancer his entire career"? Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

 

Where did I say that?

[VOR]

Frank Reich was playing behind Kelly. Flutie was playing behind Rob Johnson, the worst investment in Bills history. Even "The Dean" should be able to see the difference there.

 

I said he did well. Not that he was a "great NFL QB". If you are reduced to arguing agianst points that I haven't made then you can join the challenged VOR in doing so together.

 

Also, you can say that Reich had a more productive career, but you would be making that up, too.

 

BS, huh?

 

Speaking of: "a lockeroom cancer his entire career"? Where do you come up with this stuff?

The point about Flutie being better than the poor RJ is a weak argument, but par for the course for a half wit like you, Mr. WEO. Because his time with the Chargers proved that he wasn't responsible for the Bills winning. Otherwise he would have "just won" there. It's not a hard concept, for people with even half a brain.

 

And Flutie had 20 TD's and 20 turnovers in 1999, a 55% completion rate, and barely eclipsed 3,000 passing. JP had a similar season in 2006 and people were still ready to run him out on a rail.

[Gordio]

Yes, that is BS. Has anyone suggested it?

 

Flutie was a divisive player because he lobbied his teammates to try to get the starting job. Many supported Flutie (whether they liked him is a different question).

 

I don't necessarily think RJ was particularly beloved. But I don't recall hearing that he actively tried to divide the locker room, as did Flutie.

 

Okay, point taken. I guess what I was trying to say is that I bet if you polled the players in that lockerroom most of them wanted the flute to be their qb over RJ, which I know is not really saying much.

[Dan]

The point about Flutie being better than the poor RJ is a weak argument, but par for the course for a half wit like you, Mr. WEO. Because his time with the Chargers proved that he wasn't responsible for the Bills winning. Otherwise he would have "just won" there. It's not a hard concept, for people with even half a brain.

 

And Flutie had 19 TD's and 20 turnovers in 1999, a 55% completion rate, and barely eclipsed 3,000 passing. JP had a better season in 2006 and people were still ready to run him out on a rail.

I've seen this point made by several posters. But, what people are neglecting is that when Flutie got to the Chargers he was on his last leg, both his age and skills were diminishing. Going by this logic, could we assume that Favre is not that great of a QB because last year he threw too many interceptions and couldn't get the Jets to the playoffs? Of course not. We can only conclude that Favre is getting old and needs to retire. Really no different than Flutie in San Diego. By the time he got there he was well past his prime and should have retired. But it really shouldn't reflect his play with any of his previous teams.

[VOR]

I've seen this point made by several posters. But, what people are neglecting is that when Flutie got to the Chargers he was on his last leg, both his age and skills were diminishing. Going by this logic, could we assume that Favre is not that great of a QB because last year he threw too many interceptions and couldn't get the Jets to the playoffs? Of course not. We can only conclude that Favre is getting old and needs to retire. Really no different than Flutie in San Diego. By the time he got there he was well past his prime and should have retired. But it really shouldn't reflect his play with any of his previous teams.

That's a reasonable argument. But who is to say his skills didn't diminish during the 1999 season? Or even prior to joining the Bills? Again his stats in 1999 were far from impressive, most notably his completion percentage.

[BuffaloPride]

I've seen this point made by several posters. But, what people are neglecting is that when Flutie got to the Chargers he was on his last leg, both his age and skills were diminishing. Going by this logic, could we assume that Favre is not that great of a QB because last year he threw too many interceptions and couldn't get the Jets to the playoffs? Of course not. We can only conclude that Favre is getting old and needs to retire. Really no different than Flutie in San Diego. By the time he got there he was well past his prime and should have retired. But it really shouldn't reflect his play with any of his previous teams.

On his last leg huh? Your making this point despite the fact that he threw for a career high 3,464 yds. in 2001 with the Chargers? He's play didn't diminish, he still sucked, only he didn't have the benefit of having a top ranked defense to compensate for his piss poor play.

[extrahammer]

Where is all this divisive player information on Flutie coming from? Rumors? Word of mouth? Hearsay? Comparing him to T.O.? Oh brother....

 

The same people trying to say Flutie led us to the playoffs in 99 are the ones saying Dilfer had little or no effect on the Ravens winning it all. A 12-year old would notice that I was just pointing out the hypocrisy and double standards that Flutie's worshipers are guilty of. Neither one of them was a big factor in their team's success...although Dilfer was actually more of a factor than the midget...because he wasn't playing like an idiot.

As far as bringing up the 98 season, you should try re-reading everyone's posts. People aren't, for the most part, denigrating what Flutie did in 98 (except his choke job in the playoffs), but in 99. He actually contributed a lot to the team winning in 98...but in 99, the defense had to carry the load. We couldn't even rely on Thurman after that short little !@#$ got him injured at the beginning of the season.

 

Oh brother! Sometimes it's just best to let lying dogs lie. Obviously Flutie is in your head.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That's a reasonable argument. But who is to say his skills didn't diminish during the 1999 season? Or even prior to joining the Bills? Again his stats in 1999 were far from impressive, most notably his completion percentage.

Nonetheless, in 2000, the season no one seems to want to include in this discussion, Johnson was the starter and went 4-7. In the games Johnson was injured, Flutie started and went 4-1. For the Bills. In 2000. How is it that our "great defense" was winning these games for Flutie but not for Johnson? Is that divisiveness?

 

BTW, isn't it great how Flutie's detractors cite the following reasons for not liking him:

 

1) He was a divisive little prick. If he was so divisive why did the team go 22-11 with him as the starter (Johnson 7-10 with the same team)? His critics are acting as if they were in the locker room witnessing first hand his "divisiveness"...as if these critics had somehow been personally insulted by Flutie. I truly don't get it.

 

2) I'm turned off by all the Flutie Lovers. So to the many people who were excited to make the playoffs two seasons in a row (and it likely would have been three seasons if Flutie had been the full time starter in 2000), who witnessed the turnaround of the Bills fortunes immediately after he stepped into the lineup in 1998, who believe he saved the franchise, and were happy for the success of the Buffalo Bills, we Flutie backers were so obnoxious in our joy and happiness that you decided that you wanted to hate the man himself?

 

What good reason would any Bills fan have for not being thankful for the success that he brought our team? BTW, Not liking midget quarterbacks, taking someone else's word that he was a prick in the locker room, and thinking that our defense was winning these games (they weren't, look at Flutie's record versus Johnson's), are not good reasons to dislike and disrespect his contributions.

 

I have not yet seen one legit justification for the significant number of people who demonize Flutie. Is it possibly because many of our current fans were in their infancy as Bills fans and don't really remember the events of ten years ago? Is it because the blowhard, never-was coach-turned-broadcaster Chuck Dickerson regularly used this issue to slander Flutie and divide Bills Nation in the name of ratings? I lived in Bflo for 35 years. Attended games and covered the team. Left in 2002. I don't remember any of this hatred for Flutie when I was in Bflo. Petty and small-minded stuff. Bad reflection on the town I love and still call home. I guess Michael Peca and Dominick Hasek could relate to Flutie though.

[C.Biscuit97]

Where is all this divisive player information on Flutie coming from? Rumors? Word of mouth? Hearsay? Comparing him to T.O.? Oh brother....

 

 

 

Oh brother! Sometimes it's just best to let lying dogs lie. Obviously Flutie is in your head.

 

 

Yeah, I wonder the same thing. It easn't coming from Eric Moulds, who had the best season of his career. I mean why would a pro bowl QB who led the team to 2 straight playoffs berths be upset over getting bench for a playoff game? Flutie should have just be a stand up guy and be happy to be a backup to the msot sacked QB in NFL history.

 

But we as Bills fans should trash Flutie. Our history is filled with pro bowl, 2 time playoff leading, exciting QBs. Hating on Flutie is absolutely retarded.

[extrahammer]

1) He was a divisive little prick. If he was so divisive why did the team go 22-11 with him as the starter (Johnson 7-10 with the same team)? His critics are acting as if they were in the locker room witnessing first hand his "divisiveness"...as if these critics had somehow been personally insulted by Flutie. I truly don't get it.

 

2) I'm turned off by all the Flutie Lovers. So to the many people who were excited to make the playoffs two seasons in a row (and it likely would have been three seasons if Flutie had been the full time starter in 2000), who witnessed the turnaround of the Bills fortunes immediately after he stepped into the lineup in 1998, who believe he saved the franchise, and were happy for the success of the Buffalo Bills, we Flutie backers were so obnoxious in our joy and happiness that you decided that you wanted to hate the man himself?

 

1. I'd take a little fiery-ness in the locker room today if it brought us some wins. Sometimes you need your own teammate to slap you in the face.

 

2. Just because someone thinks Flutie was the option on our roster and was better than RJ, doesn't mean they are his lover.

 

All this Flutie bitterness seems to come from deep emotions of the opposers.

[VJ91]

The Colts were far from "hapless" in 1999. They were 13-3 and the 2nd seed in the playoffs. In 1998, when Flutie "won" his first game with the Bills, yes the Colts were "hapless," at 3-13.

 

Wow, you're right. Well they sure played a hapless meaningless game while RJ burned them for over 300 yards passing, "earning" his start the next week against the Titans.