thebandit27 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Wow - 'Bucky's' opinion = proof?????? no more so than that of a blogger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 no more so than that of a blogger Bloggers have no credibility. Professional writers at least have some, as well as accountability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 why do people keep thinking this thread has anything to do with johnson? stop going back to johnson. this thread is about flutie, not johnson. one more time: this thread is about flutie, not johnson. we know flutie was better than johnson. ok? so your response to my assertion that flutie fans should "be objective and look at the numbers" about him is to say that he made the pro bowl and was voted comeback player of the year? nice analysis. You obviously haven't realized that there would have been no QB controversey if RJ was better than Flutie. There would have been no "split locker room". We say Flutie played well in Buffalo (look at the W-L numbers, for one), and you point to his career elsewhere. Nice analysis. Anyway.... Flutie was an intense, competitive, intelligent, athletic guy with a very high level of confidence and a big chip on his shoulder. He had a hard time accepting that he was being walked over by the disaster that was RJ. That's it fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bloggers have no credibility. Professional writers at least have some, as well as accountability. Except the hundred or so who have published all those lies about TO over the years, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 OK, OK, I have had the great misfortune of actually seeing The Flutie Brothers Band at 'Thursday At The Square' and I admit - Rob Johnson was better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Seems like he's good guy Signed by Bills for help Turns out he's A-hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bloggers have no credibility. Professional writers at least have some, as well as accountability. Great - we can now replace "QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM" with " 'Bucky' said so!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bucky was right on in that article. If you ever have a chance to have a private conversation with some of the Bills on that team (especially those that had been stars on the team for some time), ask them what they thought of Flutie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 And the good people of WNY lined up at supermarkets to purchase Flutie Flakes, flutie bars, and those <politically incorrect name removed> You forgot the Flutie subs at Wegmans. I wonder why they don't have Trent subs? Or JP subs before that or Drew subs or RJ subs before that? Maybe Flutie was more marketable? If it sells subs, why not think that it could also sell tickets? Answer: it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Bucky was right on in that article. If you ever have a chance to have a private conversation with some of the Bills on that team (especially those that had been stars on the team for some time), ask them what they thought of Flutie. Sorry - it's just hard for me to take seriously a 'journalist' that calls himself, "Bucky" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 BuffaloPride' date='Jun 19 2009, 06:07 AM' post='1457661'] Yeah, you gotta love the way he magically divided the locker room and got the greatest receiver in Bills history benched because he didn't have the arm strength to hit him on a simple out pattern. His greatest magic trick of all is when he finally disappeared. F^ck him. BuffaloPride's first post. BuffaloPride' date='Jun 19 2009, 07:56 AM' post='1457796'] There's hatred among fans because he was a self serving prick. He reaped the accolades when we won and pointed the finger at others when we lost. He was a media whore who pouted like a little baby when he got benched and started a coup in the locker room in an effort to get his job back. Thruout his career Doug Flutie cared about one thing and that is himself. He was a shameless self promoter. F^ck him in his a$$. BuffaloPride's second post. PromoTheRobot' date='Jun 19 2009, 08:44 AM' post='1457858'] I think "hatred" is too strong a word. I don't think anyone hates Flutie the man, just the cult of Flutie. He was a good player. Exciting to watch. He won some games. He probably saved the franchise when the Bills needed to sell luxury suites and he got people excited about the team again. (Probably his biggest contribution to Buffalo.) But those who elevate him to some god-like stauts need to get a grip. PTR This is one of the most succinct and intelligent of over 300 posts on the subject. However if you look at those posts, very few people (2-3maybe) are saying he's a great quarterback or "god-like." Steely Dan' date='Jun 19 2009, 11:04 AM' post='1458087'] My disgust with Flutie has more to do with his fans than him and he was a self serving little prick. His fans treated him like Mother Theresa. He could do no wrong. They kissed the ground he walked on. They were so maniacal in their defense of him that they became annoying jokes. You can only take so much godlike worship before becoming annoyed. This is the truth that I'm seeing here. People don't like him because of his fans to which I say again, so what? We're all cheering for the same team right? Mr. WEO' date='Jun 19 2009, 11:47 AM' post='1458144'] Very simply, he brought excitement back to a diseased franchise. It was never going to last long, but it was a good time. Why would anyone complain about good times? I'm sure none of these guys were bitching about Flutie back then. That's a good question. Why would anyone complain about a good time. I asked that already but no one has answered it. Beerball' date='Jun 19 2009, 01:15 PM' post='1458244'] It's really not so much that I dislike Flutie...well, I do, but not in a "I hope he gets run over by a rusty truck that dragging a maggot infested smelly dead carcass" kind of way. It's just all you flakes that really piss me off. Again some truth. Flutie haters seem to hate Flutie fans. Flutie fans are grateful for what he did. Why should we be hated? Mr. Fancy Pants' date='Jun 19 2009, 02:45 PM' post='1458313'] Flutie would have been a damn good rickshaw runner........that's about it. Okay. A non-Flutie fan. Flutie bashing. BuffaloPride' date='Jun 20 2009, 06:28 AM' post='1458616'] The hate involves the fact that Flutie was an !@#$. He wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was. End of story. BuffaloPride weighs in again. Steely Dan' date='Jun 20 2009, 11:52 AM' post='1458751'] Right on dude! Flutie worshipers are a big reason a lot of people don't like Flutie. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Don't like Flutie or his fans. Even though his fans are simply grateful for the excitement and success he brought us, rescuing us from some dark times. This is where I would insert the won-lost record of the 2 quarterbacks who had the benefit of the same defense if this post weren't already so damn long. Beerball' date='Jun 20 2009, 08:49 PM' post='1458949'] perhaps if he were a wee bit taller Midget joke. Typical Flutie bashing. Don't like small QBs. I get it. Alaska Darin' date='Jun 21 2009, 07:30 AM' post='1459055'] When the BILLS have a team that's as good as the one that surrounded Flutie, they will win with similar mediocre QB play. Flutie was an average QB on a very good football team. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes Darin but Flutie was 23-11 with the same defense that Rob Johnson was 7-10 with. He was all we had and you should be thankful that we had him or else... BuffaloPride' date='Jun 21 2009, 05:44 PM' post='1459330'] Really? I paid the increase and renewed my seasons that year and I can tell you I didn't do it because of that piece of sh--. I renewed my tickets because, unlike you, I from here and I love my team. There is a tradition in my family of going to Bills games that dates back to when my father took me when I was a kid. When the lease was up for renewal I anted up so I would be able to continue that tradition and be able to take my kids to games as well. God bless the Buffalo Bills...and f^ck Doug Flutie in his worthless a$$. I respect the season ticket tradition thing but as has been pointed out a few times, the lease renewal had more to do with selling luxury seating to corporations. These were not being sold through the first third of the season. Chef Jim' date='Jun 21 2009, 05:54 PM' post='1459339'] I didn't like him and I was not a huge RJ backer. I just didn't like the way he played to position. With him when he went back to pass it always looked like he was thinking run first, pass second. He'd run around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Even if he had taken them to the SB and won it I still would not have liked his style. This is the third thing among those who don't like Flutie. Besides his personality and his fans, people don't like the fact that he was not a prototype quarterback. Cynical' date='Jun 21 2009, 05:55 PM' post='1459340'] What part of "team" don't you get? Suites and tickets were sold because the "team" won. Flutie just happened to be the QB. Why is it so hard to grasp that if the "team" had won without Flutie, the Bills still would have sold the suites, etc ...? Cynical, the team unfortunately could not win without Flutie (23-11 versus 7-10). You are speaking in hypotheticals. There were two quarterbacks on the roster. We were lucky that Flutie was there to allow the Bills to win and sell suites and tickets. Without him it wouldn't have happened. VOR' date='Jun 21 2009, 06:02 PM' post='1459344'] The club seats would have sold, eventually. Ralph would have pushed the deadline back. And you base this on what? It's conjecture on your part and I'm glad we never had to find out if that was true. Alaska Darin' date='Jun 21 2009, 07:04 PM' post='1459376'] Note to Doug Flutie fans: The fact that Doug Flutie was a better QB than Rob Johnson in NO WAY means he was a good NFL QB. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. It's not hard to understand. Again, go over the 300+ posts and dig me out more than 2-3 people saying he was that good. BuffaloPride' date='Jun 21 2009, 07:31 PM' post='1459390'] And with that the Flutie fans grow silent. Nestled in their beds wearing their Doug Flutie jammies, while visions of the Hail Mary pass play over and over in their heads. Never mind the fact that Gerald Phelan was the real hero...just go to sleep. Shhhh...good night. Wow. I and most of the other supporters have not lowered themselves to your level of profanity and mocking of others. Show me comparable disrespect from Flutie's supporters on this post. Until then you have lowered the level of discussion. I'm sorry your name is BuffaloPride. When I think of my hometown of 35 years I choose to forget people who are ignorant, profane, and intolerant. The_Philster' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:19 PM' post='1460071'] maybe if people would stop sucking off the little midget..or if they just realized that football is a team game and it's ignorant as well as insulting to a QB's teammates when you give him credit for wins and losses I'm not sucking him off nor are most of the other supporters. I'm being protective of his contributions to the team. It's important that history is fairly reported and not revised by a negative and virile hatred. Yes it is a team game. With him starting they were 23-11, with him not starting they were 7-10. Again an instance of contempt for those who support Flutie. Why? I don't get it. We're not calling people names here. The_Philster' date='Jun 22 2009, 06:21 PM' post='1460073'] They were #1 in 1999...the year the diminutive one SUCKED like a cheap whore Yeah the defense was great. We were 23-11 with Flutie starting with that defense and 7-10 with the other guy starting with that defense. SteamRoller67' date='Jun 26 2009, 01:43 PM' post='1463733'] He wasn't in evil midget mode that night. Once in a while he's nice to humans when he recruits for his cult. Hmmm. Another slam at the man and those who simply are supportive and grateful for his time here. thebandit27' date='Jun 26 2009, 01:48 PM' post='1463739'] The thread started by praising Flutie, and a reasonable contingent of posters (including myself) responded that we didn't like him. We were asked to list our reasons, which we did--mine are well documented, but come down to 2 things: he wasn't a very good QB, and he wasn't a very good teammate. I really respect the bandit for being honest. He stated his reasons. No Flutie was not a great quarterback. I've never said he was. Yes, he probably wasn't a good teammate but like I said before so what? You'd prefer the other guy was at the controls? The other criticisms...his fans are insufferable. Are they even as bad as the people who attack him and his fans? What is the motivation to do that? Finally I don't like his style of play. Okay. I'd like all my QBs to look like Jay Cutler or Jim Kelly but those guys are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Can't say - I'm not familiar with their body of work. Was it Flutie's supposed 'divisiveness' that bothered them, or the declining play of a 40 year-old QB in the twilight of his career? Both. First article is dated 12/15/01. Chargers are on a 6 game losing streak. During that time, Flutie has scored 5 TDs, but has coughed the ball up 12 times. This article came out the day after a interview with DF appeared in the Orange County Register. During that interview, DF made some rather "questionable" comments. This article also appeared before the 2nd Raiders game. This is not the full article, only excerpts. I have a copy of the full article. I won't post the full article because of copyright and IP rights. Flutie defensive when it comes to offense Published comments don't sit well with some teammates By Jim Trotter UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER December 15, 2001 ... Quarterback Doug Flutie was on the defensive this week, saying the finger of blame shouldn't be pointed at him. But in doing so he singled out kicker Steve Christie and running back LaDainian Tomlinson for playing key roles in last weekend's 24-14 loss at Philadelphia. .... "It's amazing -- I feel like I'm defending myself all the time," Flutie told the newspaper[1]. "I threw for 300 yards (307) last week, ran for 45 and we put 400 yards of offense up against one of the toughest defenses in the league. We just happened to miss a couple of field goals and put ourselves in a situation where we had to come from behind. We fumble the ball[2] and they return it for a touchdown, and I've got to defend myself. Notes: [1] The newspaper being referred to here was the Orange County Register, where the controversial statements originally took place. [2] LT fumbled the ball that was returned for a TD. Notice how Flutie is clear on what "he" produced, and that it was all positive. The implication being if it wasn't for the missed FGs and the fumble, they probably would have won that (Eagles) game. "Reporters come in and try to tell you you're not getting the job done. Then I go in the outside world and it's amazing. It's amazing. People come up to you, tell you what a great job you're doing, how happy they are that you're here in San Diego. There was a poll on ESPN: Who had the biggest influence on their new team this year? I was voted the guy who had the biggest impact and made the biggest difference. I'm third in Pro Bowl balloting right now." [1] [1] The third place DF is referring to is the FAN portion of the Pro Bowl vote. If there was any doubt Flutie was NOT a big time self promoter, and DF was not about DF, then that paragraph removes that doubt. Teammates refused to comment publicly, but privately several said they were bothered that Flutie would single out others without accepting any responsibility himself. [1] He committed three turnovers last week, including a fourth-quarter fumble that led to a field goal for a 10-point Eagles lead. [2]... [1] Teammates refused to comment publicly. I wonder how many of DF Bills teammates were saying the same thing to reporters in Buffalo, those giving the perception the "media" was out to get DF whenever the media said anything negative about DF (i.e Gleasons column) [2] Whoops. Looks like DF forgot to include his 3 turnovers when he was "defending" himself. Interestingly enough, compare that to the Bills playoff game vs the Phins in 98, and how the Flakes like to point out DF's 300+ yards against the Phins D, and if it wasn't for Moulds, or Reed ... Somehow, just like DF, those pesky 3 T/O by the QB himself never get mentioned. When asked about the veracity of the story's quotes, Flutie declined comment and walked away. Coach Mike Riley said Flutie has acknowledged making mistakes this season but couldn't name a particular instance when pressed. [1] He said Flutie has been great to work with, but his face dropped noticeably when he read the quotes in the Register. [1] He couldn't name a particular instance? Maybe because said instance never existed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Cynical, the team unfortunately could not win without Flutie (23-11 versus 7-10). You are speaking in hypotheticals. There were two quarterbacks on the roster. We were lucky that Flutie was there to allow the Bills to win and sell suites and tickets. Without him it wouldn't have happened. You are right, it was hypothetical. But Flutie himself, by himself, never won those games. The team did. There was an example stated earlier (maybe a different thread) about Neil Armstrong being the first person to walk on the moon. I though that was a great example. Because, at no point in history has anybody tried to state that Niel Armstrong was the reason man walked on the moon. Was there other astronauts on board? Yes. Neil was the first, but not the reason. Now compare/contrast that with your and other posters insistence "Doug Flutie saved the franchise". Do that knowing full well a team that is winning, regardless of who is playing, generates ticket sales. If you still believe Doug Flutie saved the franchise, then we better start saying Neil Armstrong was the reason man walked on the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Both. First article is dated 12/15/01. Chargers are on a 6 game losing streak. During that time, Flutie has scored 5 TDs, but has coughed the ball up 12 times. This article came out the day after a interview with DF appeared in the Orange County Register. During that interview, DF made some rather "questionable" comments. This article also appeared before the 2nd Raiders game. This is not the full article, only excerpts. I have a copy of the full article. I won't post the full article because of copyright and IP rights. Notes: [1] The newspaper being referred to here was the Orange County Register, where the controversial statements originally took place. [2] LT fumbled the ball that was returned for a TD. Notice how Flutie is clear on what "he" produced, and that it was all positive. The implication being if it wasn't for the missed FGs and the fumble, they probably would have won that (Eagles) game. [1] The third place DF is referring to is the FAN portion of the Pro Bowl vote. If there was any doubt Flutie was NOT a big time self promoter, and DF was not about DF, then that paragraph removes that doubt. [1] Teammates refused to comment publicly. I wonder how many of DF Bills teammates were saying the same thing to reporters in Buffalo, those giving the perception the "media" was out to get DF whenever the media said anything negative about DF (i.e Gleasons column) [2] Whoops. Looks like DF forgot to include his 3 turnovers when he was "defending" himself. Interestingly enough, compare that to the Bills playoff game vs the Phins in 98, and how the Flakes like to point out DF's 300+ yards against the Phins D, and if it wasn't for Moulds, or Reed ... Somehow, just like DF, those pesky 3 T/O by the QB himself never get mentioned. [1] He couldn't name a particular instance? Maybe because said instance never existed? I'm not buying in. Sounds to me like a guy who hates to lose, and also maybe sick & tired of folks laying the blame solely on him. Folks seem to want to single out Flutie for criticizing some key errors while overlooking his own, and call it 'self-promotion' and 'divisiveness', but there was another Bills QB that did the same thing... "The 'Bickering Bills' built a dynasty on internecine squabbling, reaching four straight Super Bowls in the early 1990s. The Bills may have had more feuds per capita than any other team. First, quarterback Jim Kelly called offensive lineman Howard Ballard a "weak link" for allowing a sack. Then running back Thurman Thomas criticized Kelly for criticizing Ballard. Asked in an interview to identify the team's weakest position, Thomas replied, "Quarterback." When he wasn't bad-mouthing his line and his backfield, Kelly had running feuds with wide receivers Andre Reed and Chris Burkett. Many believe Burkett was cut at Kelly's prompting. On defense, there were sideline fights between Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett. And two Bills assistant coaches got into a fistfight while watching game film." link ...yet I don't see anyone bashing that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloPride Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm not buying in. Sounds to me like a guy who hates to lose, and also maybe sick & tired of folks laying the blame solely on him. Folks seem to want to single out Flutie for criticizing some key errors while overlooking his own, and call it 'self-promotion' and 'divisiveness', but there was another Bills QB that did the same thing... "The 'Bickering Bills' built a dynasty on internecine squabbling, reaching four straight Super Bowls in the early 1990s. The Bills may have had more feuds per capita than any other team. First, quarterback Jim Kelly called offensive lineman Howard Ballard a "weak link" for allowing a sack. Then running back Thurman Thomas criticized Kelly for criticizing Ballard. Asked in an interview to identify the team's weakest position, Thomas replied, "Quarterback." When he wasn't bad-mouthing his line and his backfield, Kelly had running feuds with wide receivers Andre Reed and Chris Burkett. Many believe Burkett was cut at Kelly's prompting. On defense, there were sideline fights between Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett. And two Bills assistant coaches got into a fistfight while watching game film." link ...yet I don't see anyone bashing that guy. Umm..we did bash Kelly at the time. Remember fans heckling him so bad after a loss he gave them the finger. Kelly was young at the time and didn't know better. He learned, and played a major roll in guiding us to 4 superbowls. What was Fluties excuse? Was he young? Did he not know better? Did he guide us to any superbowls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) I'm not buying in. Sounds to me like a guy who hates to lose, and also maybe sick & tired of folks laying the blame solely on him. Yeah, god knows a QB rating of 57, 12 turnovers and only 5 TDs during that losing streak makes him exempt. Was he the sole reason? NO. Did he accept ANY amount of responsibility? NO. Prior to that, did any of Flutie's team mates point out his crappy performance or his numerous mistakes? NO. Folks seem to want to single out Flutie for criticizing some key errors while overlooking his own, and call it 'self-promotion' and 'divisiveness', but there was another Bills QB that did the same thing... "The 'Bickering Bills' built a dynasty on internecine squabbling, reaching four straight Super Bowls in the early 1990s. The Bills may have had more feuds per capita than any other team. First, quarterback Jim Kelly called offensive lineman Howard Ballard a "weak link" for allowing a sack. Then running back Thurman Thomas criticized Kelly for criticizing Ballard. Asked in an interview to identify the team's weakest position, Thomas replied, "Quarterback." When he wasn't bad-mouthing his line and his backfield, Kelly had running feuds with wide receivers Andre Reed and Chris Burkett. Many believe Burkett was cut at Kelly's prompting. On defense, there were sideline fights between Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett. And two Bills assistant coaches got into a fistfight while watching game film." link ...yet I don't see anyone bashing that guy. IIRC, all of that took place in 1989. And either you do not remember too well, or choose to forget, but Kelly was crucified. By fans and media alike. It had gotten to the point where Polian spouted his infamous Kelly is our QB, Levy is our coach, and Marchibroda is our OC. "And if you don't like it, get out of town" rant. Also, IIRC, Kelly later apologized for his comments, and ended up changing his behavior. He no longer spoke in 3rd person when referring to himself. He no longer was quick to "blame" others for their mistakes. Did DF change his behavior after Buffalo? Apparently he did not. He learned nothing from that experience. Edited July 1, 2009 by Cynical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Umm..we did bash Kelly at the time. Remember fans heckling him so bad after a loss he gave them the finger. Kelly was young at the time and didn't know better. He learned, and played a major roll in guiding us to 4 superbowls. What was Fluties excuse? Was he young? Did he not know better? Did he guide us to any superbowls? Umm, I think that's one of the points in this never-ending thread - the Bills benched Flutie once he got us to the playoffs. We'll never know what might have been, since Wade opted to bench Flutie in favor in RJ. Or do I have that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Except the hundred or so who have published all those lies about TO over the years, eh? Who said they lied when it came to TO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm not buying in. Sounds to me like a guy who hates to lose, and also maybe sick & tired of folks laying the blame solely on him. Hmmmm. Sounds suspiciously like another player. Except that said other player is a future HOF'er, and Flutie is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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