RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Careful, RJ, you sounded pretty smart just then. Overeducated homer indeed. Oh, right.... thanks for reminding me. *beating on chest* Me no drink kool-aid! Me wanted 21st pick for Peters or me say Brandon no smart! Me know better!
BillsVet Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Many people think that being gloomy all the time shows how smart they are. A psychologist would add that it is a way for people who have less control over their daily lives to present an image of critical clarity. I'll tell you why I'm pessimistic about this franchise: 0 for 9 in making the playoffs. The OL is a microcosm for this team: make changes, cut costs, get some rookies and pronounce it better. When it doesn't work, spin why it didn't work and add some cosmetic changes for the next season. Many of the same people who advocated signing Dockery, Fowler, Reyes, etc, still remain. What about their track record suggests the current moves will work? If you're confident that Modrak and Guy (the principal personnel advisors to Brandon) somehow hit multiple homers this off-season, well, I don't know why. Call me a doubting Thomas, but I need to see it on the field before I'll stump for the powers that be at OBD.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Well I think a better way to have gone with the draft would have been to trade Peters and that trade the third round pick and pick number 28 to trade up for Oher. Than use the fourth and pick 42 to try and pick up Wood and sit tight and take Nelson with the fourth. So our o-line would be Oher-Wood-Hangartner-Butler-Walker which to me at least is better than what we have now. And we still get Maybin and Nelson to address other needs. I know its being a Monday morning QB knowing how the draft shook out but while Oher was still available down around pick 20 I was shouting at my TV (Ok not really but I did want to) for the Bills to trade up and get him. Who knows maybe they tried but those teams wanted too much. Either way I am happy the Bills put two day one picks into the o-line and still managed to pick up other pieces. I know there is a lot wrong with Oher but I think that if this staff could have made Peters into something than they could have shaped Oher into a great player. Peters was a tightend who became a very good LT Oher was a great college LT who just needed help with mastering play books and fine tuning other parts of his game. Oher to me would have been a great fit at around pick number 20 due to the value. I don't really know about Oher other than what I have read. What I read about him did not excite me. I am not in favor of trading up in general & am glad the Bills drafted 2 highly rated Guards rather than an average Tackle.
ganesh Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Mike Gandy started in the Super Bowl. LT is a very overrated position and Peters became overrated too. Perspnally, I'd rather have a o-line that is hungry to win & prove themselves than someone who is just hungry for $. I don't blame Peters for that, but I don't blame the Bills for moving him either. Let's turn the page. This line will be better than it was in 2008. Bingo...This is clearly to send a message that no one's place on the team is guaranteed. Players must earn their spot and pay check.
ganesh Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I'm glad you have so much confidence in an OL where there will be five new starters at their respective positions, including two rookies. It's not a slam dunk that it's better than 08, 07, or even 06. They'll need to get up to speed really fast. I don't think it is confidence in the new OL as much as not much confidence in the past line. We needed to make changes to a line that did not have any push up front for the running game, Peters included.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I'll tell you why I'm pessimistic about this franchise: 0 for 9 in making the playoffs. The OL is a microcosm for this team: make changes, cut costs, get some rookies and pronounce it better. When it doesn't work, spin why it didn't work and add some cosmetic changes for the next season. Many of the same people who advocated signing Dockery, Fowler, Reyes, etc, still remain. What about their track record suggests the current moves will work? If you're confident that Modrak and Guy (the principal personnel advisors to Brandon) somehow hit multiple homers this off-season, well, I don't know why. Call me a doubting Thomas, but I need to see it on the field before I'll stump for the powers that be at OBD. OK Thomas..... Seriously, the question is not simply whether one has faith or not. I personally have no idea whether the Bills will be any better this season than last season. No one does. One can hope if one likes, or not. Hope is not a bad thing to have; indeed, it is all that we have. The world is a horrible, awful place full of suffering and misery. Most people die frightened and alone, never accomplishing any of the things they set out to do in their lives. In order to help us get through the yawning awfulness of life on earth, people fortunate enough to have leisure time and disposable income choose to entertain themselves by doing sudoku puzzles, or watching Marx Brothers movies, or following football. Of those people who follow football, a small fraction, mostly people who by cosmic accident grew up in Western New York, follow the Bills. They are happy when the Bills win; sad when they lose. What brings joy is the hope that each new season, each new game, each new play brings. A fraction of those Bills fans visits message boards like this one, to see what is up and to discuss questions of mutual interest. Considering all that, the question is whether choosing to spend one's time contributing to every thread by saying how feculent everything is can be considered realism. If it makes you happy, then good for you. Choosing not to do so does not make me or anyone else a stooge or a kool-aid drinker. It just makes me someone who chooses hope over despair in this small corner of the universe. Go Bills!
Booster4324 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 OK Thomas..... Seriously, the question is not simply whether one has faith or not. I personally have no idea whether the Bills will be any better this season than last season. No one does. One can hope if one likes, or not. Hope is not a bad thing to have; indeed, it is all that we have. The world is a horrible, awful place full of suffering and misery. Most people die frightened and alone, never accomplishing any of the things they set out to do in their lives. In order to help us get through the yawning awfulness of life on earth, people fortunate enough to have leisure time and disposable income choose to entertain themselves by doing sudoku puzzles, or watching Marx Brothers movies, or following football. Of those people who follow football, a small fraction, mostly people who by cosmic accident grew up in Western New York, follow the Bills. They are happy when the Bills win; sad when they lose. What brings joy is the hope that each new season, each new game, each new play brings. A fraction of those Bills fans visits message boards like this one, to see what is up and to discuss questions of mutual interest. Considering all that, the question is whether choosing to spend one's time contributing to every thread by saying how feculent everything is can be considered realism. If it makes you happy, then good for you. Choosing not to do so does not make me or anyone else a stooge or a kool-aid drinker. It just makes me someone who chooses hope over despair in this small corner of the universe. Go Bills! Nice post
BillsVet Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 OK Thomas..... Seriously, the question is not simply whether one has faith or not. I personally have no idea whether the Bills will be any better this season than last season. No one does. One can hope if one likes, or not. Hope is not a bad thing to have; indeed, it is all that we have. The world is a horrible, awful place full of suffering and misery. Most people die frightened and alone, never accomplishing any of the things they set out to do in their lives. In order to help us get through the yawning awfulness of life on earth, people fortunate enough to have leisure time and disposable income choose to entertain themselves by doing sudoku puzzles, or watching Marx Brothers movies, or following football. Of those people who follow football, a small fraction, mostly people who by cosmic accident grew up in Western New York, follow the Bills. They are happy when the Bills win; sad when they lose. What brings joy is the hope that each new season, each new game, each new play brings. A fraction of those Bills fans visits message boards like this one, to see what is up and to discuss questions of mutual interest. Considering all that, the question is whether choosing to spend one's time contributing to every thread by saying how feculent everything is can be considered realism. If it makes you happy, then good for you. Choosing not to do so does not make me or anyone else a stooge or a kool-aid drinker. It just makes me someone who chooses hope over despair in this small corner of the universe. Go Bills! Of course no one has any idea how the Bills will do, but it's safe to say there are indications that a team will be good and those which will not be. If you're a fan of the Patsies, it's probably safe to say you expect your team to be a perennial playoff team. Ditto for NYG, PIT, SD, IND, and a few others. All of those teams were built by drafting well and using UFA effectively. And then there are clubs like TB, DET, OAK, CLE among others who are rebuilding or marginal as is. I would count Buffalo among that team, given their strength is at the specialty positions: WR, RB, and CB. You cannot say they're strong at OL and DL, like most dominant teams are. I, along with many others who visit this board, am certainly permitted to remain a fan and criticize an organization which has delivered so very little this decade. If you can't understand that hope isn't enough for fans who demand results amid 9 seasons of wilderness, well, keep on hoping. This self-righteousness which permeates your argument remains shallow and misses the entire point. Rather, there are fans who, at some point, demand accountability after repeated failures on the field and in management. In your mind, complaining is bothersome and reality (the team's failures) should not be highlighted because the mere "hope" of success is possible. I certainly don't use the Bills to leave reality, as some do. Now, I can't wait to get the old, "if you aren't optimistic, don't follow the team" post. And for the record, I don't think the world is a terrible place. It's a wonderful place, and I won't be swayed by what the MSM tells me on a daily basis.
Christopher Capolupo Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I could've bought stock in Microsoft and AOL. PTR My Dad could have wore a condom.. A$$whole
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Not to beat a dead horse too much, but it occurred to me in looking at our current proposed starters that this team could have been a ton better and a sure fire playoff contender if they had simply found a way to keep Peters, draft Maybin, trade our second and third to move up to take Eric Wood late in the first and then use our 4th to take Nelson. I know that your post is mainly about keeping Peters and the affect that would have on the O-line, but you did drop in "draft Maybin" as if that's a good thing. I am taking a skeptical, wait-and-see approach with that #11 overall pick. Maybin has to prove that he belongs in the NFL as a DE. I really do not like his size/weight. Preseason is just around the corner, and I will be looking forward to evaluating AM. However, at this point, I don't see him being the surefire success that some people believe he is. ...And please save the Jason Taylor references. They are not the same person. Maybin lovers immediately point to Jason Taylor in defense of Maybin. By that logic, any QB drafted in the 6th round is destined to become Tom Brady.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Of course you are a fan. I never said otherwise. And of course the Bills have a lot of weaknesses. Never denied that either. The MSM thing made me laugh out loud. You know so little about my political or social beliefs, yet you assume that because I disagree with you that you can make such assumptions, which say a lot more about you than about me. Demand all the results you want, but I have to ask: You say you don't "use the Bills to leave reality." So, spending your time obsessing about a bunch of people you have never met who knock the snot out of each other for a living constitutes reality? To each his own. For me, sports are the toy department of life. Of course no one has any idea how the Bills will do, but it's safe to say there are indications that a team will be good and those which will not be. If you're a fan of the Patsies, it's probably safe to say you expect your team to be a perennial playoff team. Ditto for NYG, PIT, SD, IND, and a few others. All of those teams were built by drafting well and using UFA effectively. And then there are clubs like TB, DET, OAK, CLE among others who are rebuilding or marginal as is. I would count Buffalo among that team, given their strength is at the specialty positions: WR, RB, and CB. You cannot say they're strong at OL and DL, like most dominant teams are. I, along with many others who visit this board, am certainly permitted to remain a fan and criticize an organization which has delivered so very little this decade. If you can't understand that hope isn't enough for fans who demand results amid 9 seasons of wilderness, well, keep on hoping. This self-righteousness which permeates your argument remains shallow and misses the entire point. Rather, there are fans who, at some point, demand accountability after repeated failures on the field and in management. In your mind, complaining is bothersome and reality (the team's failures) should not be highlighted because the mere "hope" of success is possible. I certainly don't use the Bills to leave reality, as some do. Now, I can't wait to get the old, "if you aren't optimistic, don't follow the team" post. And for the record, I don't think the world is a terrible place. It's a wonderful place, and I won't be swayed by what the MSM tells me on a daily basis.
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Walker's going to have to play pretty crappy to give up as many sacks as Peter's did last year. Why don't we just wait and see what happens. I think its crazy how much we cry over Peters, considering he didn't even play that great last year. Its like we accept Peter's own self promo after we of all people should know how much he messed up last year. I'll go out on a limb, the 2009 Bills will play better on the OL with both pass and run blocking even with 5 new people at all the positions.
billsfan89 Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 I don't really know about Oher other than what I have read. What I read about him did not excite me. I am not in favor of trading up in general & am glad the Bills drafted 2 highly rated Guards rather than an average Tackle. Well I would have wanted the Bills to use the 42nd pick on a guard but don't get me wrong I like them getting two top picks on the o-line. In my opinion I thought the draft process was driving Oher's value down for no real reason. The biggest knock on the guy was that he had a learning disability but he got by in one of the tougher conferences in college despite that. I thought Oher was a much better value at around pick 20 due to the fact that he has the physical skills to be a good LT in the NFL. Oher was dominant in College and other than his mental capacity (I think he is just about as smart as Peters) he had no reason to why it wouldn't translate into the NFL. Once again I like the picks but would have loved the Bills to have added Oher at around pick 20 because a guy like him in next years draft would have likely required a top ten pick. Considering what we did with Peters we could have easily worked with Oher and turned him into the cornerstone of the line. No point in worrying about it now.
BuffaloBill Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Peters trade is water under the bridge - time to look forward. For the record I was very opposed to the trade. It is now history and only time will tell if the Bills made the correct moves - let's hope so - if not we can look for another few years of sucking because we have no o-line.
The Big Cat Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 I'll tell you why I'm pessimistic about this franchise: 0 for 9 in making the playoffs. They're actually 13-39. Rather, there are fans who, at some point, demand accountability after repeated failures on the field and in management. Dude, I know this America, and while freedom and liberty might get your rocks off, The Buffalo Bills Franchise is NOT a Democracy. And you, a fan, have no--repeat, no--say in what does or doesn't happen at OBD. So what are you fans demanding, and whom are you demanding it from? I suppose you could boycott games. But I ask you: does a face really need its nose? This self-righteousness which permeates your argument remains shallow and misses the entire point. No it doesn't. In fact it illustrates the point quite eloquently, it's a shame the point eludes you, so: The point: you like to piss in everyone's Corn Flakes, and it gets old.
BillsVet Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 They're actually 13-39. This is something I've pointed out ad nauseam. But we're not talking about 1970-2000. We're talking about the 21st century, 2001-present day. Because many of the same people running the organization from 01 forward are still here. The point: you like to piss in everyone's Corn Flakes, and it gets old. Let's turn this around, shall we? If you don't care about the results on the field, why do you follow the team? Because if results are unimportant, there is absolutely no reason to follow professional sports. And I'm not referring to demanding a title every year, which is completely unrealistic. I'm talking about seeing something, as in a playoff appearance, every now and then.
The Big Cat Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Let's turn this around, shall we? If you don't care about the results on the field, why do you follow the team? Because if results are unimportant, there is absolutely no reason to follow professional sports. Just because I'm ever-hopeful doesn't mean I don't care about results, man. I don't know how you made that connection.
SteamRoller67 Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Well I think a better way to have gone with the draft would have been to trade Peters and that trade the third round pick and pick number 28 to trade up for Oher. Than use the fourth and pick 42 to try and pick up Wood and sit tight and take Nelson with the fourth. So our o-line would be Oher-Wood-Hangartner-Butler-Walker which to me at least is better than what we have now. And we still get Maybin and Nelson to address other needs. I know its being a Monday morning QB knowing how the draft shook out but while Oher was still available down around pick 20 I was shouting at my TV (Ok not really but I did want to) for the Bills to trade up and get him. Who knows maybe they tried but those teams wanted too much. Either way I am happy the Bills put two day one picks into the o-line and still managed to pick up other pieces. I know there is a lot wrong with Oher but I think that if this staff could have made Peters into something than they could have shaped Oher into a great player. Peters was a tightend who became a very good LT Oher was a great college LT who just needed help with mastering play books and fine tuning other parts of his game. Oher to me would have been a great fit at around pick number 20 due to the value. That sounds great and I wish that scenario could have played out, but Wood wasn't getting out of the first round. The 4th and 42nd pick wasn't going to get it done. I'm personally not a big Michael Oher fan, but what does the opinion of an over the hill desk jockey matter! I like the Bills '09 draft on the whole..hopefully these new earth moving interior lineman can dominate for years to come.
The Big Cat Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 That sounds great and I wish that scenario could have played out, but Wood wasn't getting out of the first round. The 4th and 42nd pick wasn't going to get it done. I'm personally not a big Michael Oher fan, but what does the opinion of an over the hill desk jockey matter! I like the Bills '09 draft on the whole..hopefully these new earth moving interior lineman can dominate for years to come. I'm at a loss as to why people are fixated with the tackle position when were dominated last year by 3-4 defenses UP THE MIDDLE. That being said, I too share your optimism in our interior earth movers.
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Remember that first statement this season. BTW, Ask Boomer Esiason how must he loved Anthony Munoz. Ditto for Joe Montana and Steve Wallace. Eli Manning and Dave Diehl. McNabb for Tra Thomas all those years. Hasselbeck for Walter Jones. Marino for Richmond Webb. If LT wasn't an especially important position, it's ironic that 1/4 of NFL teams drafted guys in the first round to play the position. In the past two years, Miami, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Denver, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Chicago and Houston have selected guys to play LT for them. It is an extremely important position. And I believe we'll see Walker getting blocking help from a TE frequently this year. I'm glad you have so much confidence in an OL where there will be five new starters at their respective positions, including two rookies. It's not a slam dunk that it's better than 08, 07, or even 06. They'll need to get up to speed really fast. Having an average LT (in Buffalo's case they don't even have that) was adequate for the 9-7 Cardinals last year because they played in a bad division, had great talent in other areas, and had the ball bounce their way just enough in the playoffs. If they had the ability to replace Gandy with a stud LT, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
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