Schobel94 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 i just saw this on NFL network and at number 6 for the greatest innovation to the NFL was the BENGALS no-huddle offense with boomer esiason. they said the bengals invented it in the late 80's and marv levy (after informing the comissioner that it was illegal) then "stole" it. they had boomer on there saying that he resented marv for steeling it and going to the next four superbowls. they then showed some highlights about the bills for 2 seconds, mentioned chicken wings and then went on to say that peyton manning revolutionized the no-huddle. all in all they basically denied that the bills invented it, called marv levy a cheater, and then gave peyton manning credit for revolutionizing the offense (thats not to say he doesn't run it very well) but they could have at least given us this little tid-bit in NFL history, now all we have is OJ Simpson and not for his 2,000 yard season...WTF?
Max997 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 they're right, the Bills didnt invent it and Peyton and the Colts have taken it to another level whats the problem
Lori Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Um, yeah, that pretty much covers it. Except for the fact that the Bengals' version -- the "sugar" huddle in particular -- was willfully designed to catch the defense with too many men on the field if they tried to substitute. That's why Levy complained to the league, and he was right. The K-Gun didn't need chicanery; with three Hall of Famers (and counting) on the field, they merely ran the defense ragged. Oh, and <bleep> Boomer. One of my favorite Bruce Smith sacks was a decleater on Norman, after he'd moved on to the Jets.
Guffalo Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 they're right, the Bills didnt invent it and Peyton and the Colts have taken it to another level whats the problem They were right, Marv and company didnt invent it, they improved it (under Polian), Manning and Harrison and co. perfected it. No harm no foul, look at the personnel, Harrison played like Andre, the Rbs, (pick one) played like Thurman, and Manning is a more physical version of JK. The thing that you have to understand is, Cincinnati displayed it, Buffalo improved it, and Indianapolis perfected it. Buffalo had a 4 -6 year run with it, which is pretty much the prime years of the players we had, don't get your panties in a bunch.
Max997 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 and Manning is a more physical version of JK couldnt disagree more with that statement...did you even watch Jim Kelly play
Steely Dan Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 i just saw this on NFL network and at number 6 for the greatest innovation to the NFL was the BENGALS no-huddle offense with boomer esiason. they said the bengals invented it in the late 80's and marv levy (after informing the comissioner that it was illegal) then "stole" it. they had boomer on there saying that he resented marv for steeling it and going to the next four superbowls. they then showed some highlights about the bills for 2 seconds, mentioned chicken wings and then went on to say that peyton manning revolutionized the no-huddle. all in all they basically denied that the bills invented it, called marv levy a cheater, and then gave peyton manning credit for revolutionizing the offense (thats not to say he doesn't run it very well) but they could have at least given us this little tid-bit in NFL history, now all we have is OJ Simpson and not for his 2,000 yard season...WTF? It's true but Lori's clarified it. Um, yeah, that pretty much covers it. Except for the fact that the Bengals' version -- the "sugar" huddle in particular -- was willfully designed to catch the defense with too many men on the field if they tried to substitute. That's why Levy complained to the league, and he was right. The K-Gun didn't need chicanery; with three Hall of Famers (and counting) on the field, they merely ran the defense ragged. Oh, and <bleep> Boomer. One of my favorite Bruce Smith sacks was a decleater on Norman, after he'd moved on to the Jets. They were right, Marv and company didnt invent it, they improved it (under Polian), Manning and Harrison and co. perfected it. No harm no foul, look at the personnel, Harrison played like Andre, the Rbs, (pick one) played like Thurman, and Manning is a more physical version of JK. The thing that you have to understand is, Cincinnati displayed it, Buffalo improved it, and Indianapolis perfected it. Buffalo had a 4 -6 year run with it, which is pretty much the prime years of the players we had, don't get your panties in a bunch. You do know that Kelly was recruited by Paterno to be a linebacker at Penn State, right? Kelly was a QB with a linebackers body. Kelly laid a hit on a guy who intercepted one of his passes, I forget who, and unintentionally broke his leg.
Schobel94 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Posted June 13, 2009 Sure the Bengals invented it, but the Bills established it and refined it mostly because esiason didn't stay with the bengals for too long after that. and how has peyton manning taken it to the next level? I have a lot of respect for peyton but he has not taken the no-huddle to the next level (i'm not sure it even has a next level). sure teams can run different versions of it depending on the athleticism of the tightend and the skill positions but to completely take it to another level doesn't seem to be possible. its not like the colts have replaced the founding principles of the no-huddle (not allowing the defensive substitutions, calling out plays at the line based on defensive formations, tiring the defense and slowing the pass rush, ect.). you can build off of these principles but this is what defines the no-huddle. how could you not give the bills credit? infact any credit we would have recieved was not only not given but they took it to the next level by calling levy a cheater. did levy do it and was it sleezy? i guess but thats open for debate (even though this is the first time i have ever heard it), but to call him an out right cheater...? they don't even call Belichick a cheater and he did cheat!
May Day 10 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 wasnt it Marchibroda who really fine tuned the no huddle into a machine? The Bengals were the first team I remember using it, but they saw mild success. I dont think anyone has ever used it as exclusively as Buffalo did in the heyday.
Max997 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 one of the things the Colts did was imploy TE's that they also line up as WRs depening on the defensive package. If the defense is in a nickel the Colts line the TE on the line of scrimmage and run and if the defense lines up in a standard defense they line the TE up as a WR creating mismtaches based on personal...they do this throughout the game and not just for a few plays the Colts also line up at the line of scrimmage and have 3 plays sent in with Peyton deciding which one to run after reading the defense
Max997 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 wasnt it Marchibroda who really fine tuned the no huddle into a machine? The Bengals were the first team I remember using it, but they saw mild success. I dont think anyone has ever used it as exclusively as Buffalo did in the heyday. Marchibroda was the man and the KGun was never the same after he left the Bills ran a more faced paced version then the Bengals or the Colts
VOR Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Lori is right. The Bungles only did it to draw penalties. The Bills did it to play their best 11 against others' best 11. And Peyton has only "taken it to another level" because the passing game has been opened-up since the late 90's. And as for being tougher, I'd like to have seen him and Brady play when you couldn't ground the ball outside the tackle box. It's just too bad that the Bills never faced a team as weak as the 2006 Bears in the SB.
Paup 1995MVP Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 It's true but Lori's clarified it. You do know that Kelly was recruited by Paterno to be a linebacker at Penn State, right? Kelly was a QB with a linebackers body. Kelly laid a hit on a guy who intercepted one of his passes, I forget who, and unintentionally broke his leg. Anthony Phillips-DB for the Falcons. That was a tremendous game at the Ralph in the 95 season I believe. Kurt Schultz intercepted Jeff George in the end zone to seal the victory.
Schobel94 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Posted June 13, 2009 one of the things the Colts did was imploy TE's that they also line up as WRs depening on the defensive package. If the defense is in a nickel the Colts line the TE on the line of scrimmage and run and if the defense lines up in a standard defense they line the TE up as a WR creating mismtaches based on personal...they do this throughout the game and not just for a few plays the Colts also line up at the line of scrimmage and have 3 plays sent in with Peyton deciding which one to run after reading the defense true, dallas clark is faster and quicker than metzlarz and McKeller even though McKeller was stronger and seemed to knock heads when tackled. IMO though this is just a variation of the no-huddle and with the "true" fullback no longer really existing you can draft guys like Cooley (redskins) and still have 4 wide with a single backfield. its not a necessity to have the athletic tight ends because "true" tight ends are still being used effectively in the NFL today where as its better for a team to have a pass catching fullback. personally i would rather have the pass catching full back like cooley and have an extra blocker up on the line who occasionally can run routes but thats just me.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 To point to the beginning and the end as a ways of recounting history is pretty shallow stuff. Technically the NFL Network is right but (and I didn't see it) if they gave short shrift to a very large and significant chunk of NFL history (the Bills and the K-Gun) then they are misreporting. History evolves over a period of time, it's not two snapshots 20 years apart. The Bills were the first team to use a no huddle concept as their base, full time offense and with it they became one of the great offensive teams in NFL history. The NFL Network does a lot of good stuff. If the piece is as bad as it sounds then it's too bad that whoever produced the piece allowed our place in history to be trivialized.
Steely Dan Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Um, yeah, that pretty much covers it. Except for the fact that the Bengals' version -- the "sugar" huddle in particular -- was willfully designed to catch the defense with too many men on the field if they tried to substitute. That's why Levy complained to the league, and he was right. The K-Gun didn't need chicanery; with three Hall of Famers (and counting) on the field, they merely ran the defense ragged. Oh, and <bleep> Boomer. One of my favorite Bruce Smith sacks was a decleater on Norman, after he'd moved on to the Jets. At .55 of this video Bruce has a hit on Elway that probably made him unable to bend at the waist for a month! There's a great hit on Young too! There are hits on Norman but not the one you're talking about. I'm still looking for it.
Nanker Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 At .55 of this video Bruce has a hit on Elway that probably made him unable to bend at the waist for a month! There's a great hit on Young too! There are hits on Norman but not the one you're talking about. I'm still looking for it. Is this it?
Steely Dan Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Is this it? I saw that video. Does anyone know why this happened?
BillsWatch Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Anthony Phillips-DB for the Falcons. That was a tremendous game at the Ralph in the 95 season I believe. Kurt Schultz intercepted Jeff George in the end zone to seal the victory. Correct on both. I was at that game. Sunday, November 12, 1995 Week 11: Atlanta Falcons @ Buffalo Bills Anthony Phillips intercepted Kelly's pass breaking a 172 interception-free streak (to those who think that must be close to a NFL, not even close - Jeff George had a 279 interception-free streak end in previous year and that isn't even the record) near goal line and went to near midfield for 43 yards before Jim Kelly tracked him down, tackled him snapping his leg and then stepped on the leg as it went sideways. Kurt 'the enforcer' Schultz intercepted Jeff George (yep, same George) in the end zone on the final play to seal the victory. By the way attendance at the game was only 62,690
Paup 1995MVP Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Correct on both. I was at that game. Sunday, November 12, 1995 Week 11: Atlanta Falcons @ Buffalo Bills Anthony Phillips intercepted Kelly's pass breaking a 172 interception-free streak (to those who think that must be close to a NFL, not even close - Jeff George had a 279 interception-free streak end in previous year and that isn't even the record) near goal line and went to near midfield for 43 yards before Jim Kelly tracked him down, tackled him snapping his leg and then stepped on the leg as it went sideways. Kurt 'the enforcer' Schultz intercepted Jeff George (yep, same George) in the end zone on the final play to seal the victory. By the way attendance at the game was only 62,690 I believe that was the end of Anthony Phillips career if I am not mistaken. He was really never able to come back completely from such a devastating injury. And I think the guy was a pretty good player. Thanks for the nice recap of that game. It was actually quite an exciting game, as most of our games used to be.
BillsWatch Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I believe that was the end of Anthony Phillips career if I am not mistaken. He was really never able to come back completely from such a devastating injury. And I think the guy was a pretty good player. Thanks for the nice recap of that game. It was actually quite an exciting game, as most of our games used to be. I have heard that before but I have also seen a number of sites list him as playing and starting in 1996 and 1998. i.e. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PhilAn20.htm http://www.nfl.com/players/anthonyphillips...le?id=PHI118030 He was never in NFL a great interception CB with Jim Kelly's throw being his 2nd and last interception and only return. He never played a full season - before or after injury.
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