PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Just watched a report on CNN and the reporter was outraged at how the elderly Lady was handled. I'm sure your opinion is shared by thousands if not millions of people, if you folks could only come up with a good reason why the elderly should be able to get away with things that others can't you might actually have something. Let me ask you this, how many elderly folks will see this video and say to themselves, well I know I've got a temper and all in my old age, but I don't want that to happen to me. It sends the proper message to the public that Law Enforcement does not discriminate, young, old, black, white rich or poor, if you don't listen and follow my instructions you get that crap zapped out of you, its that simple. I've got a great idea here folks, listen to Law Enforcement , geeeesh How about cops don't taser anyone, unless they are protecting themselves or another persons well being? It's very simple, no threat /no taser. Instead of looking for reasons to use the taser, it might better serve the community to look for reasons not to use it. I would like to have seen the cop try to diffuse the situation verbally first. He did the opposite. I'd like to see him physically walk her to the safe side of the vehicle and handcuff her. The same procedure we all have seen hundreds of times. Nobody wants to see the elderly get away with anything. The punishment is getting arrested. The taser is a tool, not a form of punishment. The situation should dictate. Would you be in favor of tasing a pregnant women? Equal rights! A pregnant women could be dangerous. What about a 110 pound 16 year old who gets mouthy because he's nervous? What about a disabled person who shoves a cop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Add it up for us champ. I guess it does come to this. You are saying he was right to taser a 72 year old woman he was literally twice as big as. I say it wasn't. If he cannot gently subdue a 72 year old woman then he has no business on the force. The obvious best tactic was to let the old lady sign the ticket when she finally agreed to, not take it to the max by the book. "She refused to sign the ticket, granny is going down!" Pay attention to what I'm saying, having an opinion one way or the other about what he did is one thing. But saying that it was a clear choice is downright ignorant given the difference of opinion shown here. It's OBVIOUS that it wasn't a clear cut choice. Champ. Maybe next time I should stick with: Sine that seems to be more your cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Pay attention to what I'm saying, having an opinion one way or the other about what he did is one thing. But saying that it was a clear choice is downright ignorant given the difference of opinion shown here. It's OBVIOUS that it wasn't a clear cut choice. Champ. Maybe next time I should stick with: Sine that seems to be more your cup of tea. I clarified for you that it was an opinion. Your just being a tool and grasping at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 How about cops don't taser anyone, unless they are protecting themselves or another persons well being? It's very simple, no threat /no taser. Instead of looking for reasons to use the taser, it might better serve the community to look for reasons not to use it. I would like to have seen the cop try to diffuse the situation verbally first. He did the opposite. I'd like to see him physically walk her to the safe side of the vehicle and handcuff her. The same procedure we all have seen hundreds of times. Nobody wants to see the elderly get away with anything. The punishment is getting arrested. The taser is a tool, not a form of punishment. The situation should dictate. Would you be in favor of tasing a pregnant women? Equal rights! A pregnant women could be dangerous. What about a 110 pound 16 year old who gets mouthy because he's nervous? What about a disabled person who shoves a cop? Take a look at some of the statistics of officers who die in the line of duty. How about making a Police officers job safer so he can go home to his wife and kids at night. How about taking away all confrontation were a Police Officer could get stabbed, injured or killed. How about pregnant woman acting more responsible because they are carrying a baby, you seem to forget these are people who are breaking the Law and then not following orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Take a look at some of the statistics of officers who die in the line of duty. How about making a Police officers job safer so he can go home to his wife and kids at night. How about taking away all confrontation were a Police Officer could get stabbed, injured or killed. How about pregnant woman acting more responsible because they are carrying a baby, you seem to forget these are people who are breaking the Law and then not following orders. Breaking the law shouldn't be the criteria for tasing. A real threat to the officer or public, should be the criteria for zapping someone. If you want to go into every what if scenario and use it as the standard, then cops should taser every person they pull over. I'm all for cops going home safe. My father was a cop for 35 years. I believe that most cops would have handeled this situation differently. What are we talking about? An ignorant loud mouth 72 year old woman who got pulled over for speeding. If you can't diffuse the situation, arrest her and move on. It's just my opinion, that the cop went overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Breaking the law shouldn't be the criteria for tasing. A real threat to the officer or public, should be the criteria for zapping someone. If you want to go into every what if scenario and use it as the standard, then cops should taser every person they pull over. I'm all for cops going home safe. My father was a cop for 35 years. I believe that most cops would have handeled this situation differently. What are we talking about? An ignorant loud mouth 72 year old woman who got pulled over for speeding. If you can't diffuse the situation, arrest her and move on. It's just my opinion, that the cop went overboard. Push have you asked your Dad what his perspective is on this if you don't mind my asking? In all fairness I would be lying if I said the Police officer didn't escalate the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Push have you asked your Dad what his perspective is on this if you don't mind my asking? In all fairness I would be lying if I said the Police officer didn't escalate the situation. No I haven't but I am curious what his opinion would be. He usually sides with the police officer but you can tell when he doesn't like something. I tend to side with the police more often than not myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 No I haven't but I am curious what his opinion would be. He usually side with the police officer but you can tell when he doesn't like something. I tend to side with the police more often than not myself. If you get a chance to ask him I would be real interested to hear what he has to say and tell him one of your buddies said thanks for 35 years of brave Service for our Country. I'll bet he's a nice, down to earth fella just like you are Push Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Pay attention to what I'm saying, having an opinion one way or the other about what he did is one thing. But saying that it was a clear choice is downright ignorant given the difference of opinion shown here. It's OBVIOUS that it wasn't a clear cut choice. Champ. Maybe next time I should stick with: Sine that seems to be more your cup of tea. I think the fact that so many people disagree with you makes that easily NOT the case. Right or wrong, there is obviously a debate going on here, with you in the minority. How that equates to this being an open and shut decision, I don't know. Huge difference in those two statements. I laugh when people get silly and way overboard. "The terrorist granny almost shoved me into traffic. Sob Sob." Yeah. that cop is useful... I should note that I am being intentionally overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 If you get a chance to ask him I would be real interested to hear what he has to say and tell him one of your buddies said thanks for his brave Service to our Country. I'll bet he's a nice, down to earth fella just like you are Push Thanks dog. I'll be sure to tell him about your appreciation and I'll get back to you after I talk to him about it. Even if he completely disagrees with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Thanks dog. I'll be sure to tell him about your appreciation and I'll get back to you after I talk to him about it. Even if he completely disagrees with me. Dads do that sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 How about cops don't taser anyone, unless they are protecting themselves or another persons well being? It's very simple, no threat /no taser. Instead of looking for reasons to use the taser, it might better serve the community to look for reasons not to use it. He warned her 5 times that he would use it. She had 5 opportunities to avoid it but she chose the opposite. I would like to have seen the cop try to diffuse the situation verbally first. He did the opposite. He thought it was a routine stop and radioed it in as such. He was willing to let her go if she just signed the ticket. She did the opposite and escalated the situation by telling him to arrest her. I'd like to see him physically walk her to the safe side of the vehicle and handcuff her. The same procedure we all have seen hundreds of times. He tried that. She resisted. What video are you watching? The first one in this thread is highly edited and extremely biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Huge difference in those two statements. I laugh when people get silly and way overboard. "The terrorist granny almost shoved me into traffic. Sob Sob." Yeah. that cop is useful... I should note that I am being intentionally overboard. I don't think so. It's mainly only been you and him that have said the cop was obviously wrong. Everyone else has sided with the cop or said it could go either way or there wasn't enough info to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I don't think so. It's mainly only been you and him that have said the cop was obviously wrong. Everyone else has sided with the cop or said it could go either way or there wasn't enough info to tell. I don't know what to tell you Faustas. If your not crazy about hearing different opinions, maybe message boards aren't for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I don't know what to tell you Faustas. If your not crazy about hearing different opinions, maybe message boards aren't for you. How ironic, considering how rooted you are in YOUR opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I don't know what to tell you Faustas. If your not crazy about hearing different opinions, maybe message boards aren't for you. Are you kidding me? Have you read anything I've said? It's like talking to a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 How ironic, considering how rooted you are in YOUR opinion. and you don't believe in your opinion? I don't begrudge you your own thoughts, so deal with mine and others accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Are you kidding me? Have you read anything I've said? It's like talking to a wall. You haven't said anything. Big deal a few posters have disagreed with me. Review the thread again and you will find some that agree. Eitherway, what is your point? This issue has different sides to it. Set up a poll if your so concerned with the percentages. You got locked into some stupid putdown and aren't making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 How about cops don't taser anyone, unless they are protecting themselves or another persons well being? It's very simple, no threat /no taser. Here's a little law enforcement lesson for you, PTP. LEOs follow what is called a "use of force matrix". This determines at which level of resistance certain forms of control can be used. What the old lady did here is called "active physical resistance". She used muscle groups to resist the officer (pushing him away, walking away, etc). Even under the most liberal agency policies, the taser is a warranted response to this type of resistance. Some agencies allow it to be used at the "passive physical resistance" level. Next, refusing to sign a citation IS A CRIME in most states, including Texas. By her refusing to sign the ticket, even after he told her that it wasn't an admission of guilt, she committed a crime. Now, he has informed her that she is under arrest. Regardless of if she is in handcuffs at this point, she is under arrest. Her sudden change of heart ("give me the bleeping ticket. I'll sign it") doesn't matter. What happens when a bank robber walks into a bank and sticks a gun in someone's face while demanding money. The cops show up and bust the guy. He says "oh, I didn't mean it". Does he get let go? She made the choice, he arrested her, and now its too late to go back. As has been pointed out numerous times, the taser is the best option in this case. Physical techniques that could have been employed by the officer would have undoubtedly resulted in injury to the woman. As LEOs, we don't train to not hurt someone else. We train to keep ourselves from getting hurt. Regardless of what you think, PTP, putting a non-compliant individual in cuffs (old, young, short, fat, etc) is much tougher than you think. She would have ended up proned on the ground with her face in the dirt, no doubt. This is the best way to make sure that he wasn't doing the Texas two-step with her on the side of a busy highway. Lastly, I am glad that you don't make my agency's policy. I could not do my job if I had to be in imminent physical danger before I could employ a non-lethal tool such as the taser. BTW - When someone presents a weapon, they are probably going to end up shot by the po-po. I know this is appalling to those of you who are the "why don't you talk to them first" type... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Take a look at some of the statistics of officers who die in the line of duty. How about making a Police officers job safer so he can go home to his wife and kids at night. How about taking away all confrontation were a Police Officer could get stabbed, injured or killed. How about pregnant woman acting more responsible because they are carrying a baby, you seem to forget these are people who are breaking the Law and then not following orders. Never going to happen... It is part of the job... Called "selfless service." It is also the officers responsibility to make sure the family is in-line with that also, or don't have a family. I am not saying that they can't make the job safer with aspects of better SOP's or PPE... The problem is, it is never going to be perfect... That is where selfless service comes into play. If that can't be handled, then the door swings both ways... We can DO a lot better with who is hired as law enforcement officers, I don't see an sortage of people willing to try. And if selfless service by the officer AND THEIR FAMILY is too much to ask, then get into another line of work... Like say a lock and dam operator... I am sick and tired of all this crying about the "widows and orphans." I try to be as polite as possible, but this crap really comes to a head for me when I get the police "phone bank" calling me for extra dough outside of what is given by my tax dollars. Sorry, but no thanks has always been the reply. They can raise my taxes if they want to. Nothing wrong with brotherhood, I just think that today, the idea of service to others gets lost (too much emphasis of brotherhood)... And you can totally forget about cheerfulness among many people in their respective professions. Nobody said that being a police officer shouldn't be a professional ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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