Microsoft on Obama's new tax plan

[Fingon]

...last week, Microsoft Chief Executive Officer Steve Ballmer came to Washington to announce what Microsoft would do if Obama’s multinational tax policy is enacted.

 

“It makes U.S. jobs more expensive,” Ballmer said, “We’re better off taking lots of people and moving them out of the U.S.” If Microsoft, perhaps our most competitive company, has to abandon the U.S. in order to continue to thrive, who exactly is going to stay?

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=was...id=aaaBdVMkjPnU

 

The rest of the article is pretty interesting, but this little nugget really shows how much of a disaster Obama's tax plan will be.

[Magox]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=was...id=aaaBdVMkjPnU

 

The rest of the article is pretty interesting, but this little nugget really shows how much of a disaster Obama's tax plan will be.

The "unintendended consequences" of policy decisions from this administration are going to be disastrous if they stay the course.

 

"MULTINATIONALTAXATION" that's what they call it, they figure if you tax these corporations for shipping jobs overseas, they will encourage US corporations to keep jobs at home. Sounds nice, just like all their plans, but what this administration fails to see are the "unintended consequences" of their policy errors.

 

We all ready have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and now you are going to tax them further? Ya, makes sense

 

You can't dictate how a business should conduct their business, if you mettle and interfere too much then you will cause these corporations to alter their plans.

 

This is significant, you are talking about Steve Balmer, head of Microsoft, one of the largest corporations in the world, that's telling the government flat out, that if you impose this tax on us, we will seriously consider leaving the US.

 

That would be disastrous, because we would lose a huge source of tax revenues, more jobs and could possibly set a precedence for other companies to follow suit.

 

I've said it before, the Obama administration is way in over their head. They have good intentions, but let's face it, they are a bunch of green wide eyed rookies playing in the majors. The Bond markets are all ready B word slapping them around, who's next? The major corporations.

 

The Obama administration is going to have to rethink a lot of things here very shortly or things are going to really get out of control.

[StupidNation]

I hope he stays the course. We don't want him to fail, we heard so much about that after Limbaugh's comments. I want to see what success is to him and the lefties.

[Max Fischer]

Of course, one thing the Right always ignores is the difference between the statutory and effective corporate tax rates.

 

What if we lower the tax rate to, say, 27%, but eliminate the boatloads of exemptions, incentives and loopholes? I'd venture that corporate America would have a heart attack since their effective tax rate is much, much lower.

[Fingon]

Of course, one thing the Right always ignores is the difference between the statutory and effective corporate tax rates.

 

What if we lower the tax rate to, say, 27%, but eliminate the boatloads of exemptions, incentives and loopholes? I'd venture that corporate America would have a heart attack since their effective tax rate is much, much lower.

So you aren't refuting that jobs will move out of the US?

[finknottle]

Of course, one thing the Right always ignores is the difference between the statutory and effective corporate tax rates.

 

What if we lower the tax rate to, say, 27%, but eliminate the boatloads of exemptions, incentives and loopholes? I'd venture that corporate America would have a heart attack since their effective tax rate is much, much lower.

 

Perhaps because at 27% it would still be higher than the rates in most European countries, not even counting their extensive exemptions, incentives, and loopholes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

[Max Fischer]

Perhaps because at 27% it would still be higher than the rates in most european countruies, not even counting their existing exemptions, incentives, and loopholes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

 

No, it's because the effective tax rate is much lower than 27%, with many corporations paying practically zero. Fact is, our tax code is a joke, I'm all for dropping it to 22% or so but with no exemptions, incentives, loopholes, etc.

[Fingon]

No, it's because the effective tax rate is much lower than 27%, with many corporations paying practically zero. Fact is, our tax code is a joke, I'm all for dropping it to 22% or so but with no exemptions, incentives, loopholes, etc.

What corporations pay near 0%?

[DC Tom]

What corporations pay near 0%?

 

GM?

[finknottle]

No, it's because the effective tax rate is much lower than 27%, with many corporations paying practically zero. Fact is, our tax code is a joke, I'm all for dropping it to 22% or so but with no exemptions, incentives, loopholes, etc.

 

And that is precisely the point - they need an effective rate of about 15% (that's just my guestimate) to compete with that of the European countries, which are probably about 10%.

 

So - you have a choice. Keep the current high rates and the current exemptions, or make it an above-board 15%. Nobody is surprised that they would have a heart attack at 27% with no exemptions, because everybody knows that the effective rate is lower than that. Without that effective rate, the companies will not be able to compete.

[OCinBuffalo]

Of course, one thing the Right always ignores is the difference between the statutory and effective corporate tax rates.

 

What if we lower the tax rate to, say, 27%, but eliminate the boatloads of exemptions, incentives and loopholes? I'd venture that corporate America would have a heart attack since their effective tax rate is much, much lower.

It's not just "the right" that ignores it...or want to maintain that illusion. Labor unions, community organizers, accounting firms, tax lawyers, lawyers in general, Holy God, large corporations...

 

It's not about one political party. The tax code, and changing the tax code, is how politicians raise money for their campaigns. This is why you will see so many people on both sides against a flat tax, corporate or personal. Not to mention that it would put legions of accountants out of work, and they have a ton of money and their lobbyists too.

So you aren't refuting that jobs will move out of the US?

Look I have been dealing with this issue for a long time, and it's not as clear cut, cause and effect as you may think.

 

This is usually as much about "whipping the slaves" as it is about the taxes you have to pay on them. For a very, very long time software companies have trying to find every way possible to not be dependent on programmers.

 

I know. It doesn't make sense.

 

But try telling that to sales and marketing people who are now managers, who have never written a line of code in their life. "Idiot with idiot plan" doesn't even come close: look at Vista. Yeah India did swell on that one What happened to Microsoft Home Server? Since those foreign programmer "masterpieces", why is it that you see Americans working on Natal exclusively? How else do you define "in-house" there Microsoft?

 

People don't like programmers because they know things most people won't ever know, and they tend to be a lot smarter than most people. People especially don't like American programmers because we aren't "just happy to be here on a work visa". We are fairly likely to tell you you are an idiot, quit and get a 10k raise someplace else. Being dependent on someone who is smarter than you, knows more about the material than you do, and isn't going to tolerate any BS from you is an unsettling feeling for the weak project managers out there. For every strong one, you will find 7 weak ones, and that's the root cause of all these problems.

 

Every time the government does something stupid, or suggests that it might, software companies send some programming jobs overseas, or threaten that they might. This keeps the slaves they are dependent on somewhat in line for fear of losing their jobs with no backup plan. It represents the only real power they have over programmers.

 

So just like with the tax rate, there's a lot more to this than bumper sticker logic.

[Fingon]

It's not just "the right" that ignores it...or want to maintain that illusion. Labor unions, community organizers, accounting firms, tax lawyers, lawyers in general, Holy God, large corporations...

 

It's not about one political party. The tax code, and changing the tax code, is how politicians raise money for their campaigns. This is why you will see so many people on both sides against a flat tax, corporate or personal. Not to mention that it would put legions of accountants out of work, and they have a ton of money and their lobbyists too.

 

Look I have been dealing with this issue for a long time, and it's not as clear cut, cause and effect as you may think.

 

This is usually as much about "whipping the slaves" as it is about the taxes you have to pay on them. For a very, very long time software companies have trying to find every way possible to not be dependent on programmers.

 

I know. It doesn't make sense.

 

But try telling that to sales and marketing people who are now managers, who have never written a line of code in their life. "Idiot with idiot plan" doesn't even come close: look at Vista. Yeah India did swell on that one What happened to Microsoft Home Server? Since those foreign programmer "masterpieces", why is it that you see Americans working on Natal exclusively? How else do you define "in-house" there Microsoft?

 

People don't like programmers because they know things most people won't ever know, and they tend to be a lot smarter most people. People especially don't like American programmers because we aren't "just happy to be here on a work visa". We are fairly likely to tell you you are an idiot, quit and get a 10k raise someplace else. Being dependent on someone who is smarter than you, knows more about the material than you do, and isn't going to tolerate any BS from you is an unsettling feeling for the weak project managers out there. For every strong one, you will find 7 weak ones, and that's the root cause of all these problems.

 

Every time the government does something stupid, or suggests that it might, software companies send some programming jobs overseas, or threaten that they might. This keeps the slaves they are dependent on somewhat in line for fear of losing their jobs with no backup plan. It represents the only real power they have over programmers.

 

So just like with the tax rate, there's a lot more to this than bumper sticker logic.

Yes, because decreasing the cost to benefit ratio of US employees is exclusive to software companies.

[Dante]

Should be a flat tax of 10% across the board for everyone. NO exemptions. But of course the government doesn't want that. Would render the huge IRS irrelevant. Can't have that. Less money for lawyers and accountants. A bunch of government workers would actually have to go out and do something useful.

Also, the math is to simple. Controlling government likes to keep everything kinda foggy and vague to keep its people unsure.

Tax finance is so complex that you need us to keep track of it for you.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Perhaps because at 27% it would still be higher than the rates in most European countries, not even counting their extensive exemptions, incentives, and loopholes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

 

62% income taxes in Denmark? That's just insane. You spend 62% of your time working just to pay your taxes there.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=was...id=aaaBdVMkjPnU

 

The rest of the article is pretty interesting, but this little nugget really shows how much of a disaster Obama's tax plan will be.

 

My biggest point I have is this....

 

When I call a help desk I want to speak to a person that understands English and speaks it CLEARLY.

 

I do not want to spend 15 minutes repeating the problem to them.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

My biggest point I have is this....

 

When I call a help desk I want to speak to a person that understands English and speaks it CLEARLY.

 

I do not want to spend 15 minutes repeating the problem to them.

 

Viva la racist anti-foreign help desk bigotry...

[/dev/null]

I do not want to spend 15 minutes repeating the problem to them.

 

You end up having to do that even if you connect to somebody in the US, Canada, UK, or Austrailia

[pBills]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=was...id=aaaBdVMkjPnU

 

The rest of the article is pretty interesting, but this little nugget really shows how much of a disaster Obama's tax plan will be.

 

 

Microsoft ought to work on Vista instead.

[/dev/null]

Microsoft ought to work on Vista instead.

 

Vista's a lost cause. MS is focusing on Windows 7

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Vista's a lost cause. MS is focusing on Windows 7

 

With the exception of the first 6 months it was out, I have not had any problems with my Vista Home Premium.

 

With 1 desktop and two laptops in the last year we've had one problem where my son did somethign and corrupted a video file.

 

After 2 hours on the phone with Ahmit I downloaded the file I needed from the website. POOF. all fixed.