Another Obama 180 deg. turnaround

[IDBillzFan]

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but I am enraged by the approach: he commits our money, and then instructs Congress to pass a plan by a set date this summer. No details, no going out on a limb by offering up a draft plan - nice leadership. If as expected it passes, he basks in the adulation of being the President that brought universal health care. If it fails, you can be sure he will act the aggrieved party and blame Congress.

 

Writing something that will be passed is therefore the responsibility of Congress.. And they are doing it the only way they think they can succeed: in secret, more or less. Release it right before the deadline, no time for anyone to read it or for opposition to develop, and let the Presidents deadline pressure the back benchers into signing on. What's really going to be in this bill? Good luck finding out, until it is released for a vote.

In all fairness, I know Obama has been bringing in health care officials to glean their input on what would constitute a successful health care program. If we HAVE to have nationalized health care, then that kind of approach is important. My problem is, has been, and will remain that Obama pulled this $634 BILLION downpayment number out of his ass. That, to me, is reckless. How do you saddle the American taxpayer with a self-admitted unsustainable debt when you don't even know what you're going to do with that money? It's ludicrous.

 

Could you imagine going to your boss and saying you want to upgrade the company's network, and while you really have no idea how you're going to do it or what you'll need to do it, you need a few million bucks to get started? Who the !@#$ does that kind of stupid schiit?

 

Craft some plans. Cost them out. THEN present the numbers. Anything else is reckless and irresponsible.

 

Honestly, I have NO idea how he gets a pass on this from everyone. It's absolutely stunning to me.

[Magox]

In all fairness, I know Obama has been bringing in health care officials to glean their input on what would constitute a successful health care program. If we HAVE to have nationalized health care, then that kind of approach is important. My problem is, has been, and will remain that Obama pulled this $634 BILLION downpayment number out of his ass. That, to me, is reckless. How do you saddle the American taxpayer with a self-admitted unsustainable debt when you don't even know what you're going to do with that money? It's ludicrous.

 

Could you imagine going to your boss and saying you want to upgrade the company's network, and while you really have no idea how you're going to do it or what you'll need to do it, you need a few million bucks to get started? Who the !@#$ does that kind of stupid schiit?

 

Craft some plans. Cost them out. THEN present the numbers. Anything else is reckless and irresponsible.

 

Honestly, I have NO idea how he gets a pass on this from everyone. It's absolutely stunning to me.

That is a very good point. I find that odd as well that he stated a specific $634 BILLION downpayment number, and is telling congress to have a plan ready for him to approve soon. Not only is the specific number odd, but the distinct possibility that he could support taxing some employee health benefits, where in his campaign trail, that was one of the main things he promised by stating it would be “the largest middle-class tax increase in history.”

 

Now that he knows that he very well may have overpromised, and there is a real possibility that we won't be able to pay for this, he smoothly and more importantly politically, his administration aides are whispering that he won't propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, but he won't oppose it if Congress approves it.

 

If that isn't some major sidestepping then I don't know what is.

 

This is a perfect example of him writing checks that his ass can't cash. The only problem is that it is the taxpayers and China's checks and our ass.

 

No wonder the Chinese students, the future of that country laugh at us when we say we are fiscally responsable.

[Kelly the Dog]

In all fairness, I know Obama has been bringing in health care officials to glean their input on what would constitute a successful health care program. If we HAVE to have nationalized health care, then that kind of approach is important. My problem is, has been, and will remain that Obama pulled this $634 BILLION downpayment number out of his ass. That, to me, is reckless. How do you saddle the American taxpayer with a self-admitted unsustainable debt when you don't even know what you're going to do with that money? It's ludicrous.

 

Could you imagine going to your boss and saying you want to upgrade the company's network, and while you really have no idea how you're going to do it or what you'll need to do it, you need a few million bucks to get started? Who the !@#$ does that kind of stupid schiit?

 

Craft some plans. Cost them out. THEN present the numbers. Anything else is reckless and irresponsible.

 

Honestly, I have NO idea how he gets a pass on this from everyone. It's absolutely stunning to me.

I'm sure the administration just made it up out of nowhere. But don't worry yourself silly, Mock, that's not at all what he plans to spend on health care, believe me. That's just "the down payment."

[Magox]

I'm sure the administration just made it up out of nowhere. But don't worry yourself silly, Mock, that's not at all what he plans to spend on health care, believe me. That's just "the down payment."

The problem with your argument through sarcasm regarding this topic is that they are not involved in the crafting of the legislation of this bill.

[finknottle]

In all fairness, I know Obama has been bringing in health care officials to glean their input on what would constitute a successful health care program. If we HAVE to have nationalized health care, then that kind of approach is important. My problem is, has been, and will remain that Obama pulled this $634 BILLION downpayment number out of his ass. That, to me, is reckless. How do you saddle the American taxpayer with a self-admitted unsustainable debt when you don't even know what you're going to do with that money? It's ludicrous.

 

Could you imagine going to your boss and saying you want to upgrade the company's network, and while you really have no idea how you're going to do it or what you'll need to do it, you need a few million bucks to get started? Who the !@#$ does that kind of stupid schiit?

 

Craft some plans. Cost them out. THEN present the numbers. Anything else is reckless and irresponsible.

 

Honestly, I have NO idea how he gets a pass on this from everyone. It's absolutely stunning to me.

 

I'm not convinced he is actually pushing Congress on specifics. He certainly is bringing people in, as is Congress, but nothing is said about the content of the talks beyond the recent press announcement about cutting 2 trillion... that blew up in their face, and I suspect it is now a lesson learned.

 

So all we know is that there are a lot of closed door meetings on capital hill, and a few with the White House, and that the congressional rank and file feels shut out of what's going on. Maybe it's Obama making the decisions, but maybe its the Committee Chairs - primarily Rangel, Dodd, Kennedy, Waxman, and Baucus. They are the ones tasked with it. Congress has been pretty consistent in not giving a hint that there are White House marching orders other than the date it must be finished by. My guess is that there is no White House plan other than to apply pressure to get something passed, and that the chairs are on their own to come up with an actual plan.

[Kelly the Dog]

The problem with your argument through sarcasm regarding this topic is that they are not involved in the crafting of the legislation of this bill.

I understand your argument, and I think he made a big mistake the first time by letting congress do the stimulus plan first.

 

There is an obvious huge trade off though, and I assume that the administration decided that it would be to their advantage to let the congress do their job and be the crafters of the bills, as opposed to him and the White House jamming things down everyone's throats. He needs the congress behind him to get what he wants done. Not to mention that a lot of these congressmen and senators have been working on these health care plans for decades. The administration has not.

 

In health care, I think he should probably let the congress do it first, under some guidelines of what he wants and what he doesn't want. Otherwise he risks not being able to get the votes he needs. For the stimulus plan, as I said before, I think it was a mistake to let Pelosi have too much power and say, which led to a little too much pork and some bad PR.

[IDBillzFan]

I'm sure the administration just made it up out of nowhere. But don't worry yourself silly, Mock, that's not at all what he plans to spend on health care, believe me. That's just "the down payment."

It's a down payment. Are you disputing that? And are you suggesting there is a specific line-itemed budget to account for the $634 BILLION taxpayer dollars? Have you seen it? Can you share it with us? I mean, I've scoured the transparent White House website and come up with nothing except the information below. So you must know something I don't know.

 

It's a simple question. HOW ARE THEY SPENDING THE $634 BILLION IN TAXPAYER MONEY?????

 

Here's what I found on the budget papers from the White House website:

 

Makes a down Payment on health Care Reform. The Budget establishes a reserve fund of more than $630 billion over 10 years to finance fundamental reform of our health care system The Budget establishes a reserve fund of more than $630 billion over 10 years to finance fundamental reform of our health care systemthat will bring down costs and expand coverage. The reserve is funded half by new revenue and half by savings proposals that promote efficiency and accountability, align incentives toward quality, and encourage shared responsibility. In addition, the Budget calls for an effort beyond this down payment, to put the Nation on a path to health insurance coverage for all Americans. However, additional funding will be needed. This effort must be open, and must consider all kinds of approaches as part of this process. Some major strides have already been made in the American recovery and reinvestment Act of 2009, including $19 billion for health information technology, $1 billion for comparative effectiveness research, and subsidies for the newly unemployed to maintain their health insurance. These initiatives put the Nation on the path toward fundamental health reform.

 

Sounds like they're making it up to me. But not to you. Big surprise. I guess when that much money is referred to as "a reserve," it just makes good fiscal sense to you.

[Kelly the Dog]

It's a down payment. Are you disputing that? And are you suggesting there is a specific line-itemed budget to account for the $634 BILLION taxpayer dollars? Have you seen it? Can you share it with us? I mean, I've scoured the transparent White House website and come up with nothing except the information below. So you must know something I don't know.

 

It's a simple question. HOW ARE THEY SPENDING THE $634 BILLION IN TAXPAYER MONEY?????

 

Here's what I found on the budget papers from the White House website:

 

 

 

Sounds like they're making it up to me. But not to you. Big surprise. I guess when that much money is referred to as "a reserve," it just makes good fiscal sense to you.

No, I mean and said, it's only a down payment. There are hundreds of billions more to come they will ask for. And they will probably just throw darts against the wall for the number.

 

Seriously, however, I don't know how they got to that number but I will bet you 634 billion they didnt just make it up. I assume he had specialists working on how much what he wants would approximately cost over ten years, how much they could approximately raise by their plans to tax and cut, and then measured that number against how much they thought was the most they could ask for out of the 3+ trillion budget they were going to propose, knowing that over 10 years health care was going to be a trillion dollars or two trillion or whatever. Remember, this is over 10 years.

 

Those approximate numbers were put into a bill that is supposed to be a blueprint for the following 10 years which very likely never comes close to that figure, no matter what year or party or administration or budget office is doing it.

 

They knew it was going to be a huge number and more than they allotted for, hence the fund put aside as "a down payment". They also had to get a budget out and wanted to get health care done in his first year. It would have wasted a lot of time to wait for a specific plan and projected costs when it didnt really matter whether they set aside 500 bil or 600 bil or 700 bil. That is just conjecture.

[IDBillzFan]

Seriously, however, I don't know how they got to that number but I will bet you 634 million they didnt just make it up. I assume he had specialists working on how much what he wants would approximately cost over ten years, how much they could approximately raise by their plans to tax and cut, and then measured that number against how much they thought was the most they could ask for out of the 3+ trillion budget they were going to propose, knowing that over 10 years health care was going to be a trillion dollars or two trillion or whatever. Remember, this is over 10 years.

I can't help but wonder if, maybe, oh, let's say ONE BILLION dollars would fund a decent health care feasibility study of sorts before we commit the other $633 BILLION in taxpayer money as downpayment to a plan that has no plan?

 

Just a thought. I mean, when the president himself says the debt he is amassing is unsustainable, I'm thinking, maybe, y'know, put on the breaks a bit, reel in $633 BILLION in taxpayer money, and let's put a real plan in place. Surely you could learn a lot and develop a hell of a plan for a billion, no? Okay...TWO BILLION. You could get a helluva study done for that amount, right? No? You don't think so?

 

I know I'm just some political noob, but why doesn't this sound like a good idea at this time?

[Nanker]

Here's what it could mean to working people - paying taxes on an additional $9,894.89. Hope it doesn't put you into a higher tax bracket. Even in the 10% tax bracket - for couples earning less than $16,700 a year that's nearly an additional $1,000 in taxes they'll owe and no real income to offset the increased tax liability. Find your rates here and start saving your shekels. Change you can count on.

[Kelly the Dog]

I can't help but wonder if, maybe, oh, let's say ONE BILLION dollars would fund a decent health care feasibility study of sorts before we commit the other $633 BILLION in taxpayer money as downpayment to a plan that has no plan?

 

Just a thought. I mean, when the president himself says the debt he is amassing is unsustainable, I'm thinking, maybe, y'know, put on the breaks a bit, reel in $633 BILLION in taxpayer money, and let's put a real plan in place. Surely you could learn a lot and develop a hell of a plan for a billion, no? Okay...TWO BILLION. You could get a helluva study done for that amount, right? No? You don't think so?

 

I know I'm just some political noob, but why doesn't this sound like a good idea at this time?

You think a study is going to give you an accurate idea of how much something is going to cost ten years from now? Ten years ago the Bills were in the playoffs, we were two years before 9/11, and Rickey Martin was singing, Livin' La Vida Loca.

 

Those ten year projections IMO are nonsense. No one can predict what things are going to cost or what technologies are going to exist or who is going to be in power 10 months from now.

[IDBillzFan]

You think a study is going to give you an accurate idea of how much something is going to cost ten years from now? Ten years ago the Bills were in the playoffs, we were two years before 9/11, and Rickey Martin was singing, Livin' La Vida Loca.

 

Those ten year projections IMO are nonsense. No one can predict what things are going to cost or what technologies are going to exist or who is going to be in power 10 months from now.

No, sir. A two billion dollar study to examine and recommend possible ways to structure a successful health care PLAN cuz, y'know, THERE CURRENTLY IS NO PLAN. I don't know how to say SPEND $634 BILLION ON A PLAN THAT HAS NO PLAN any more simply for you.

 

Let's try this.

 

Question: How much money is being spent as a down payment on nationalized health care?

Answer: $634 BILLION

 

Question: How will this money be spent?

Answer: As a downpayment on the nationalized health care plan.

 

Question: What is that plan?

Answer: We don't have one.

 

Question: So what are you spending the $634 BILLION on?

Answer: A downpayment on a nationalized health care plan.

 

Question: Is there a plan for a nationalized health care plan?

Answer: No.

 

Question: So what are you doing with the money?

Answer: We're using it as downpayment on the nationalized health care plan.

 

Question: The one that has no plan?

Answer: Correct.

 

Question: So you have no idea precisely what you plan to spend this money on?

Answer. No. We know. We're spending it as a downpayment on a nationalized health care plan.

 

The only thing this conversation is missing is electrolytes.

[Kelly the Dog]

BTW, I just saw an interview with Senator Grassley the republican talking about this. The Democrats don't want the provision and want to just vote by themselves on health care in congress without it. Obama, however, wants a bipartisan bill, and the Republicans want the employee tax provision put in there, at some high level (meaning it kicks in at a certain amount you make).

[erynthered]

You think a study is going to give you an accurate idea of how much something is going to cost ten years from now? Ten years ago the Bills were in the playoffs, we were two years before 9/11, and Rickey Martin was singing, Livin' La Vida Loca.

 

Those ten year projections IMO are nonsense. No one can predict what things are going to cost or what technologies are going to exist or who is going to be in power 10 months from now.

 

 

Even if they did, would they know what the !@#$ to do with the results? Honestly? Look at SS? How many studies do they need to find out that SS is !@#$ed? GVT Health care? This whole Adm in your favorite words you dont like, an "empty suit"

 

Good job Gvt.