Another Obama 180 deg. turnaround

[stuckincincy]

Administration open to taxing health benefits

by Jackie Calmes and Robert Pear, New York Times March 15, 2009

 

"WASHINGTON - The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

 

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as “the largest middle-class tax increase in history.” "...

 

And is a sign of true leadership, or ducking for cover...your choce.

 

..."Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.".

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29703278//

 

 

Sorry if this is a previously posted topic...

[Magox]

Administration open to taxing health benefits

by Jackie Calmes and Robert Pear, New York Times March 15, 2009

 

"WASHINGTON - The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

 

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as “the largest middle-class tax increase in history.” "...

 

And is a sign of true leadership, or ducking for cover...your choce.

 

..."Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.".

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29703278//

 

 

Sorry if this is a previously posted topic...

I don't know if this will happen in the next year, but I am certain that this administration will have to raise taxes from many different places to pay down this massive debt, specially since the traditional means of recovering revenues through tax receipts will be much lower than what they would like for it to be.

 

This would be just the beginning.

[IDBillzFan]

I don't know if this will happen in the next year, but I am certain that this administration will have to raise taxes from many different places to pay down this massive debt, specially since the traditional means of recovering revenues through tax receipts will be much lower than what they would like for it to be.

 

This would be just the beginning.

Which is why the VAT has reached the trial balloon stage.

[Kelly the Dog]

Don't know why this needs its own thread, there are over 450 other campaign promises that are 180 degree turnarounds that he hasn't made yet.

[finknottle]

Administration open to taxing health benefits

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as “the largest middle-class tax increase in history.” "...

 

Another sticky situation is his campaign position against mandating that everybody obtain some coverage - he blasted Clinton on the issue and used it to differentiate their plans, saying she would criminalize people without insurance... Congress seems intent on including it.

 

(About the only good thing I see coming out of their deliberations - the requirement for hospitals to pay for the uninsured forces them to recoup their losses by artificially raising the rates on those who do pay. And the spiraling rates cause yet more people to go uninsured...)

[stuckincincy]

Don't know why this needs its own thread, there are over 450 other campaign promises that are 180 degree turnarounds that he hasn't made yet.

 

 

Good try at deflection!

 

I'm disappointed that you haven't taken the time to construct a straw man argument, though.

[Kelly the Dog]

Good try at deflection!

 

I'm disappointed that you haven't taken the time to construct a straw man argument, though.

There is a general rule in the physical world, which is the world we live in. If you're walking one way, in order for you to go back the other way, you have to turn. You can't just say, "I'm open to turning a few steps ahead."

 

If he does it, it's a legitimate complaint of a turnaround. If you want to discuss the implications of a possible turnaround, that's a good topic, too, and complain away. But to say, "Another Obama 180 deg. turnaround" is foolish. He's open to bombing Canada, too.

[GG]

Don't know why this needs its own thread, there are over 450 other campaign promises that are 180 degree turnarounds that he hasn't made yet.

 

You mean he didn't ridicule taxing health benefits during his campaign?

[stuckincincy]

There is a general rule in the physical world, which is the world we live in. If you're walking one way, in order for you to go back the other way, you have to turn. You can't just say, "I'm open to turning a few steps ahead."

 

If he does it, it's a legitimate complaint of a turnaround. If you want to discuss the implications of a possible turnaround, that's a good topic, too, and complain away. But to say, "Another Obama 180 deg. turnaround" is foolish. He's open to bombing Canada, too.

 

 

Your defense of Your Messiah is starting to bottom out...

[Kelly the Dog]

You mean he didn't ridicule taxing health benefits during his campaign?

Yes, he did, and as I said above it's a totally legitimate topic to discuss and criticize him for. What he didn't do is add it into a plan that hasn't been made yet. He said he's open to it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Your defense of Your Messiah is starting to bottom out...

 

Actually, I'm defending the English language. I know it doesn't mean much to a lot of people.

 

Which part do you want me to help you with, the part you quoted me where I totally agreed with you that it's a good topic to discuss and criticize him for?

[IDBillzFan]

Yes, he did, and as I said above it's a totally legitimate topic to discuss and criticize him for. What he didn't do is add it into a plan that hasn't been made yet. He said he's open to it.

He's committed a $634 BILLION downpayment for "a plan that hasn't been made yet." If you think he has never planned to tax the schiiit out of everyone to pay for the rest of the plan that has no plan yet, then I'll gladly pay for your next bag if you'll let me smoke some of it with you.

 

P.S. If he's open to bombing Canada, I may just start cozying up to this guy.

[Kelly the Dog]

He's committed a $634 BILLION downpayment for "a plan that hasn't been made yet." If you think he has never planned to tax the schiiit out of everyone to pay for the rest of the plan that has no plan yet, then I'll gladly pay for your next bag if you'll let me smoke some of it with you.

 

P.S. If he's open to bombing Canada, I may just start cozying up to this guy.

My bad. He should be lambasted for everything he does and doesn't do, and for every option the congress leaves on the table before the congress finalizes the plan let alone he signs it. That's really the only reasonable way to look at him.

[IDBillzFan]

My bad. He should be lambasted for everything he does and doesn't do, and for every option the congress leaves on the table before the congress finalizes the plan let alone he signs it. That's really the only reasonable way to look at him.

No. He should be held accountable for what he says he is going to do and whether he does it or not. Just like every president before him. If he permits the taxing of employee health benefits, he will have broken THE biggest promise of his campaign because that tax will ultimately apply to those people earning less than $200K. You can't just say "Well, he has to keep his options on the table" or "Well, Congress made me do it." It doesn't work that way and you know it.

 

I'll admit this much; for as much as Obama and his press corp enjoys referring to everything he does as "historic," you can bet your ass that taxing people making less than $200K/year for their health benefits would be a broken campaign promise that would, actually, be historic.

[Kelly the Dog]

No. He should be held accountable for what he says he is going to do and whether he does it or not. Just like every president before him. If he permits the taxing of employee health benefits, he will have broken THE biggest promise of his campaign because that tax will ultimately apply to those people earning less than $200K. You can't just say "Well, he has to keep his options on the table" or "Well, Congress made me do it." It doesn't work that way and you know it.

 

I'll admit this much; for as much as Obama and his press corp enjoys referring to everything he does as "historic," you can bet your ass that taxing people making less than $200K/year for their health benefits would be a broken campaign promise that would, actually, be historic.

HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. Maybe you should read the article. His stance is the still the same. He's against it. SOME of the people formulating the plans have included SOME taxation on SOME employees. The Administration said everything is on the table, bring me the plans. Geithner recently said everything is on the table but reiterated that the administration was against the overall taxation that they criticized McCain for.

 

Criticize him all you want now for IF he does it, because it would indeed be a flipflop. He's still against it and is waiting to see what they bring him. If the overall package is to his liking and feasible AND includes that provision, he MAY agree to it, and then jump all over him. He may ask for it to be cut out. It may not be there. It may be for only those making over $250K a year. There isn't any comprehensive plan on the table yet but you're jumping all over him for something he agrees with you on apparently.

 

Do you punish your kid because he said he isn't going to leave any toys out anymore, but then says, while he is playing, that he doesn't really want to leave any out but later on in the afternoon he may be open to leaving some out if his buddy thinks it's a good idea?

[IDBillzFan]

HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. Maybe you should read the article. His stance is the still the same. He's against it. SOME of the people formulating the plans have included SOME taxation on SOME employees. The Administration said everything is on the table, bring me the plans. Geithner recently said everything is on the table but reiterated that the administration was against the overall taxation that they criticized McCain for.

 

Criticize him all you want now for IF he does it, because it would indeed be a flipflop. He's still against it and is waiting to see what they bring him. If the overall package is to his liking and feasible AND includes that provision, he MAY agree to it, and then jump all over him. He may ask for it to be cut out. It may not be there. It may be for only those making over $250K a year. There isn't any comprehensive plan on the table yet but you're jumping all over him for something he agrees with you on apparently.

 

Do you punish your kid because he said he isn't going to leave any toys out anymore, but then says, while he is playing, that he doesn't really want to leave any out but later on in the afternoon he may be open to leaving some out if his buddy thinks it's a good idea?

And I haven't criticized him for the nothing he's done about this. The only thing I've criticized him for as far as health care is concerned is that he has committed $634 BILLION in taxpayer dollars as a downpayment on a plan that has no plan. I would never be so stupid as to criticize him for considering a plan to raise taxes on employee benefits. And frankly, I can't imagine he'd be so stupid as to do it.

[Kelly the Dog]

And I haven't criticized him for the nothing he's done about this. The only thing I've criticized him for as far as health care is concerned is that he has committed $634 BILLION in taxpayer dollars as a downpayment on a plan that has no plan. I would never be so stupid as to criticize him for considering a plan to raise taxes on employee benefits. And frankly, I can't imagine he'd be so stupid as to do it.

Then get the hell out of this thread! That's what this thread is about. Considering a potential and perhaps partial flip-flop!

[finknottle]

And I haven't criticized him for the nothing he's done about this. The only thing I've criticized him for as far as health care is concerned is that he has committed $634 BILLION in taxpayer dollars as a downpayment on a plan that has no plan. I would never be so stupid as to criticize him for considering a plan to raise taxes on employee benefits. And frankly, I can't imagine he'd be so stupid as to do it.

 

Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but I am enraged by the approach: he commits our money, and then instructs Congress to pass a plan by a set date this summer. No details, no going out on a limb by offering up a draft plan - nice leadership. If as expected it passes, he basks in the adulation of being the President that brought universal health care. If it fails, you can be sure he will act the aggrieved party and blame Congress.

 

Writing something that will be passed is therefore the responsibility of Congress.. And they are doing it the only way they think they can succeed: in secret, more or less. Release it right before the deadline, no time for anyone to read it or for opposition to develop, and let the Presidents deadline pressure the back benchers into signing on. What's really going to be in this bill? Good luck finding out, until it is released for a vote.

[Adam]

Administration open to taxing health benefits

by Jackie Calmes and Robert Pear, New York Times March 15, 2009

 

"WASHINGTON - The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

 

The proposal is politically problematic for President Obama, however, since it is similar to one he denounced in the presidential campaign as “the largest middle-class tax increase in history.” "...

 

And is a sign of true leadership, or ducking for cover...your choce.

 

..."Now that Mr. Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so.".

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29703278//

 

 

Sorry if this is a previously posted topic...

And it's Obama's fault? You should add George W. Bush, Clinton, George HW Bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon and several others to that list......add the plebian sheeple too

[blzrul]

The statement made by an aide was that the President said he would discuss it. Period. People discuss things like committing the perfect crime too - doesn't mean any action's taken.

 

Yawn.