Jason Peters Pass-Blocking Skills

[The Senator]

I'm not sure I understand your point...if you're insinuating that I'm one of the shouters, very well then, I've worn worse reputations in my time. I do think Peters is a great player. I think he had a down year (particularly in the 1st half of the season), and you can refer to my post herein that explains my thoughts on that.

 

I think it makes more sense to evaluate a player based on his overall performance over 2-1/2+ years than it does to evaluate him based on 11 of the 700+ plays he took part in last year, which is what the vast majority of the Peters-bashers elect to do.

 

What I do understand, however, is how it was that he went to the pro bowl a 2nd time...the guys that get paid to play, and the guys that get paid to coach the guys that play, picked him, which is what my original response explained.

 

And yes, I'm one of those people that thinks NFL players, coaches, and GMs (this even includes Dick Jauron) know more about the game--and the abilities/aptitudes of those that play it--than the posters on this message board.

No, was not insinuating at all that you're one of "the shouters" - simply replying that it goes both ways as far as any of us couch potatoes being able to truly evaluate Peters immense decline last season. And I'll also reiterate that an opposing coach, WR, RB, QB, D-back, etc., has no clue - when he's voting for a Left Tackle - how well that LT handles his blocking assignments, compared to the guy who actually lines up opposite that LT.

 

Myself, I'll take the word of Ross Tucker, who's actually played the O-line and played alongside FatBoy Peters, over any posters on this message board...

 

"Though I'm quite sure some of my personal opinions regarding players that didn't deserve to get in (I'm talking to you, Jason Peters) and vice versa will come to the forefront, my focus will be on the process itself because more often than not that is where the problems originate."

 

link

[Mickey]

Yeah right....

So what you're saying is O-line coach Jim McNally didn't "make" Jason Peters?

He took an overweight tight end, with limited blocking skills and turned him into a pro bowl left tackle.

McNally was as good as it gets.

Gee, why did our offensive line suck so many of the years that he was here? Peters was tops on everyone's project list as a future LT that year, he could have signed with anyone after the draft, he signed with us because our lack of talent on the roster spelled o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y. And no coach turns a player into a pro bowler all on his own, the player himself must be driven and willing to put in the time and effort to become one of the best. Peters did that and, with McNally's help, it worked. That should have been the end of a great story for the Bills but it wasn't. Instead, the Eagles will be the beneficiary.

 

But I don't expect the bile and bluster hereabouts to ever be objective with regard to Peters. Not yet anyway. There is just too much man-love around here for Brandon to consider that maybe he handled the Peters situation poorly.

[Mr. WEO]

I wouldn't be surprised if Peters could be ten times better if given superior coaching.

Ten times better than what?? Isn't he already one of the "top 5 LT's in the League"?? So he has the chance to become one of the top 0.5?

 

Come on, all you JPeters boys. Help us out here.

[Paup 1995MVP]

There were a myraid of reasons why Elam got the sack on JP. It wasn't Peters' fault.

That is just flat out wrong. When you are the LT and someone is coming from your outside left shoulder and taking a wide rush as Elam did, the LT (who was not blocking anyone on the inside) has to step out and at least knock the little safety off his stride enough to give JP a little time to make a play.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Care to provide any supporting evidence for that statement? Actual quotes from Belichick would be appreciated.

 

Edit: Nice job, Fingon

 

Sure; read "Education of a Coach" by David Halberstam.

 

And I am fully aware of the recent high-draft picks at o-line by the Pats*--which is a recent trend (probably borne of drafting the best available player).

 

If you go back a few years, I believe you'll see that in the Pats* "early" Super Bowl years they had lower-round guys starring on the o-line (Andruzzi, Neal, etc.).

[Ramius]

Maybe the eagles can teach fatty how to block a safety blitz instead of cluelessly looking around and blocking no one, all the while complaining, "it wasn't my responsibility."

[Paup 1995MVP]

Gee, why did our offensive line suck so many of the years that he was here? Peters was tops on everyone's project list as a future LT that year, he could have signed with anyone after the draft, he signed with us because our lack of talent on the roster spelled o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y. And no coach turns a player into a pro bowler all on his own, the player himself must be driven and willing to put in the time and effort to become one of the best. Peters did that and, with McNally's help, it worked. That should have been the end of a great story for the Bills but it wasn't. Instead, the Eagles will be the beneficiary.

 

But I don't expect the bile and bluster hereabouts to ever be objective with regard to Peters. Not yet anyway. There is just too much man-love around here for Brandon to consider that maybe he handled the Peters situation poorly.

Jason Peters is terrible. Do any of you actually watch the O-line play during a game? Why do you all think he is so good? He consistently gets beat around the outside. He does NOT have a quick first step into his drop. It is as simple as that. The proof that he sucks is in the games. Don't listen to what all the "talking heads" say. WATCH THE GAMES!! He played TERRIBLE last year. Langston Walker is much more sound fundamentally. And that will make up for whatever he lacks athletically compared to Peters.

 

Why should Brandon have given in to a guy who skipped out on ALL offseason work, and played with no heart after that? If this were any other team you would be saying that the player was a bum, and the front office should cut him.

[Mickey]

I'm willing to bet that Peters will be a pro bowl player for Philly. Mcnabb will make life easier for him because he has great pocket awareness and great mobility. As for Peters poor play this season, it was pretty obvious he didn't want to be here and he just didn't care.

Missing camp has consequences and at the time, everyone on both sides of the issue seemed to acknowledge that. What I think many failed to grasp however was that those consequences would be far more costly to the team than to Peters. The result for Peters was to get out of bad contract early, no easy feat, and to land a huge contract with a perennial contender. The result for the Bills was Peters' performance last year in the first half of the season and the loss of one of their only pro bowl caliber players. Add in the necessity of juggling a significant portion of the line just to field a line that isn't outright laughable and there is no rational conclusion other than that Peters' holdout cost him virtually nothing and cost the team plenty.

 

The only value a player has to a team is the quality of his play. Anything that detracts from that quality hurts the team. Missing camp can have a negative impact on the quality of a player's performance. Therefore, when a player misses camp, regardless of the reason why, it hurts the team. The only value camp has for a player is that it helps him perform his best which eventually translates in to longevity as a starter and bigger contracts. But for an established player whose abilities are well known and whose position as a starter is assured, camp is not all that valuable. For a guy like Peters, wedded to a contract paying him far less than other players who made the pro bowl in 2007, he had little to lose and everything to gain with a hold out. And in the end, the strategy worked.

 

Those who endlessly point to his performance last year as awful pretty much make the point for me that the holdout cost the team way more than it cost Peters and that the time to resolve the Peters situation was in March of 2007.

 

This is where someone will start whining "...but the fines, the fines!!!". Talk about the swan song of the truly desperate. Given the money he made by gettting out of that contract early and the huge bucks Philly is paying him, I am sure Peters has not lost any sleep over the fines.

 

Face it, Peters came out of this smelling like a rose while we are trying to figure out if a career RT can play LT and if a LT can play RT. Smooth.

[The Senator]

Ten times better than what?? Isn't he already one of the "top 5 LT's in the League"?? So he has the chance to become one of the top 0.5?

No - he will still suck - probably even worse than last season - but this will not stop him from holding out for 'top 0.5' money next Fall.

[Mickey]

Jason Peters is terrible. Do any of you actually watch the O-line play during a game? Why do you all think he is so good? He consistently gets beat around the outside. He does NOT have a quick first step into his drop. It is as simple as that. The proof that he sucks is in the games. Don't listen to what all the "talking heads" say. WATCH THE GAMES!! He played TERRIBLE last year. Langston Walker is much more sound fundamentally. And that will make up for whatever he lacks athletically compared to Peters.

 

Why should Brandon have given in to a guy who skipped out on ALL offseason work, and played with no heart after that? If this were any other team you would be saying that the player was a bum, and the front office should cut him.

I did watch Peters play, for his whole career rather than just the first few games he was back for last year which appears to be the only games you watched. I might find this credible if you could show me all your posts talking about how terrible Peters is before the hold out. No one seemed to think he was undeserving of the pro bowl, or a fat lazy bum until then. I am not sure how he turned from a great player everyone raved about and never complained of into a lousy player even before he missed a single block in 2008.

 

What Brandon did was to stiff Peters when the team fell all over Schobel the year before who had just signed a contract making him the highest paid palyer on the team. The very next year, when they ludicrously overpaid Kelsay, they promptly decided to red-do Schobel's contract giving even more money. The few sacks he has made since the day he signed that second new contract are most expensive in team history, apart from Kelsay's. I challenge you to pick out two palyers on the team more overpaid than those two. Huge, stupefyingly huge, contracts for two players who have been next to useless for two years running is one of the reasons why we haven't been to the playoffs.

 

He could have singed Peters up in March of 2007, avoided the hold out all together and got the same performance out of him that he gave in 2007 which may have made for a much better 2008 than 7-9. We'll never know. Calling a press conference to publicly embarass and call out the player as he did on the opening day of camp was just foolish. I don't think I can come up with a reason why that was thought to be a sound management strategy. Tick off a guy who is already ticked about his contract and the seemingly disparate treatement he was given compared to Schobel? Why? Anger a guy you are trying to get in to camp? Embarass a guy you are trying to negotiate a fair deal with? Get the fans all riled up about a player you are trying to sign; what happens to that anger when you later sign him? You don't have to think much of Peters to concede that Brandon made a mistake. I hope he gets better at his job but the Peters saga was an absolute fiasco. It is his job to avoid fiascos.

[djcalvin79]

Never make that mistake again

Thanks for the linky.. that's a great reference!

[The Senator]

Missing camp has consequences and at the time, everyone on both sides of the issue seemed to acknowledge that. What I think many failed to grasp however was that those consequences would be far more costly to the team than to Peters. The result for Peters was to get out of bad contract early, no easy feat, and to land a huge contract with a perennial contender. The result for the Bills was Peters' performance last year in the first half of the season and the loss of one of their only pro bowl caliber players. Add in the necessity of juggling a significant portion of the line just to field a line that isn't outright laughable and there is no rational conclusion other than that Peters' holdout cost him virtually nothing and cost the team plenty.

 

The only value a player has to a team is the quality of his play. Anything that detracts from that quality hurts the team. Missing camp can have a negative impact on the quality of a player's performance. Therefore, when a player misses camp, regardless of the reason why, it hurts the team. The only value camp has for a player is that it helps him perform his best which eventually translates in to longevity as a starter and bigger contracts. But for an established player whose abilities are well known and whose position as a starter is assured, camp is not all that valuable. For a guy like Peters, wedded to a contract paying him far less than other players who made the pro bowl in 2007, he had little to lose and everything to gain with a hold out. And in the end, the strategy worked.

 

Those who endlessly point to his performance last year as awful pretty much make the point for me that the holdout cost the team way more than it cost Peters and that the time to resolve the Peters situation was in March of 2007.

 

This is where someone will start whining "...but the fines, the fines!!!". Talk about the swan song of the truly desperate. Given the money he made by gettting out of that contract early and the huge bucks Philly is paying him, I am sure Peters has not lost any sleep over the fines.

 

Face it, Peters came out of this smelling like a rose while we are trying to figure out if a career RT can play LT and if a LT can play RT. Smooth.

Face it, you could probably just distill your entire post down to, "I just love Jason Peters - his farts smell like roses."

[Steely Dan]

Hmm, try interpreting it one more time. Only one player has started for them on every opening day at LT since 1997 - Tra Thomas.

 

 

Truthfully I have a cold, might be flu, so I'm going to plead that I'm loopy because I'm a little disoriented. I don't want to admit idiocy.

 

 

Good luck with that, Philly.

 

 

 

what about © they just figured out they have a vastly overated $11MM LT who is still a project at pass blocking.

 

 

BTW, that article was about how Peters is going from A-line blocking in Buffalo to B-line blocking in Philly.

 

Stop ruining our Peters bashing with facts!

 

 

I still think the sack is the fault of a coaching staff that refused to run the ball late in the game.

 

Last I checked, you can't get sacked on a running play.

 

Ever see RJ play?

 

 

Right. But consider that he only played in 13 games, and against 10 teams. So less than a third of the league actually played against him last year, which makes me wonder how valuable the players vote is. I'm pretty sure that the players don't have the time to be watching games against teams they don't play in the middle of the season. So how many of the players from the 22 teams that didn't play against him last year just decided to go with the status quo and go with the guy who was voted in the year before?

 

I doubt it will happen, but maybe the player's voting in the future should somehow take into account whether you're voting for a player whom you've actually played against that year?

 

I used to think that's how it was. I thought voters could only vote for guys on teams they played against that year. The voting process is more effed up than I thought. Somebody quoted something from this in this thread before but the whole article is interesting.

 

 

Not trying to torque your jaw here dude, but isn't that sort of like saying that there's no way a poster on TSW would have the first clue as to how Peters handled his blocking assignments? That sure doesn't stop people from railing on him though.

 

How dare you!! How dare you insinuate that all of the people here are not football braniacs!! You should be banned sir, yes I said banned!!

 

Fair enough, but I think it was probably a rhetorical question, since we seem to agree that he had a bad year last year.

 

 

 

I think that he certainly has the tools to be a dominant LT for years to come, the question which remains to be answered is will he continue to work now that he has his fat contract. I don't the think the Bills were confident in this, which is why they traded him rather than paying him.

 

I think this is a case of the player sucking with his old team because he didn't care and will be willing to work for the new team because he's getting financial respect now. We'll see in two years if his contract is ok for him.

 

 

Never make that mistake again

 

Awesome dude! Thanks a lot!

[thebandit27]

Jason Peters is terrible. Do any of you actually watch the O-line play during a game? Why do you all think he is so good? He consistently gets beat around the outside. He does NOT have a quick first step into his drop. It is as simple as that. The proof that he sucks is in the games. Don't listen to what all the "talking heads" say. WATCH THE GAMES!! He played TERRIBLE last year. Langston Walker is much more sound fundamentally. And that will make up for whatever he lacks athletically compared to Peters.

 

Why should Brandon have given in to a guy who skipped out on ALL offseason work, and played with no heart after that? If this were any other team you would be saying that the player was a bum, and the front office should cut him.

 

Right, that's why one of the perennial playoff teams in the NFL traded for him.

 

There's not one other team in the NFL that would let it get to that point, that's why Peters was the first LT to be traded since 2000 (Willie Roaf-and that trade was a disaster for the Saints...the Chiefs, meanwhile, lead the league in offense for the next 3 years).

[The Senator]

Right, that's why one of the perennial playoff teams in the NFL traded for him.

Right you are - and now they realize they have an $11M/yr. fat f_ck who they need to teach how to block.

 

BuffTown is a church group compared to the 'City of Brotherly Love' - FatBoy will be eaten alive by the Philadelphia fans & media.

[macaroni]

Yeah right....

So what you're saying is O-line coach Jim McNally didn't "make" Jason Peters?

He took an overweight tight end, with limited blocking skills and turned him into a pro bowl left tackle.

McNally was as good as it gets.

 

 

I don't mean to infer that I can judge coaching talent any better than anyone else ...... but ....... exactly what makes McNally so special????

 

It seems to me if turning Jason Peters from an undrafted scrub overweight TE with limited blocking skills into even a passable LT is a sign of McNallys greatness what the heck is the fact that we had a bonifide RT, RG, C, and LG that couldn't block worth dog doo-doo attributable too?

 

IMHO ....... the fact Jason did well could be attributed to his desire to do well (and earn a big paycheck) while the skill level of the line in general can be attributed to the quality of coaching.

 

Then again I could be wrong

[thebandit27]

Right you are - and now they realize they have an $11M/yr. fat f_ck who they need to teach how to block.

 

BuffTown is a church group compared to the 'City of Brotherly Love' - FatBoy will be eaten alive by the Philadelphia fans & media.

 

So then, would any player that receives coaching on technique--after joining a new team, no less--be considered as lousy as you consider Peters?

 

I'm really trying to understand you here, Senator, but you're starting to come off like a bitter fan, not like someone with a logical point...

[Ramius]

So then, would any player that receives coaching on technique--after joining a new team, no less--be considered as lousy as you consider Peters?

 

I'm really trying to understand you here, Senator, but you're starting to come off like a bitter fan, not like someone with a logical point...

 

The only thing Peters blocked last season was his arteries.

[thebandit27]

The only thing Peters blocked last season was his arteries.

 

Go back and watch the first drive of the Jacksonville game (Peters' 1st game of the season)...then come back and respond.

[thewildrabbit]

When I read the sour grapes posts by other Bills fans it makes me feel embarrassed to be a Bills fan.

 

Personally, I don't blame Peters for wanting more money, the average life span of an NFL player is 3 years and they need to get as much as they can while they can because they never know if a career ending injury will happen in the next game. Not only that if RW isn't going to pay what a player is worth when they are considered one of the best at their position... again I don't blame him for leaving.

 

Bill O line coach Jim McNally was a very highly regarded coach in the NFL before he retired, he took a free agent TE and turned him into a 2x pro bowl tackle and compared him to legendary Bengal tackle Anthony Munoz. When is the last time you saw that happen?

 

Did any of you take a moment to consider that McNally retired last off season and Jauron promoted an unknown to coach the O line, and that new coach didn't get the job done? The entire line stunk last season, not just Peters who missed all the OTA's and training camp.

I can recall Kris Jenkins caving in 3 blockers and still getting to the QB, both guards and the center tried to block him and couldn't get it done.

 

Andy Reid stated he thinks JP is the best left tackle in the NFL, we will see if he is right. It wouldn't surprise me to see Peters make the pro bowl again this next season as an Eagle. Anyone think any Buffalo Bill O linemen will be going to the pro bowl this season ?