Taro T Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 So GM can't make Hummer profitable but the Chinese will? If the Chinese do better with Hummer than GM I'll eat Jason Peters' excrement. If China has the ability to make great cars why aren't there any that I know about? They are selling the name not the ability to convince anyone to buy it. IMO, this is like a heart surgeon selling his equipment to an engineer. The engineer may be able to figure out the technology but that won't make him a successful heart surgeon. I hate to tell you this but car companies buy each others products all the time and try to figure out how they do certain things. They aren't looking to duplicate the whole car just things they haven't thought of or want to know more about. In the early seventies Detroit was buying VW Beetles to see how they produced such quality. Why try industrial spying when you can legally go out and acquire a competitors product. Pen companies don't send in operatives to find out how another companies pens are made. They send a kid from the mail room down to the stationary store. How well they do running Hummer will depend on what exactly it is they bought. The article stated that GM will still make the cars which implies that the Chinese won't get the machinery and tooling to make the cars. The article further stated that the Chinese can make the autos in other locations which implies that they WILL get the machinery and tooling necessary to make the cars. Given China's track record w/ intellectual property protection, providing a Chinese company with improved methods of production will improve the quality of Chinese autos in general. Possessing the tools to make a higher quality car gives them much more of an ability to make a higher quality car than simply buying a separate car and reverse engineering it. "We have the car all pulled apart, now all we have to do is stamp this sheet out to these tolerances. No problem, right?" "Well, except for the fact that our stampers have a tolerance 1 order of magnitude greater than that." (Repeat same general discussion for the few thousand other parts that make up a car.) We won't even bring GM's legacy costs and Tengzhong's lack thereof into the discussion. And it isn't terribly surprising that you view this as giving an engineer the tools of a heart surgeon when this is actually the case of giving an engineer the tools of an engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Chrysler needed the financial backing of Fiat to remain viable, the gov't loans were dependent on getting additional private backing. What does 'financial backing' mean? My undertstanding is that there is no financial obligation on the part of Fiat, and no plan to invest capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 They are selling the name not the ability to convince anyone to buy it. At least someone gets it. The Chinese are not going to be able to do anything with Hummer. I can only laugh at the people that bought one of these pieces of crap. The Japanese are the ones that take our research and improve upon it. China, not so much. That's why they have to have American companies come in to build and provide the technology for things like their Olympic swimming venue, for just one example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 So GM can't make Hummer profitable but the Chinese will? If the Chinese do better with Hummer than GM I'll eat Jason Peters' excrement. If China has the ability to make great cars why aren't there any that I know about? They are selling the name not the ability to convince anyone to buy it. IMO, this is like a heart surgeon selling his equipment to an engineer. The engineer may be able to figure out the technology but that won't make him a successful heart surgeon. Congratulations! You are caller number #3 on the "I totally missed the point!" show. Where did I say that this particular move was going to specifically help them out economically? That's right, because I didn't PUNCH!! I also never said that we are sharing military secrets like Dean eluded to in that I was suggesting What I said is that this is a first step for them moving into the North American and other important auto markets, they will have access to auto technologies they didn't have, they will have access to motive of operations that they didn't have before, this is a first step in the right direction for them entering into the world auto markets. Ok. I'm ready for caller number #4, lines are open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Congratulations! You are caller number #3 on the "I totally missed the point!" show. Where did I say that this particular move was going to specifically help them out economically? That's right, because I didn't PUNCH!! I also never said that we are sharing military secrets like Dean eluded to in that I was suggesting What I said is that this is a first step for them moving into the North American and other important auto markets, they will have access to auto technologies they didn't have, they will have access to motive of operations that they didn't have before, this is a first step in the right direction for them entering into the world auto markets. Ok. I'm ready for caller number #4, lines are open. PUNCH!! PUNCH!! Where did I say it will specifically help them out economically? What I meant, since you don't get it, is that GM is divesting itself of divisions that are more trouble than they're worth to GM. Why hasn't GM sold off Chevy or Buick? They make money for the company. GM is giving up Hummer because they can't make it a profitable line. So, I'm saying the Chinese have bought a struggling brand. I doubt they will be able to do any better than GM did with it. The whole idea behind this is that the Chinese company thinks it will make money from it. Most of the manufacturing, if not all, will be done in America. The article is a little vague on if they will move some production overseas. So if production is done in America then how does that help them technologically very much? They can come over and watch production but they could also have people take a tour of GM. Where did I say they were sharing military secrets? You're show has been canceled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 January, 2009 HUMMER brand sales in 2008 were down 50.9 percent compared to 2007. The General sold 55,986 H1, H2, and H3 models in 2007 and 27,485 in 2008 (including just 692 units of the new H3T model). Fri., May 29, 2009 For the first three months of 2009, global sales of General Motors vehicles fell 28 percent to 1.6 million vehicles, according to the company. During the same period Hummer sales fell 62 percent to 5,013 vehicles. Besides some pompous ass who buys hummers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Besides some pompous ass who buys hummers? The military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 PUNCH!! PUNCH!! Where did I say it will specifically help them out economically? What I meant, since you don't get it, is that GM is divesting itself of divisions that are more trouble than they're worth to GM. Why hasn't GM sold off Chevy or Buick? They make money for the company. GM is giving up Hummer because they can't make it a profitable line. So, I'm saying the Chinese have bought a struggling brand. I doubt they will be able to do any better than GM did with it. The whole idea behind this is that the Chinese company thinks it will make money from it. Most of the manufacturing, if not all, will be done in America. The article is a little vague on if they will move some production overseas. So if production is done in America then how does that help them technologically very much? They can come over and watch production but they could also have people take a tour of GM. Where did I say they were sharing military secrets? You're show has been canceled. repeat caller. You said that So GM can't make Hummer profitable but the Chinese will? That implies economics. mmmkaaaay? In regards to you saying that they were sharing military secrets? ummm, I didn't say that, I said that Dean implied that I suggested that. Come on Steely, you can do better than that. In regards to how that helps them technologically very much just because it being produced in the US. Is that a serious well thought out question? Really? Ok, so just because they are producing it here INITIALLY, (because that is where the plants are all ready built DUH!!) are you implying that they won't know how the vehicles are produced? Are you implying that they made an investment to buy the Hummer unit, but do not have access to how to make them or the motive of operations? You guys are missing the whole point. It is all about that first big step in gaining access to important auto markets, and technologies in how to produce vehicles. *sigh* next caller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 repeat caller. You said that So GM can't make Hummer profitable but the Chinese will? That implies economics. mmmkaaaay? In regards to you saying that they were sharing military secrets? ummm, I didn't say that, I said that Dean implied that I suggested that. Come on Steely, you can do better than that. In regards to how that helps them technologically very much just because it being produced in the US. Is that a serious well thought out question? Really? Ok, so just because they are producing it here INITIALLY, (because that is where the plants are all ready built DUH!!) are you implying that they won't know how the vehicles are produced? Are you implying that they made an investment to buy the Hummer unit, but do not have access to how to make them or the motive of operations? You guys are missing the whole point. It is all about that first big step in gaining access to important auto markets, and technologies in how to produce vehicles. *sigh* next caller You said you didn't specifically say anything about it being economic. Which implies I did. mmmmmkay. You needed to be clearer. You should have said; Dean, where did you get the idea I said something about military secrets. JMO. All of us are missing the point. If a lot of people don't understand you then maybe it's you not them. mmmmkay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 You said you didn't specifically say anything about it being economic. Which implies I did. mmmmmkay. You needed to be clearer. You should have said; Dean, where did you get the idea I said something about military secrets. JMO. All of us are missing the point. If a lot of people don't understand you then maybe it's you not them. mmmmkay. mmmkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Besides some pompous ass who buys hummers? Trophy wives of pompous asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The military? The military version of the Hummer is not the same as the commercial street hummer. The Hummer H1, http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/Media/580x3...37004D5956D.jpg is based on the military all-purpose vehicle known as the Humvee. http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.asp...cumentid=435127 And the Humvee is starting to be replaced with a newer vehicle. For those that like Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMMWV_replacement_process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Typical, you miss the point, just like a good democrat. It's not about Hummer per se' and what it brings to them economically to the table. It is the technology they gain, and what this does for them to enter the US and world auto markets. It's about the big picture, which many people don't seem to be able to see. Yea American cars are made SO WELL that 2/3 of the American automakers are going down the toilet. I'm shaking in my shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The military version of the Hummer is not the same as the commercial street hummer. The Hummer H1, http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/Media/580x3...37004D5956D.jpg is based on the military all-purpose vehicle known as the Humvee. http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.asp...cumentid=435127 And the Humvee is starting to be replaced with a newer vehicle. For those that like Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMMWV_replacement_process I wasn't referring to our military per se.......China has one too.......and as far as differences... http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/roadtests/mil...mers/index.html Doesn't this whole deal strike anyone as slightly weird? GM was manufacturing a commercial version of the H1 until 2006 and probably still has the capability. Not that I often quote Heritage..but...this actually sounds pretty reasonable... http://blog.heritage.org/2009/06/02/china-...g-a-sweet-tune/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Maybe they think they're buying the HMMWV line instead. I'm really surprised no mouth-breather's made that mistake yet: "Oh my God, we're letting GM sell military vehicles to the Chinese! Between that, their ballistic anti-ship missile, and their Antarctic-based anti-satellite laser, we'll all be speaking Mandarin within a month!" Yes we will. Hopefully the food will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I wasn't referring to our military per se.......China has one too.......and as far as differences... http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/roadtests/mil...mers/index.html Doesn't this whole deal strike anyone as slightly weird? GM was manufacturing a commercial version of the H1 until 2006 and probably still has the capability. Not that I often quote Heritage..but...this actually sounds pretty reasonable... http://blog.heritage.org/2009/06/02/china-...g-a-sweet-tune/ In military terms, the Humvee (H1) is just a 3/4 ton truck. Valuable (insanely so, in military terms), but hardly a revolutionary piece of technology. And I'm sure AM General still has the capability to manufacture them. So do the Chinese, for that matter...they've been building them for a while now. In that respect, the purchase of Hummer is somewhere between a formality and an irrelevency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Yes we will. Hopefully the food will improve. When I said "mouth-breather," you were really the last person I was thinking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 So GM can't make Hummer profitable but the Chinese will? If the Chinese do better with Hummer than GM I'll eat Jason Peters' excrement. I cant wait to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 So GM can't make Hummer profitable but the Chinese will? They at least have the ability to dump them on the market, unlike GM, who had to worry about that pesky "profit" thing. (At least nominally. I've seen no evidence the past decade that they actually worried about profits...) If the Chinese do better with Hummer than GM I'll eat Jason Peters' excrement. That was a more impressive promise before the sh-- sandwich he fed us all last season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Yea American cars are made SO WELL that 2/3 of the American automakers are going down the toilet. I'm shaking in my shoes. once again, you missed the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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