Kelly the Dog Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 http://mcmasterlifeline.com/index.php?opti...Itemid=88888890 Why am I supposed to trust a lying baby killer? Or is this one of those things where you just say "I was only kidding" or go to confession for 22 seconds and be forgiven for everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Yes, she changed her mind. She can do that, because she's allowed choose what she believes, rather than have it forced on her. That's why it's called PRO-CHOICE. That little irony always seems to elude these nice thoughtful folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Yes, she changed her mind. She can do that, because she's allowed choose what she believes, rather than have it forced on her. That's why it's called PRO-CHOICE. You're right. I'm tired of society forcing its moral ideals on me. I'm going to go ahead and kill those guys next door who are always blasting Lil Wayne at 3 in the morning...they're really inconvenciencing me and it's my choice! Yay for Pro Choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 You're right. I'm tired of society forcing its moral ideals on me. I'm going to go ahead and kill those guys next door who are always blasting Lil Wayne at 3 in the morning...they're really inconvenciencing me and it's my choice! Yay for Pro Choice! I think the argument goes awry when you start to compare living and breathing humans to something that is, in many ways, a parasite on its host. For much of its early existence, a fetus can't survive outside the womb. And, while you may call it living, and may also wish to call it human (even if it has no brain function and can't survive outside the womb) it is definitely qualitatively different than a person that is alive in the world. Not recognizing the difference is as ridiculous as those who assume it is nothing until it is born. The real problem is in finding a definition that recognizes the differences, while respecting the similarities, IMO. EDIT: Consciousness has to count for something, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think the argument goes awry when you start to compare living and breathing humans to something that is, in many ways, a parasite on its host. For much of its early existence, a fetus can't survive outside the womb. And, while you may call it living, and may also wish to call it human (even if it has no brain function and can't survive outside the womb) it is definitely qualitatively different than a person that is alive in the world. Not recognizing the difference is as ridiculous as those who assume it is nothing until it is born. The real problem is in finding a definition that recognizes the differences, while respecting the similarities, IMO. EDIT: Consciousness has to count for something, IMO. I do see your point, and I understand the impetus for debate. But let's just say, for argument's sake, that a fetus is indeed not a human. Surely we can agree that it WILL be a human, unless something unexpected happens. So that begs this question...is it any less evil to kill a prospective human with prospective consciousess than it is to kill a human? I say no. If I snatch an egg from a robin's nest and crush it in my hand, am I not, in effect, killing a bird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I do see your point, and I understand the impetus for debate. But let's just say, for argument's sake, that a fetus is indeed not a human. Surely we can agree that it WILL be a human, unless something unexpected happens. So that begs this question...is it any less evil to kill a prospective human with prospective consciousess than it is to kill a human? I say no.If I snatch an egg from a robin's nest and crush it in my hand, am I not, in effect, killing a bird? Or you're eating an egg! But, I have no problem believing you feel it is as evil to kill a fetus as it is a human. I don't agree, but I understand the position, I think. But, the question is, not whether it is right or wrong, it is whether the state/law should be involved. Trying to legally control what a woman can do with her own body, while this prospective human lives inside of her, is insane, IMO. She risks death, as well as a number of less serious, but otherwise negative negative "side effects". Who are we to demand she go through with this, under any circumstances? There are a number of other reasons I think legal enforcement isn't the answer, but that one is enough for me...especially this late at night, as I need to go to sleep. I completely support trying to convince women there are other options, and to help them with contraception, natal care (if that is an issue) and adoption services, etc. Use the money spent trying to change the law, to help change the behavior that is so bothersome to so many. There are a lot of things that I think are horrid, and that nobody should be able to do. But, I understand that just because I think that is no reason to actually make those things illegal. But I can try to to my best to see that fewer people do those things, outside of coercion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I do see your point, and I understand the impetus for debate. But let's just say, for argument's sake, that a fetus is indeed not a human. Surely we can agree that it WILL be a human, unless something unexpected happens. So that begs this question...is it any less evil to kill a prospective human with prospective consciousess than it is to kill a human? I say no. If I snatch an egg from a robin's nest and crush it in my hand, am I not, in effect, killing a bird? Can you break it down further though? If you didn't wear that condom it would have become a fetus. But you wore the condom and prevented a human being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 You're right. I'm tired of society forcing its moral ideals on me. I'm going to go ahead and kill those guys next door who are always blasting Lil Wayne at 3 in the morning...they're really inconvenciencing me and it's my choice! Yay for Pro Choice! If they're merely blastospheres, I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 reading (and that's really a hard job) this whole topic i was thinking: "ive passed more than 2 years of my life in the US, visited more than 30 of the 50 states, do spend about half my free time tlistening, watching, reading american stuff and still i have no clue why abortion is still an issue in the USA... it's with their incredible love for fire weapons the true american enigmas". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'm lazy and don't feel like looking up my post from the past (it may have gotten lost in the big crash several years ago) but a fertilized egg is a unique living human being. No, that does not make it a human being. That makes it a cell. It it a cell with the possible potential to develop into a human being, but a fertilized cell is NOT a "unique living human being." It is nothing more than a cell with a couple more chromosomes than you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaDarin_Has_AIDS Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 A fertilized egg is a unique human being. Killing it is murder. I wonder how Tiller is explaining his BS to St Peter right now. St Peter is probably rolling his eyes and thinking "Does he think I'm stupid?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 A fertilized egg is a unique human being. Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaDarin_Has_AIDS Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Prove it. No. The burden is on you to disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 No. The burden is on you to disprove it. No, you made the affirmative statement. Burden's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaDarin_Has_AIDS Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 No, you made the affirmative statement. Burden's on you. No. The burden is always on the skeptic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 No. The burden is always on the skeptic. 1) No, it's not. Never is. 2) You haven't yet provided anything to be skeptical about, merely stated a personal opinion that you can't possibly support with anything resembling a fact. 2b) You're a !@#$ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 No. The burden is always on the skeptic. I'm quite skeptical about Gnomes that live in Chevy Blazers. I just can't find the right argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Lieutenant Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 1) No, it's not. Never is. 2) You haven't yet provided anything to be skeptical about, merely stated a personal opinion that you can't possibly support with anything resembling a fact. 2b) You're a !@#$ing idiot. Look at yourself. You're engaging in heated exchanges with the most blatant of trolls in at least three separate threads. What's wrong with you? Get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 You're right. I'm tired of society forcing its moral ideals on me. I'm going to go ahead and kill those guys next door who are always blasting Lil Wayne at 3 in the morning...they're really inconvenciencing me and it's my choice! Yay for Pro Choice! You're free to kill anyone you want. Just be prepared to face the legal consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Look at yourself. You're engaging in heated exchanges with the most blatant of trolls in at least three separate threads. What's wrong with you? Get a life. You respond to someone responding to a troll with "get a life"? Look up the definition of irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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