RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Just speculation on your part, if I was the OC and I called the play I wouldn't let my HC take the blame for it, if I can call the play, I can own up to it regardless if it backfired or not. If DJ lied and I was Ralph Wilson and found out, I would fire them both on the spot. Oh please, stop it with the idiotic chest thumping about "lying"... Head coaches are supposed to stand up for their coordinators. If they do not, they are excoriated for "throwing them under the bus."
Kultarr Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 It's been alleged that Turk is calling the plays, however I'm convinced our coaching staff in general may be using the "ask madden" button. Is that like a Staples Easy button?
Guest dog14787 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Oh please, stop it with the idiotic chest thumping about "lying"... Head coaches are supposed to stand up for their coordinators. If they do not, they are excoriated for "throwing them under the bus." That's your opinion, I would appreciate the truth myself and if everyone assumes Shonert made the call anyway, why lie about it. Do you want men working for you who can't take responsibility for their actions? All it says to me is my OC sucks and I'm so loyal to a fault I'm going to stand up for him no matter what he does, so no, I disagree. Turk Shonert showed poor character for not telling DJ, this is on me. You give someone a job to do, let them do it period.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 The answer to your question is very likely that the OC and DC make 90-95% of the calls. At certain crucial times in the game, third or fourth and short, red zone, two minutes, fourth quarter, etc, Jauron will step in and either make the call or overrule a call he hears that he doesn't like. I don't think anyone here knows which calls those have been, but Jauron likes to take blame for bad ones, and has been doing it since he got here. All of the above I bet is true. What I don't know at all is whether Jauron has taken the blame for bad calls that he didnt make, therefore protecting his coaches. It's my opinion that he has. It's also quite possible that he is blaming himself for not changing a call that didnt work.
Guest dog14787 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 The answer to your question is very likely that the OC and DC make 90-95% of the calls. At certain crucial times in the game, third or fourth and short, red zone, two minutes, fourth quarter, etc, Jauron will step in and either make the call or overrule a call he hears that he doesn't like. I don't think anyone here knows which calls those have been, but Jauron likes to take blame for bad ones, and has been doing it since he got here. All of the above I bet is true. What I don't know at all is whether Jauron has taken the blame for bad that calls he didnt make, therefore protecting his coaches. It's my opinion that he has. It's also quite possible that he is blaming himself for not changing a call that didnt work. I suppose that's very possible, he knows the play call and considering DJ conservative nature, He's probably thinking, doggonit, I should have changed the play.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 I suppose that's very possible, he knows the play call and considering DJ conservative nature, He's probably thinking, doggonit, I should have changed the play. The "truth," in this case is thus rather more complicated, wouldn't you agree?
K-9 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Just speculation on your part, if I was the OC and I called the play I wouldn't let my HC take the blame for it, if I can call the play, I can own up to it regardless if it backfired or not. If DJ lied and I was Ralph Wilson and found out, I would fire them both on the spot. You have much to learn about NFL politics. Secondly, RW new EXACTLY what the situation was/is. There was nothing for him to 'find out about' in the first place. Jauron is the quintessential 'fall on the sword' type. NFL franchises, despite how the Bills appear, aren't run like high school sororities. GO BILLS!!!
Lurker Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 It's also quite possible that he is blaming himself for not changing a call that didnt work. That's the most likely scenario,. He may have heard the call over the headphones, but didn't overrule it, thereby making it his ultimate responsibility when it failed. Just like in 90% of management situations, in business or otherwise--the buck stops at the top, regardless of which middle managers actually made the poor decision.
K-9 Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 NFL Politics? What do you think Parcells would do? I would imagine he would say my OC made a bone head play call because that's what it was so call it what you want, but the person that made the call deserves all the credit for it in my opinion. Parcells would have done the same thing Jauron did. Parcells has done the same thing many times in the past. You're over analyzing the situation, it isn't that complicated. HCs take the heat because they're paid to take the heat. They don't call out their assistant coaches and pass the buck. And your example of Parcells is perfect. He NEVER passed the buck as an HC. The reason why coaches do this are many. But here's an important one in Jauron's case: when he gets fired by the Bills he'll be snatched up as somebody's DC before the ink dries on his plane ticket out of town. I'll let you connect your own dots as to why that is. GO BILLS!!!
spartacus Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Parcells would have done the same thing Jauron did. Parcells has done the same thing many times in the past. You're over analyzing the situation, it isn't that complicated. HCs take the heat because they're paid to take the heat. They don't call out their assistant coaches and pass the buck. And your example of Parcells is perfect. He NEVER passed the buck as an HC. The reason why coaches do this are many. But here's an important one in Jauron's case: when he gets fired by the Bills he'll be snatched up as somebody's DC before the ink dries on his plane ticket out of town. I'll let you connect your own dots as to why that is. GO BILLS!!! If the OC under Parcells made as many boneheaded moves as Turk is accused of making, then Parcells would have canned his butt in short order. With the Bills we get the continuity of more boneheaded play calls - no matter who takes the blame
K-9 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 If the OC under Parcells made as many boneheaded moves as Turk is accused of making, then Parcells would have canned his butt in short order. With the Bills we get the continuity of more boneheaded play calls - no matter who takes the blame I'm sure that's true but Parcell's STILL wouldn't throw one of his coaches under the bus during a post-game press conference. And before we all throw Schonert under the bus, please remember the single most important factor in playcalling: your personnel. Defenses knew what we COULDN'T do on offense last season. I can't overstate the importance of that little fact. GO BILLS!!!
Guest dog14787 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I'm sure that's true but Parcell's STILL wouldn't throw one of his coaches under the bus during a post-game press conference. And before we all throw Schonert under the bus, please remember the single most important factor in playcalling: your personnel. Defenses knew what we COULDN'T do on offense last season. I can't overstate the importance of that little fact. GO BILLS!!! I don't get how allowing your OC to take responsibility for a call he made is throwing him under the bus, maybe its just me, but I'm going to have allot more respect for a man if he owns up to his mistakes rather than let someone else take the blame for mistakes he made.
K-9 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I don't get how allowing your OC to take responsibility for a call he made is throwing him under the bus, maybe its just me, but I'm going to have allot more respect for a man if he owns up to his mistakes rather than let someone else take the blame for mistakes he made. It's just you. Well, you and your not understanding how the coaching fraternity works in the NFL. And that wouldn't have been taking responsibility for just any other call. It was a call that blew the game, plain and simple. Notice how Schonert has owned up to calls, with Jauron's blessing, that happened in other circumstances in other games. But this case called for the HC to fall on the sword. Pretty simple. Pretty routine. GO BILLS!!!
Guest dog14787 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 It's just you. Well, you and your not understanding how the coaching fraternity works in the NFL. GO BILLS!!! So let me get this straight, you are going to give someone the responsibility to run your offense because you have faith in his abilities, yet when it comes time to take responsibility when things go wrong you say don't blame him, that's all on me. I've got a 34 year old cousin that never grew up because his parents have done the same thing his whole life, he makes a mistake, its their fault even though he made the mistake. Sorry buddy, I don't buy your understanding of how the coaching fraternity works, at least not a winning one.
K-9 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 So let me get this straight, you are going to give someone the responsibility to run your offense because you have faith in his abilities, yet when it comes time to take responsibility when things go wrong you say don't blame him, that's all on me... Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying and the evidence is overwhelming in the history of the NFL. OCs, including Schonert HAVE taken responsibility when things have gone wrong. They HAVE owned up to bad playcalls, etc. The difference with the call to end the Jets game is that it LOST the game for us. Every HC in the league is going to fall on his sword in that instance, Parcells included. Why is that so hard to understand? What part of "the buck stops here" don't you appreciate? Can you NOT see that as a desirable trait when dealing with the press? Lets just agree to disagree. GO BILLS!!!
Guest dog14787 Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying and the evidence is overwhelming in the history of the NFL. OCs, including Schonert HAVE taken responsibility when things have gone wrong. They HAVE owned up to bad playcalls, etc. The difference with the call to end the Jets game is that it LOST the game for us. Every HC in the league is going to fall on his sword in that instance, Parcells included. Why is that so hard to understand? What part of "the buck stops here" don't you appreciate? Can you NOT see that as a desirable trait when dealing with the press? Lets just agree to disagree. GO BILLS!!! We can do that, but any good OC or DC in the league is going to stand on there own two feet. Show me another example of this happening where a game was decided with a bad offensive play call (by an OC) and the HC says I personally am at fault, lets get this straight now, not we made a mistake, I made the mistake, since the evidence is so overwhelming. What evidence? because I want the truth, did you order the code red on JP Losman? ( just kidding)
spartacus Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying and the evidence is overwhelming in the history of the NFL. OCs, including Schonert HAVE taken responsibility when things have gone wrong. They HAVE owned up to bad playcalls, etc. The difference with the call to end the Jets game is that it LOST the game for us. Every HC in the league is going to fall on his sword in that instance, Parcells included. Why is that so hard to understand? What part of "the buck stops here" don't you appreciate? Can you NOT see that as a desirable trait when dealing with the press? Lets just agree to disagree. GO BILLS!!! sounds like lack of accountability that has plagued the Bills for the last decade
Kultarr Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Why is it so hard to believe that Jauron was completely truthful when he said he made the call? Head coaches do make play calls and do override the suggestions for their assistants at crucial points in the game.
NoName Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Dazed and Confused thanks for the great post earlier...very informative
PushthePile Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 Turk and Dick call the plays but the other teams make the plays.
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