DC Tom Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 the BABY. BABY. Say it with me, chuckie. BABY. It's not a fetus or an embryo, it's a CHILD. 110427[/snapback] The very moment you prove that life begins at conception is the very moment I become pro-life. Until then, it's an article of faith...and who are you to say your article of faith is more valid than anyone else's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Here's a good pro choice opinion that appeared in today's Newsday http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-...news-columnists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 The very moment you prove that live begins at conception is the very moment I become pro-life. Until then, it's an article of faith...and who are you to say your article of faith is more valid than anyone else's? 110446[/snapback] Well, give us a definition then. Does human life begin when the infant passes through the cervix? When is it? A 3, 5, 8 month-old fetus is only the result of growth that was initiated by conception. Is the small first shoot emerging from the soil from a wheat seed, not a blade of wheat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Well, give us a definition then. Does human life begin when the infant passes through the cervix? When is it? A 3, 5, 8 month-old fetus is only the result of growth that was initiated by conception. Is the small first shoot emerging from the soil from a wheat seed, not a blade of wheat? 110467[/snapback] I didn't say "give" a definition. I said "prove" a definition. Point being not that there isn't a definition; I can make a strong case for several, in fact. The point being that any definition is an article of faith and not demonstrable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 There have been cases. The gov of Illinois (and IIRC he was, and still is, a pro-death-penalty Republican) stayed all executions pending review b/c of this. Link And if you think that these are the only ones, maybe you just don't want to accept what has been done in the name of "the people." The quasi-judicial hangings from the magnolia trees of the South weren't all that long ago, relatively. If you think the justice system is fine and dandy, just hope that you never get railroaded. It does happen, even now. 108550[/snapback] So in other words, you don't have an example of anyone who was innocent when they were executed either. The fact the the gov of Illinois is a bleeding heart who did an end run around the will of the people in his state doesn't mean anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 I shall call all my five (yes 5) children tonight and explain that I misinformed them. I had always been convinced that my pregnancies resulted from various birth control methods that failed. But after reading many of these posts I'm now convinced that my pregnancies were a result of irresponsibility. Thanks for the clarification 110443[/snapback] I am the eldest of five unplanned pregnancies. My favorite line to my mother whenever she complained about us was 'DIDN'T YOU EVER HEAR OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD?!' Job's Comforter, that would be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 My worthless, admittedly, worthless opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight. I was raised Catholic, and a lot of (well, some) stuck. I'm also a realist who knows this is out there and there has to be some common ground someday. Is there an "accepted" point in time, where most everyone agrees a baby can survive outside the womb? Whatever the earliest preemie is on record that survived to grow. There's the cutoff. Yes, I know, could be a new record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 My worthless, admittedly, worthless opinion. I don't have a dog in the fight. I was raised Catholic, and a lot of (well, some) stuck. I'm also a realist who knows this is out there and there has to be some common ground someday. Is there an "accepted" point in time, where most everyone agrees a baby can survive outside the womb? Whatever the earliest preemie is on record that survived to grow. There's the cutoff. Yes, I know, could be a new record. 110551[/snapback] Ever the pragmatist, AD has a good take on this that really removes it from the never ending merry-go-round of competing subjective moralities. Illegal or legal, it is going to occur so do we make it safe or do we pull a prohibition and start creating criminals out of citizens and tie up the police raiding doctor's offices instead of tracking down real criminals? Until a modern day Oracle at Delphi is available to solve the most insoluble mysteries of life, we will have to make do with being practical on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyLee Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Is there an "accepted" point in time, where most everyone agrees a baby can survive outside the womb? Whatever the earliest preemie is on record that survived to grow. There's the cutoff. Yes, I know, could be a new record. 110551[/snapback] Survives on its own, truly survives on its own outside the womb? Or survives with life support and feeding tubes? Most significantly early preemies can't make it without medical intervention. They'd die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Survives on its own, truly survives on its own outside the womb? Or survives with life support and feeding tubes? Most significantly early preemies can't make it without medical intervention. They'd die. 110588[/snapback] If we use that definition, abortion would be available until most people turn 30, and then again at 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 IMO, the whole concept of "pro-choice" is clever marketing. The left has successfully swung the debate from "should it be legal to kill my unwanted, unborn child" to this debate about a woman having the "right to decide what happens to her body". You correctly point out that she did have the control over her body at the time she became pregnant. Now, having said that, I favor keeping abortion legal even though I find it personally distasteful. Why? Hell, if YOU don't want your kid here, I don't either. He'll probably end up on the dole or in prison anyway. 105592[/snapback] Yes sir - that sums up my feelings on abortion perfectly. Philosophically, I guess I'm pro-life. Unfortunately, trying to convince people to be responsible for their own actions only works in Fantasy Land, and not in the real world. So, I am pro-choice by default. Anything that gets the freeway moving faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyLee Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 If we use that definition, abortion would be available until most people turn 30, and then again at 65. 110591[/snapback] PREEMIES Darin, PREEMIES!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 PREEMIES Darin, PREEMIES!! 110612[/snapback] Oh, as in premature. I was surmising IMmature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 The very moment you prove that life begins at conception is the very moment I become pro-life. Until then, it's an article of faith...and who are you to say your article of faith is more valid than anyone else's? 110446[/snapback] Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I'll take a shot at answering your question becuase in my mind this is how it shakes out. 1) I dont think a collection of cells at around 8 weeks is really a baby. 2) Who are you to force a woman to have a child she does not want. 3) You'll be the same person bitching about a welfare mom that cant support a child. Maybe dont force her to have a child in the first place. 4) Abortions if abolished will go underground where many woman will die and be harmed from underground abortion clinics. Think about this, if your daughter became pregnant before mentally and financially ready to handle it, would you prefer she had a real choice with real doctors in a safe environment? I know I would, and saying dont get pregnant first off is not a solution. Its sticking your head in the sand. I have taught my daughter to wait for marriage. But just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I am the eldest of five unplanned pregnancies. My favorite line to my mother whenever she complained about us was 'DIDN'T YOU EVER HEAR OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD?!' Job's Comforter, that would be me. 110529[/snapback] Un planned and unwanted are too very different things. I'm assuming your Mom was adult and married and in a position to deal with a child. 15 and 16 year old girls are not prepared mentally and financially to deal with the riigors of raising a child. Hell, I'm in my 40's and struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Also everyone is missing the point. It's not your decision to make for every woman in America, you can have your opinion. But dont ram your opinion down everyone else's throat. What if I belonged to the Tofu society and we lobbied congress and got a bill approved that you must eat Tofu every day for lunch and dinner because it is good for you. Wouldnt you say, I hate Tofu, if you want to eat everyday thats great but leave me out of it ? Same thing in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Also everyone is missing the point. It's not your decision to make for every woman in America, you can have your opinion. But dont ram your opinion down everyone else's throat. What if I belonged to the Tofu society and we lobbied congress and got a bill approved that you must eat Tofu every day for lunch and dinner because it is good for you. Wouldnt you say, I hate Tofu, if you want to eat everyday thats great but leave me out of it ? Same thing in my eyes. 110928[/snapback] There's a huge difference between eating tofu and murdering babies. Here's a better solution....wanna be promiscuous? GET ON THE PILL OR GET SNIPPED. That way you can f*ck around all you want and not worry about babies. Innocent lives. How's that?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 There's a huge difference between eating tofu and murdering babies. 110985[/snapback] Thanks for explaining that. I was trying to think of a nice way to call the post you responded to the most moronic thing I've ever read on this board (amazing when you understand Debbie is a regular contributor and Tenny and Boomer used to be), but couldn't be original enough to do it justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Thanks for explaining that. I was trying to think of a nice way to call the post you responded to the most moronic thing I've ever read on this board (amazing when you understand Debbie is a regular contributor and Tenny and Boomer used to be), but couldn't be original enough to do it justice. 110995[/snapback] The sheer ignorance of some of the lefties on this board amazes me. Really it shouldn't, but it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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