Six consecutive years where you just plain suck on offense

[Flbillsfan#1]

Tom Brady wasnt a high pick.

True Brady was the 1000000000000000 to 1 longshot that PAID OFF.

[Big Daddy JC]

Twas on a Sunday afternoon

The boys were in the yard

With Jesus playing fullback

And Moses playing guard.

 

The angels in the bandstand

Let out a mighty yell

As Jesus scored a touchdown

To beat the boys from hell.

 

"Rock 'em Sock 'em Moses block 'em.

Yea God"

 

Nothing like having old Mo' on your side. You know, he's been known to open a hole big enough to drive an entire nation through.

[LGB]

Nothing like having old Mo' on your side. You know, he's been known to open a hole big enough to drive an entire nation through.

Sounds like the Bills could use a little of that...maybe bring Frank Reich (Master of Divinity and Pastor) in an advisory role.

[thewildrabbit]

I have to disagree. You obviously haven't read their press clippings;

 

Luke 4:28-30

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. BUT HE WALKED RIGHT THROUGH THE CROWD AND WENT ON HIS WAY.

 

John 7:30

At this they tried to seize him, BUT NO ONE LAID A HAND ON HIM, BECAUSE HIS TIME HAD NOT YET COME.

 

John 8:59

At this, they picked up stones to stone him, BUT JESUS HID HIMSELF, SLIPPING AWAY FROM THE TEMPLE GROUNDS.

 

No O line metioned anywhere. If you think God doesn't have a miraculous ground game, maybe you worship a second string god. If so, you need to upgrade to the real thing.

God was out for the season last year, but he should be back and throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker this year. Jesus was the RB, not God. From the looks of this years Bills O line I'll wager God and his Patriot crew will be sweeping the Bills again this season as they part the Bills defense like the red sea and score over and over.

 

 

 

Dunno why God would play for Belichick though.

[Big Daddy JC]

God was out for the season last year, but he should be back and throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker this year. Jesus was the RB, not God. From the looks of this years Bills O line I'll wager God and his Patriot crew will be sweeping the Bills again this season as they part the Bills defense like the red sea and score over and over.

 

 

 

Dunno why God would play for Belichick though.

 

Yep, you definitely need that upgrade. Don't waste BIG time chasing a small "g" god.

[thewildrabbit]

Yep, you definitely need that upgrade. Don't waste BIG time chasing a small "g" god.

You missed the entire point, God doesn't wear a Bills uniform, not with this coaching staff, and even if he did he would fail behind the O line Jauron is putting on the field this season.

 

So you be certain to go to your synagogue / church and get on your knees and pray to your God or god, that Trent Edwards doesn't get sacrificed or crucified this season.

 

 

 

In my earlier post, God was the QB, Jesus was the RB, get it right.

No O line metioned anywhere. If you think God doesn't have a miraculous ground game, maybe you worship a second string god. If so, you need to upgrade to the real thing.

[Big Daddy JC]

You missed the entire point, God doesn't wear a Bills uniform, not with this coaching staff, and even if he did he would fail behind the O line Jauron is putting on the field this season.

 

So you be certain to go to your synagogue / church and get on your knees and pray to your God or god, that Trent Edwards doesn't get sacrificed or crucified this season.

 

 

 

In my earlier post, God was the QB, Jesus was the RB, get it right.

 

You have missed the point of my post. Yes, God is the QB and Jesus is the RB. That's why the plays cited were of JESUS (the RB). BTW, your metaphor falls apart whe you talk about the QB (GOD) being crucified. My point is that God can do ALL things (even without an O line) and that He can not fail regardless of any prediction you make. Anyway, since this is all in fun there's no reason to get your blood presure up.

[Mickey]

The rookies were considered among the best at their positions. If they were late round picks and/or players who were considered longshots, I would agree with you and say that the Bills did little to improve themselves.

 

Rhodes has been a starter in the past, on a SB-winning team no less, and was #2 with the Colts last year and outperformed their starter. He will start the season #2 for the Bills and if either Lynch or Jackson get hurt, will be the #2 guy. Beyond that, the Bills can utilize his pass-catching and short-yardage skills.

 

Hangartner was a de facto starter for the Panthers. Whether they chose to make him a permanent starter is immaterial. And this is the same team that dumped center Justin Hartwig, who only went on to anchor the SB-winning Steelers' O-line, while the guy they had starting over Hangartner continued to miss starts due to injury, and during which games there was no dropoff in O-line play when Hangartner was in there.

 

Who the F cares if TO is a jerk? If that's the best you can come up with, while ignoring the huge boost he'll give to the offense by his presence, there's really not much more to say.

 

Finally, regarding the O-line, it's early still. Worst-case scenario is they keep the right side the same as it was last year, start one of the rookies at LG, and have Bell or Chambers starting at LT. None of the LT's can do worse than the "Pro Bowler" who performed poorly last year.

Now was that so hard? See, a rational discussion were we disagree but no one is necessarily being an a$$

 

Rhodes is not going to be on the field absent injury apart from the first three games but last year, we had Lynch and Freddie for the first three games, this year we will have Freddie and Rhodes. I don't see that as an improvement at all. If anything, Lynch's trouble with the law required us to invest a little more than one would like on a third stringer. Lynch and Freddie are good receivers as it is so even if Rhodes does see some time after the first three games on passing downs, I fail to see how he would be an improvement over Lynch and Freddie unless you think he is a significantly better receiver than those two guys which simply is not the case. The fact that once upon a time he played on a Superbowl team is meaningless. That team didn't make the superbowl last year and he didn't make their roster. He is just a garden variety aging vet RB looking for another couple years before hanging up the cleats who we signed to give us depth given that, at the time, we had our starter looking at a suspension and our No. 2 guy in a contract dispute. For all we know Rhodes was nothing more than a tactic to get Freddie to sign.

 

There is not a single coach in the NFL that would agree with you that Bell, a practice squad player, or Chambers, a career back up, will do as good a job as Peters would have. Not one. The only place on the planet where that thought is anything other than laughable is here on this board where so many took his hold out personally and where he is about as popular as a terrorist. Not exactly an objective group. The people whose jobs depend on knowing who can and can't play think differently, even in Buffalo where they tried to sign him afterall the hoopla and made pretty eye popping offers though certainly not what Philly was willing to shovel.

 

I wish I had a dime for every guy ever drafted who was thought to be the best at his position who tanked. It is one thing to bet on that here and there but we are betting on that across the board on the offensive line. Two rookies. Its a fact. They could end up being very good. But this year? I think the odds are against it. In fact, I think the odds are that only one of them will be good and that won't be until late in the year. I am all for it, I like both of them but I am skeptical that a rookie is going to play better than Butler did at RG last year so that isn't an improvement. I am skeptical that Butler will be a better RT than Walker was so that isn't going to be an improvement. I am also skeptical that Walker will be a better LT than would Peters, especially a Peters with his contract mess worked out before camp. So that is not an improvement either. Dockery sucked and so did Preston at C. I think we will improve there but it would be hard not to. The inside of the line is going from 2/3's suck and 1/3 good to 3/3's mediocre.

 

In any event, this discussion started with a guy who posted that he thought the team didn't really meaningfully address what has been a perennially carppy offense so that this year might not be such a good one. Someone responded with a list of the changes they did make as if they were self evident as major strides. I don't think they are and you do. I hope I am wrong.

[VOR]

Now was that so hard? See, a rational discussion were we disagree but no one is necessarily being an a$

 

Rhodes is not going to be on the field absent injury apart from the first three games but last year, we had Lynch and Freddie for the first three games, this year we will have Freddie and Rhodes. I don't see that as an improvement at all. If anything, Lynch's trouble with the law required us to invest a little more than one would like on a third stringer. Lynch and Freddie are good receivers as it is so even if Rhodes does see some time after the first three games on passing downs, I fail to see how he would be an improvement over Lynch and Freddie unless you think he is a significantly better receiver than those two guys which simply is not the case. The fact that once upon a time he played on a Superbowl team is meaningless. That team didn't make the superbowl last year and he didn't make their roster. He is just a garden variety aging vet RB looking for another couple years before hanging up the cleats who we signed to give us depth given that, at the time, we had our starter looking at a suspension and our No. 2 guy in a contract dispute. For all we know Rhodes was nothing more than a tactic to get Freddie to sign.

 

There is not a single coach in the NFL that would agree with you that Bell, a practice squad player, or Chambers, a career back up, will do as good a job as Peters would have. Not one. The only place on the planet where that thought is anything other than laughable is here on this board where so many took his hold out personally and where he is about as popular as a terrorist. Not exactly an objective group. The people whose jobs depend on knowing who can and can't play think differently, even in Buffalo where they tried to sign him afterall the hoopla and made pretty eye popping offers though certainly not what Philly was willing to shovel.

 

I wish I had a dime for every guy ever drafted who was thought to be the best at his position who tanked. It is one thing to bet on that here and there but we are betting on that across the board on the offensive line. Two rookies. Its a fact. They could end up being very good. But this year? I think the odds are against it. In fact, I think the odds are that only one of them will be good and that won't be until late in the year. I am all for it, I like both of them but I am skeptical that a rookie is going to play better than Butler did at RG last year so that isn't an improvement. I am skeptical that Butler will be a better RT than Walker was so that isn't going to be an improvement. I am also skeptical that Walker will be a better LT than would Peters, especially a Peters with his contract mess worked out before camp. So that is not an improvement either. Dockery sucked and so did Preston at C. I think we will improve there but it would be hard not to. The inside of the line is going from 2/3's suck and 1/3 good to 3/3's mediocre.

 

In any event, this discussion started with a guy who posted that he thought the team didn't really meaningfully address what has been a perennially carppy offense so that this year might not be such a good one. Someone responded with a list of the changes they did make as if they were self evident as major strides. I don't think they are and you do. I hope I am wrong.

Who is being an "a$" is a matter of opinion, Mickey. What I mostly took exception to was your attempt to minimize the HUGE addition to the offense that TO represents, by calling him "the biggest jerk in football." His presence affects the entire offense, for the better, not just the receiving corps. Do you agree with that, or will his "jerkiness" render him totally useless?

 

I also take exception to your characterization of Rhodes as just a "3rd string RB." Yes on the depth chart he's 3rd string. But as I said, and you again casually dismissed, he's been a starter before, for a SB-winning team no less (not "once upon a time" either; just 2 seasons ago), and was a backup on a playoff team last year. And as a result of Lynch's actions, he'll be the #2 guy to start the season, while depending on injuries (Lynch missed 3 games in 2007), he may be the #2 for more games. I think it's safe to say that he's certainly a much better option than Xavier Omon at the #3 spot, and his salary is irrelevant since the Bills are well below the cap and his addition didn't prevent them from keeping/signing anyone. As for his receiving skills, I'd rate them as at-least on-par with Lynch's, while he proved last year to be an excellent short-yardage runner, which the Bills desperately need and should be the area in which he most helps the team.

 

Another problem I had was calling Hangartner a "3rd tier FA." How do you figure he was "3rd tier" and not say, "2nd tier?" I mean, he signed within the first few days of FA. Have you seen him play?

 

Finally, WRT the OL, weren't you one of the people complaining the past few years about the Bills not drafting OL in the first few rounds of the draft? And now that they have, it's now talk about how those picks can tank? Fine. I've said over and over that at-worst, the Bills can go with the same right side as the past 2 years, insert a rookie at LG, and play Chambers or Bell and give him help, and they'll do no worse than the O-line last year, if not be much-improved. Fortunately there is still a lot of time before the season starts.

[LGB]

...What I mostly took exception to was your attempt to minimize the HUGE addition to the offense that TO represents, by calling him "the biggest jerk in football." His presence affects the entire offense, for the better, not just the receiving corps. Do you agree with that, or will his "jerkiness" render him totally useless?

 

I also take exception to your characterization of Rhodes as just a "3rd string RB." Yes on the depth chart he's 3rd string.

TO and Rhodes are stop-gap measures and are both on the downside of their careers. If you are TO and you want to sign a one year deal - do you come to Buffalo to do that? Why? So you can showcase your skills with a premier QB? Oh, maybe it is the well established and stellar OL or the fine Buffalo weather...or wait maybe it is because that is the best his agent could do.

 

Here are the Bills problems as I see it...if in fact the goal at OBD is truly to achieve a playoff position:

 

1) After 3 straight seasons of 7-9 and 6 straight seasons of 25th or lower rated god-awful offense, the core coaching staff remains the same and the ghost of Fairchild lives. Mind-maddening playing not to lose, predictable one page play book play calling - with no game-time adjustments going 0 - 6 in the AFC East - only gets you at most 7 wins a year and zero post-season appearances.

 

2) okay, we all understand that Dick Jauron, the former DB and DB coach thinks DB is an important position, but he is borderline obsessed with DBs. In order to win in the NFL (according to Marv Levy), it does take defense, but it also takes offense and special teams. The waste of time with the Peters situation, when all he wanted was pay for performance that others have been given, must have meant to DJ that he would only be able to sign 8 DBs instead of 9 if he went ahead and signed Peters at the all important LT position. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT DBs!! LT helps your run game and your QB!!

 

3) Trent Edwards. This guy has never in his career been able to enjoy the benefit of a solid and well established OL. This year should be no different with cute position switching experiments and a couple of green rookies. This guy has been hit too hard - too many times wearing a football jersey and might be just one more Pat LaFontaine head-smacking concussion from ever playing again. Screwing around with the OL again will not help Trent this year. Maybe next year, but for a guy as shell-shocked as he is, all the TOs in the world will not be able to help him if the OL does not gel pretty damn fast.

 

4) Presumably, this is a make or break year for the DJ and going out and getting a proven GM and coaching staff should have taken place this year - but will now likely take place next year, delaying the improvement of the Bills at about the same pace as slow Chinese water-board torture.

[VOR]

TO and Rhodes are stop-gap measures and are both on the downside of their careers. If you are TO and you want to sign a one year deal - do you come to Buffalo to do that? Why? So you can showcase your skills with a premier QB? Oh, maybe it is the well established and stellar OL or the fine Buffalo weather...or wait maybe it is because that is the best his agent could do.

 

Here are the Bills problems as I see it...if in fact the goal at OBD is truly to achieve a playoff position:

 

1) After 3 straight seasons of 7-9 and 6 straight seasons of 25th or lower rated god-awful offense, the core coaching staff remains the same and the ghost of Fairchild lives. Mind-maddening playing not to lose, predictable one page play book play calling - with no game-time adjustments going 0 - 6 in the AFC East - only gets you at most 7 wins a year and zero post-season appearances.

 

2) okay, we all understand that Dick Jauron, the former DB and DB coach thinks DB is an important position, but he is borderline obsessed with DBs. In order to win in the NFL (according to Marv Levy), it does take defense, but it also takes offense and special teams. The waste of time with the Peters situation, when all he wanted was pay for performance that others have been given, must have meant to DJ that he would only be able to sign 8 DBs instead of 9 if he went ahead and signed Peters at the all important LT position. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT DBs!! LT helps your run game and your QB!!

 

3) Trent Edwards. This guys has never in his career been able to enjoy the benefit of a solid and well established OL. This year should be no different with cute position switching experiments and a couple of green rookies. This guy has been hit too hard - too many times wearing a football jersey and might be just one more Pat LaFontaine head-smacking concussion from ever playing again. Screwing around with the OL again will not help Trent this year. Maybe next year, but for a guy as shell-shocked as he is, all the TOs in the world will not be able to help him if the OL does not gel pretty damn fast.

 

4) Presumably, this is a make or break year for the DJ and going out and getting a proven GM and coaching staff should have taken place this year - but will now likely take place next year, delaying the improvement of the Bills at about the same pace as slow Chinese water-boarding torture.

TO may be on the downside, but he's still a top-flight WR. His 10 TD's last year attest to that fact. I don't care why he's in Buffalo, just that he's in Buffalo. Rhodes as I said will be a backup and short-yardage guy. The Bills won't depend on him to carry the load, barring injury. Both will defintely help the Bills.

 

As for the playbook, I think it's safe to say that it will be opened-up. When you have the collection of talent the Bills do at the skill positions, especially a guy like TO who will rip you apart publicly if you play not to win, I have no worries that they'll play like they did the past few years, when they were hamstrung by having no #2 WR and poor/inexperienced QB play.

 

Peters' Goodfellas-inspired "F you, pay me" after one Pro Bowl appearance, after the Bills took a chance on him after the 2005 season and gave him a nice raise, was the height of egotism. The Bills made the best of a bad situation and made him someone else's headache. And the Bills have options on the O-line. What Trent lacks in a well-established O-line, gets made up by the receivers and RB's he has around him.

[thewildrabbit]

What really bothers me is the mentality at TBD that people forget that Jauron didn't inherit a scrub lions team that was 0-16.

 

What he stepped into was a decent team on the verge of making the playoffs. A really good coach and staff could have taken this team to the playoffs in three years. All he has done so far is torn down and rebuilt almost everything, and has had very little success in doing so.

 

This franchise won't ever succeed with Jauron as HC and Schonert as OC, period

[LGB]

Being out-scored 174-47 in three years by New England and going winless in the AFC East last year means that the Bills have to be doing everything better and faster than the other division teams or soon there will be a whole generation of fans that have not seen one playoff game in western NY.

 

So far, there has been little evidence that the current crew at OBD will be able to prevent that from happening.