Six consecutive years where you just plain suck on offense

[VOR]

Bills fans tout themselves as being the most knowledgeable in the NFL, but this comment echoed by many on this board is downright embarrassing.

Well, we'll have to see how the season plays out then. Because Peters is gone and Walker is the Bills' LT, like it or not.

[Big Daddy JC]

This is THE worst subject thread I have ever seen on this board!

 

You need to get out more... Or have you missed all of the Mike Vick threads?

[folz]

I agree that a lot will be riding on whether the OL and QB can play well this year...

 

And I have always said that Jauron's biggest weakness as a coach has been his selection of OCs.

 

But, in his defense (as far as his game plans or playing not to lose) look at the QBs he has had over

the years (Miller, JP, Trent--who even if he turns out to be good, he was a rookie and 2nd year player so

far for Jauron and young QBs make mistakes). Jauron hasn't had elite talent on his offenses with the Bears

or Bills, so maybe in that situation you have to play it safe. Would you as a coach give JP the green light

to sling away like Favre, Brady, or Manning? How about Miller? How about Trent as a rookie?

 

Part of the FO's job is to get us excited about new players and the season to come to where maybe we

(at least the homers) have overestimated our talent level and expected too much from the O. But maybe

Jauron didn't have much choice but to play it close to the vest because he knew all too well about the true

talent level of the team (especially the O-line's ability to protect the QB for enough time, no proven 2nd WR, etc.).

Just because you want to open it up, doesn't mean that you can.

 

Like it or not Jauron's our coach for this season. Let's see what he and Turk can do with some improved talent...

and if they can't do anything, play too conservatively and lose then the change will be made. But let's suck it up

and give him one more chance. The only other choice is to remain bitter.

 

 

Bills fans tout themselves as being the most knowledgeable in the NFL, but this comment echoed by many on this board is downright embarrassing.

 

Spartacus, what I think you overlook with posters like that is they are not saying Walker is equal to

or better than Peters as a player, but that Peters played way below his potential last year and that Walker

should at least play up to Peters' play of last year. Unless you think we got Jason's best last year. So saying

there won't be a drop off isn't speaking overall talent-wise, but from an improvement or drop-off from last year.

Its like when people say whoever plays OLB will be a dropoff from Crowell, but Crowell didn't play last year so

from last year to this its either a push (Ellison for Ellison) or improvement someone steps up and plays better.

[LGB]

I agree that a lot will be riding on whether the OL and QB can play well this year...

 

And I have always said that Jauron's biggest weakness as a coach has been his selection of OCs.

 

But, in his defense (as far as his game plans or playing not to lose) look at the QBs he has had over

the years (Miller, JP, Trent--who even if he turns out to be good, he was a rookie and 2nd year player so

far for Jauron and young QBs make mistakes). Jauron hasn't had elite talent on his offenses with the Bears

or Bills, so maybe in that situation you have to play it safe. Would you as a coach give JP the green light

to sling away like Favre, Brady, or Manning? How about Miller? How about Trent as a rookie?

 

Part of the FO's job is to get us excited about new players and the season to come to where maybe we

(at least the homers) have overestimated our talent level and expected too much from the O. But maybe

Jauron didn't have much choice but to play it close to the vest because he knew all too well about the true

talent level of the team (especially the O-line's ability to protect the QB for enough time, no proven 2nd WR, etc.).

Just because you want to open it up, doesn't mean that you can.

 

Like it or not Jauron's our coach for this season. Let's see what he and Turk can do with some improved talent...

and if they can't do anything, play too conservatively and lose then the change will be made. But let's suck it up

and give him one more chance. The only other choice is to remain bitter.

There will always be rookies and positions of need to fill and DJ, having the benefit of 3 drafts and FA pickups has not been able improve the team above .500 or even achieve one win over New England in his 3 years - being out-scored 174-47. Besides NE, DJ and company could not even post one win against any AFC East team last year. It is no wonder fans are disappointed.

[spartacus]

I agree that a lot will be riding on whether the OL and QB can play well this year...

 

And I have always said that Jauron's biggest weakness as a coach has been his selection of OCs.

 

But, in his defense (as far as his game plans or playing not to lose) look at the QBs he has had over

the years (Miller, JP, Trent--who even if he turns out to be good, he was a rookie and 2nd year player so

far for Jauron and young QBs make mistakes). Jauron hasn't had elite talent on his offenses with the Bears

or Bills, so maybe in that situation you have to play it safe. Would you as a coach give JP the green light

to sling away like Favre, Brady, or Manning? How about Miller? How about Trent as a rookie?

 

Part of the FO's job is to get us excited about new players and the season to come to where maybe we

(at least the homers) have overestimated our talent level and expected too much from the O. But maybe

Jauron didn't have much choice but to play it close to the vest because he knew all too well about the true

talent level of the team (especially the O-line's ability to protect the QB for enough time, no proven 2nd WR, etc.).

Just because you want to open it up, doesn't mean that you can.

 

Like it or not Jauron's our coach for this season. Let's see what he and Turk can do with some improved talent...

and if they can't do anything, play too conservatively and lose then the change will be made. But let's suck it up

and give him one more chance. The only other choice is to remain bitter.

 

 

 

 

Spartacus, what I think you overlook with posters like that is they are not saying Walker is equal to

or better than Peters as a player, but that Peters played way below his potential last year and that Walker

should at least play up to Peters' play of last year. Unless you think we got Jason's best last year. So saying

there won't be a drop off isn't speaking overall talent-wise, but from an improvement or drop-off from last year.

Its like when people say whoever plays OLB will be a dropoff from Crowell, but Crowell didn't play last year so

from last year to this its either a push (Ellison for Ellison) or improvement someone steps up and plays better.

 

 

 

this is the quote - "None of the LT's can do worse than the "Pro Bowler" who performed poorly last year."

 

As I note above, this is embarrassing. He says not only Walker but any other LT on the team can do no worse than Peters.

 

Walker at his best and with a TE and RB committed to the RDE will still not perform any better than Peters did last year.

 

Walker does not have the muscle or the quickness to perform at anyway near the level Peters did last year- even though it was down year for Peters.

 

Peters handled the RDE by himself and covered for Dockery as well. Walker at RT got help from the TE all the time.

[VOR]

this is the quote - "None of the LT's can do worse than the "Pro Bowler" who performed poorly last year."

 

As I note above, this is embarrassing. He says not only Walker but any other LT on the team can do no worse than Peters.

 

Walker at his best and with a TE and RB committed to the RDE will still not perform any better than Peters did last year.

 

Walker does not have the muscle or the quickness to perform at anyway near the level Peters did last year- even though it was down year for Peters.

 

Peters handled the RDE by himself and covered for Dockery as well. Walker at RT got help from the TE all the time.

This last sentence is far more embarrassing than my "None of the LT's can do any worse..." statement, which I admit I overstated. I'm sure Peters also worked on a cure for cancer while he was away from the team while Dockery was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.

[Flbillsfan#1]

If youare 0-16 or 7-9 whats the real difference? Nothing! Both teams weren't in the post season.

Actually there is a big difference. At 0-16 a team has a much greater chance to draft a franchise player or two. Players like Jimbo & Bruuuuce. At 7-9 you get Whitner, Maybin.

[Thurman#1]

The Bills had their best offense in a LONG time last year.

 

 

 

I loooooooooooooooove good sarcasm.

[PushthePile]

Actually there is a big difference. At 0-16 a team has a much greater chance to draft a franchise player or two. Players like Jimbo & Bruuuuce. At 7-9 you get Whitner, Maybin.

This school of thought is outdated. The bust rate for the number one pick is not that different than the bust rate for picks 10-15. If you whiff on a top 5 pick it hurts way worse. This is why the NFL is trying to fix rookie salaries. It is next to impossible to find teams that want to trade into the top 5. I'll take 7-9 all day, over 0-16. Whitner and Maybin look alot nicer to me than some of the lottery tickets we've seen drafted for a king's ransom.

[C.Biscuit97]

Yes, DJ sucks. Winning 43% of your 130 games in the NFL constitutes sucking. And when NFL teams are looking for a low cost option at HC (where people like Tony Sparano receive 3M contracts) DJ is attractive. There is absolutely no reason why he should still be leading a franchise's players onto a field. When you coach for two seasons and have high expectations in the third, yet bumble your way to 2-8 in the final 10 against one of the league's easiest schedule, there is no reason to retain the guy. But yeah, it's all QB play all the time. DJ flat out stinks.

 

For the record, prior to last season, few first round rookie QB's had ever been as far as Flacco and Ryan. Simply being a first round pick does not equate to being an offensive weapon. Roddy White is on par with Lee Evans, but Michael Jenkins isn't outstanding by any means. I'd also say that Michael Turner and Marshawn Lynch are not far apart talent wise either.

 

What I would like to know is how rookie HC's can coach rookie QB's with guys like Mike Mularkey and Cam Cameron at OC and get into the playoffs. Yet DJ, with a second year QB and a guy with 10+ years as a NFL coach and nearly the same time as a NFL QB can't do better. Please explain that to me, because I'd love to know.

 

QB play was an issue at times last year. I'd venture to say that coaching has been a problem for much longer.

 

And for the record, scoring more points than the Fins is not grounds for success. Miami beat those same Bills twice, with a rookie HC, weak armed QB, rookie HC, and Dan Henning calling the plays with no decent receiving options, a rookie LT, and little at TE.

 

Do you work for the Bills, or have some vested interest in their continued mediocrity?

 

 

No, I don't work for the Bills. However, I don't really find it really contributes anything to just spend the offseason making a 1,000 posts whining about everything Bills related. Especially when not one meaningful snap of football has been played yet. If I thought the Bills were as horrible as you do, I would find a much better activity to do than constantly post negatively about them. But that's just me.

 

Again, though you and the negative Nancies love to dismiss it, Belichick was a loser much like DJ before he lucked into Brady (even slightly worse). Players win games and we haven't had the players to win. However, I think Trent Edwards is now set up to be the most successful QB Jauron has ever had. Additionally, our defense improved 17 spots with the 4th worse pass rush in football. With Maybin, Schobel, and hopefully a beefed up Ellis, a good pass rush could bump us into top 10 territory. That plus the best STs could help this team be a playoff contender.

 

Look, we have this dicussion many times. Everything is how you look at. You see the absolutely worst and I see many positives. That's cool but I don't get the idea of trying to make other Bills feel bad because they are excited about an upcoming season. Honestly, what is your purpose for that? If we can't get excited in May, when can we get excited?

[Flbillsfan#1]

This school of thought is outdated. The bust rate for the number one pick is not that different than the bust rate for picks 10-15. If you whiff on a top 5 pick it hurts way worse. This is why the NFL is trying to fix rookie salaries. It is next to impossible to find teams that want to trade into the top 5. I'll take 7-9 all day, over 0-16. Whitner and Maybin look alot nicer to me than some of the lottery tickets we've seen drafted for a king's ransom.

No it is not outdated. If you wiff on a top 5 pick it hurts way worse.............................for NOW. That is why the NFL will have, I Guarantee you a Rookie Salary CAP in the NEAR future. I will admit the Draft is a Crapshoot.............but the potential to hit BIG is much greater at #1 than 11 or 12.

[C.Biscuit97]

No it is not outdated. If you wiff on a top 5 pick it hurts way worse.............................for NOW. That is why the NFL will have, I Guarantee you a Rookie Salary CAP in the NEAR future. I will admit the Draft is a Crapshoot.............but the potential to hit BIG is much greater at #1 than 11 or 12.

 

 

Agreed. I also think the NFL should go to a lottery system like the NBA has to prevent tanking. But for as good as Bill Polian is (and he is really good), he got to draft Bruce Smith and Peyton Manning #1 overall. That will probably help any team turn around.

[billsfan_34]

Actually there is a big difference. At 0-16 a team has a much greater chance to draft a franchise player or two. Players like Jimbo & Bruuuuce. At 7-9 you get Whitner, Maybin.

Who wants to draft in the top 5 spots anymore? Plus...the Patriots havent drafted in the top spots in years and they have found some mighty fine players. It all really boils down to the front office and ours along with the lions sucks!

[thewildrabbit]

DJ has had 3 years of drafting and bringing free agents and he inherited a team that was fresh from rebuilding from the last two head coaches. He has had his chance to turn this team around, no more excuses about the talent.

 

As to the eternal optimism at OBD, it drives me crazy that most of the posters here think that because they get few new faces on the team in draft picks and free agents that suddenly a miracle will occur and the Bills will make the playoffs.

 

You could have the lord god almighty himself as QB and the arc angels as his receivers, his son Jesus as the RB, and if there isn't a decent O line in front of them...they will fail. I think that DJ and the FO gets that fact, I think they simply don't know how to build an offensive line and get them to function properly.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Bills to win and win big, to beat the Patriots,Jets and Dolphins. I just don't see it happening this year, not with this line.

[LGB]

DJ has had 3 years of drafting and bringing free agents and he inherited a team that was fresh from rebuilding from the last two head coaches. He has had his chance to turn this team around, no more excuses about the talent.

 

As to the eternal optimism at OBD, it drives me crazy that most of the posters here think that because they get few new faces on the team in draft picks and free agents that suddenly a miracle will occur and the Bills will make the playoffs.

 

You could have the lord god almighty himself as QB and the arc angels as his receivers, his son Jesus as the RB, and if there isn't a decent O line in front of them...they will fail. I think that DJ and the FO gets that fact, I think they simply don't know how to build an offensive line and get them to function properly.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want the Bills to win and win big, to beat the Patriots,Jets and Dolphins. I just don't see it happening this year, not with this line.

Sure it might take some divine intervention to reach the playoffs this year, but the fact is, there has been no sense of urgency with this coaching staff during their tenure. You do not see the fire that is required to attack the other team and the ability to adjust the game plan on game days to effectively put your players in a position to win and in some cases even compete. Playing not to lose, playing at or below the level of your opponent - or keeping the play book to one page has not worked. That will only get you seven wins and zero post-season appearances.

[Big Daddy JC]

You could have the lord god almighty himself as QB and the arc angels as his receivers, his son Jesus as the RB, and if there isn't a decent O line in front of them...they will fail.

 

I have to disagree. You obviously haven't read their press clippings;

 

Luke 4:28-30

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. BUT HE WALKED RIGHT THROUGH THE CROWD AND WENT ON HIS WAY.

 

John 7:30

At this they tried to seize him, BUT NO ONE LAID A HAND ON HIM, BECAUSE HIS TIME HAD NOT YET COME.

 

John 8:59

At this, they picked up stones to stone him, BUT JESUS HID HIMSELF, SLIPPING AWAY FROM THE TEMPLE GROUNDS.

 

No O line metioned anywhere. If you think God doesn't have a miraculous ground game, maybe you worship a second string god. If so, you need to upgrade to the real thing.

[Fan in Chicago]

No O line metioned anywhere. If you think God doesn't have a miraculous ground game, maybe you worship a second string god. If so, you need to upgrade to the real thing.

Hilarious and admirable post !!

[Conch]

I have to disagree. You obviously haven't read their press clippings;

 

Luke 4:28-30

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. BUT HE WALKED RIGHT THROUGH THE CROWD AND WENT ON HIS WAY.

 

John 7:30

At this they tried to seize him, BUT NO ONE LAID A HAND ON HIM, BECAUSE HIS TIME HAD NOT YET COME.

 

John 8:59

At this, they picked up stones to stone him, BUT JESUS HID HIMSELF, SLIPPING AWAY FROM THE TEMPLE GROUNDS.

 

No O line metioned anywhere. If you think God doesn't have a miraculous ground game, maybe you worship a second string god. If so, you need to upgrade to the real thing.

 

Twas on a Sunday afternoon

The boys were in the yard

With Jesus playing fullback

And Moses playing guard.

 

The angels in the bandstand

Let out a mighty yell

As Jesus scored a touchdown

To beat the boys from hell.

 

"Rock 'em Sock 'em Moses block 'em.

Yea God"

[Flbillsfan#1]

Who wants to draft in the top 5 spots anymore? Plus...the Patriots havent drafted in the top spots in years and they have found some mighty fine players. It all really boils down to the front office and ours along with the lions sucks!

The Pats* thanks to their front office have had some high picks............................traded to them from other teams.

[billsfan_34]

The Pats* thanks to their front office have had some high picks............................traded to them from other teams.

Tom Brady wasnt a high pick.