Last year, 2008 was the playoffs or bust season

[zazie]

Jauron = Dom Capers, Gregggggg Williams, etc

 

Very good Defensive Coordinator

Not a good Head Coach

Not even a good coordinator. He sux all around. Man, am I a frustrated fan, stuck with DJ for another futile season.

[smuvtalker]

Not even a good coordinator. He sux all around. Man, am I a frustrated fan, stuck with DJ for another futile season.

 

You are not alone. I too, am frustrated as any with DJ. Personally, I think we need to at least get to the 10 win plateau for me to accept him coming back as the HC. Do I think that's going to happen? No. Our schedule is brutal this year, and I don't think we really did enough in the offseason(i know it's not over yet) to address our positions of need. I'm not sold on Langston Walker as the left tackle, our OLB position hasn't been addressed, tight end, and we're still weak on the D-Line(please let Maybin be what we hope he can be).

 

Let me also put it out there that I don't care if we do go 10-6, if those 6 losses are all in our division, DJ should not only be canned, but kicked dead in the nuts.

[zazie]

You are not alone. I too, am frustrated as any with DJ. Personally, I think we need to at least get to the 10 win plateau for me to accept him coming back as the HC. Do I think that's going to happen? No. Our schedule is brutal this year, and I don't think we really did enough in the offseason(i know it's not over yet) to address our positions of need. I'm not sold on Langston Walker as the left tackle, our OLB position hasn't been addressed, tight end, and we're still weak on the D-Line(please let Maybin be what we hope he can be).

 

Let me also put it out there that I don't care if we do go 10-6, if those 6 losses are all in our division, DJ should not only be canned, but kicked dead in the nuts.

the fact that we went 0-6 against the division last year and this idiot still has a job, is remarkable. Talk about failing your way up the ladder, this guy is failing his way to long term job security.

[smuvtalker]

the fact that we went 0-6 against the division last year and this idiot still has a job, is remarkable. Talk about failing your way up the ladder, this guy is failing his way to long term job security.

 

It is truly mindboggling isn't it? One winning year as a head coach? And if i'm not mistaken, that year that the bears went 13-3, didn't they lose in the first round of the playoffs?

 

I'm sick of hearing how this guy is a player's coach, the players love playing for him. Obviously that hasn't translated to wins for this guy. If DJ is let go after this season, I swear I'm all for bringing in a Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, light a fire under the player's asses type of coach.

[zazie]

It is truly mindboggling isn't it? One winning year as a head coach? And if i'm not mistaken, that year that the bears went 13-3, didn't they lose in the first round of the playoffs?

 

I'm sick of hearing how this guy is a player's coach, the players love playing for him. Obviously that hasn't translated to wins for this guy. If DJ is let go after this season, I swear I'm all for bringing in a Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, light a fire under the player's asses type of coach.

No, that would be stupid. Let's bring in another career loser to right the ship.

[Mr. WEO]

If we finish better than .500 next year, DJ will ABSOLUTELY be back in 2010. It won't matter if we make the playoffs, despite what Jim Kelly thinks.

[zazie]

If we finish better than .500 next year, DJ will ABSOLUTELY be back in 2010. It won't matter if we make the playoffs, despite what Jim Kelly thinks.

7-9 is ok even, he will survive. It is a wonder that he does not read some of these message boards and do the right thing, resign. Matt Millen redux.

[smuvtalker]

7-9 is ok even, he will survive. It is a wonder that he does not read some of these message boards and do the right thing, resign. Matt Millen redux.

 

I just can't believe that if we finish 7-9 again that Jauron will be back. No way, no how. RW can't be that pressed over money that he refuses to eat a contract of a proven loser. If the Bills finish 7-9 again, and bring back Jauron, there's no way they can count on people renewing season tickets, and continuing to spend money on a sh-- product...

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

7-9 is ok even, he will survive. It is a wonder that he does not read some of these message boards and do the right thing, resign. Matt Millen redux.

 

 

That's the way I felt last year. After the pitiful collapse, resigning would have been the honorable thing for Dick to do. So not only is he an incompetent head coach, he is morally bankrupt as well. He is however, smart enough to realize that this is the end of the road for his coaching career, so I don't blame him for clinging to this gig.

[zazie]

That's the way I felt last year. After the pitiful collapse, resigning would have been the honorable thing for Dick to do. So not only is he an incompetent head coach, he is morally bankrupt as well. He is however, smart enough to realize that this is the end of the road for his coaching career, so I don't blame him for clinging to this gig.

Yes, he should sock away all he can, no doubt about it. After this tenure with the bills, he may be banned from every nfl building.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That's the way I felt last year. After the pitiful collapse, resigning would have been the honorable thing for Dick to do. So not only is he an incompetent head coach, he is morally bankrupt as well. He is however, smart enough to realize that this is the end of the road for his coaching career, so I don't blame him for clinging to this gig.

Wow. Now I've seen everything. Dick Jauron is morally bankrupt. The one thing that nearly everyone can agree upon, that he is a very fine human being, is now being revised into moral bankruptcy. Please. And by the way if he had resigned, people here would be calling him a quitter. Last year when we were 5-1 his ESPN fan approval rating was 96%.

 

I guess Doug Flutie, Dominick Hasek, and Michael Peca know how Jauron feels.

 

FYI, in 12 seasons as Steelers coach before he finally got to the Super Bowl, Chuck Noll's record was 95-95. His postseason record was 2-4.

 

In his five seasons coaching Chicago, Jauron's players accounted for a total of 8 Pro Bowls. Four by Brian Urlacher, one each by Ted Washington, Glyn Milburn, Jerry Azumah, and Olin Kreutz. His quarterbacks were Shane Matthews, Jim Miller, rookie Cade McNown, Kordell Stewart, an ancient Chris Chandler, and a rookie named Rex Grossman.

 

Look, I'm not saying he's the greatest coach in the world. But the fact remains that he had zero talent in Chicago and Detroit and very little talent in Buffalo. And as far as his excellence as a human being, well that's been documented over and over. The testimonials by former colleagues and players is overwhelming in that regard.

[BillsVet]

FYI, in 12 seasons as Steelers coach before he finally got to the Super Bowl, Chuck Noll's record was 95-95. His postseason record was 2-4.

 

In his five seasons coaching Chicago, Jauron's players accounted for a total of 8 Pro Bowls. Four by Brian Urlacher, one each by Ted Washington, Glyn Milburn, Jerry Azumah, and Olin Kreutz. His quarterbacks were Shane Matthews, Jim Miller, rookie Cade McNown, Kordell Stewart, an ancient Chris Chandler, and a rookie named Rex Grossman.

 

How many Pro Bowlers did Belichick have in 2001 when he won a SB with a 2nd year 6th round QB? Good coaching can make an average team good. In comparison, a bad HC will have a negative team-wide effect. DJ's lack of innovative and effective gameplans helped Buffalo lose 8 of their last 10. Not all of those losses were on the players.

 

Also, FYI, Chuck Noll's record before the 74 season when PIT won the SB was 33-37. He had two 10 win seasons as well.

 

Check your stats before posting false information.

Noll Coaching record

[C.Biscuit97]

How many Pro Bowlers did Belichick have in 2001 when he won a SB with a 2nd year 6th round QB? Good coaching can make an average team good. In comparison, a bad HC will have a negative team-wide effect. DJ's lack of innovative and effective gameplans helped Buffalo lose 8 of their last 10. Not all of those losses were on the players.

 

Also, FYI, Chuck Noll's record before the 74 season when PIT won the SB was 33-37. He had two 10 win seasons as well.

 

Check your stats before posting false information.

Noll Coaching record

 

 

Really??? Come on, that is flat out wrong. Did Jauron try to stretch the ball out for a 1st down against MIA and have teh ball taken anyway? Jauron was the reason out "all pro" LT got beaten like a rented mule to give up a safety? I could be wrong but I don't think Jauron missed a 47 yard FG for a win against CLE after teh opposing kicker just nailed a 54 yarder? How is it Jauron's fault that Trent got hurt and our veteran, former starting QB essentially played himself out of the NFL in 3 games with some of the worst QBing ever?

 

And I love the you use Belicihick as your example. Because BB has a slightly worse record than Jauron before he stumbled into a HOF QB. He was no genius before Brady. HOF QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro bowlers

[Taro T]

Really??? Come on, that is flat out wrong. Did Jauron try to stretch the ball out for a 1st down against MIA and have teh ball taken anyway? Jauron was the reason out "all pro" LT got beaten like a rented mule to give up a safety? I could be wrong but I don't think Jauron missed a 47 yard FG for a win against CLE after teh opposing kicker just nailed a 54 yarder? How is it Jauron's fault that Trent got hurt and our veteran, former starting QB essentially played himself out of the NFL in 3 games with some of the worst QBing ever?

 

And I love the you use Belicihick as your example. Because BB has a slightly worse record than Jauron before he stumbled into a HOF QB. He was no genius before Brady. HOF QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pro bowlers

You're using the 47 yarder in defense of Jauron?

 

There was absolutely no reason for them not to try to gain more yardage and it was extremely poor coaching to settle for a 47 yard try into the wind at that point. That kick was not going to be a "gimme" at that distance and the Bills were moving the ball well. He should have tried to get closer.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

How many Pro Bowlers did Belichick have in 2001 when he won a SB with a 2nd year 6th round QB? Good coaching can make an average team good. In comparison, a bad HC will have a negative team-wide effect. DJ's lack of innovative and effective gameplans helped Buffalo lose 8 of their last 10. Not all of those losses were on the players.

 

Also, FYI, Chuck Noll's record before the 74 season when PIT won the SB was 33-37. He had two 10 win seasons as well.

 

Check your stats before posting false information.

Noll Coaching record

I used profootball reference too...just read from the bottom up rather than the top down. My mistake. BTW IMO there is a difference between false and erroneous information. False implies dishonesty. I guess my 1500+ posts of largely fair, honest, accurate, balanced and courteous thoughts is not enough to make me immune to allegations of...whatever. That's alright. I expect very little here. It's a losing proposition to hope that you have a body of work which might give you some benefit of the doubt.

 

Yes, Knoll's record was mediocre as was Belichick's before they both figured it out. Too bad the Kraft and Rooney family have done such a better job than Ralph at hiring people.

 

As I've always argued, if you want to criticize the Bills' performance, it all starts at the top. Criticizing Jauron is like shooting the messenger. In his hand is the letter from Ralph which says "I'm a crappy owner."

 

As I stated in my original post, Jauron's not the greatest coach in the world. But he's had little to work with. Moreover, he didn't hire himself.

 

In answer to your question about Pro Bowlers on the 2001 Patriots, the answer would be 4. Brady made the Pro Bowl that year, also Troy Brown, Ty Law, and Lawyer Milloy.

 

I usually don't respond to these repeating closed-loop debates but felt compelled to when the accusation was made (not by you) that "Dick Jauron is morally bankrupt." That should have been a hint to go clean out the garage instead.

[San-O]

You're using the 47 yarder in defense of Jauron?

 

There was absolutely no reason for them not to try to gain more yardage and it was extremely poor coaching to settle for a 47 yard try into the wind at that point. That kick was not going to be a "gimme" at that distance and the Bills were moving the ball well. He should have tried to get closer.

 

 

I forgot about that game. I great example of bad game management, decision making and playing not to lose.

[zazie]

I forgot about that game. I great example of bad game management, decision making and playing not to lose.

That was so awful. How the hell did they not run it up the middle or short pass, its just beyond me. Prime example of horrible decision making and coaching. Wow DJ is spectacularly bad.

[Orton's Arm]

Jauron = Dom Capers, Gregggggg Williams, etc

 

Very good Defensive Coordinator

Not a good Head Coach

It's my understanding that, back when he was a defensive coordinator, his defenses were fairly run of the mill. That doesn't necessarily make him a slightly below average coordinator. Perhaps he had really bad defensive talent, and coached that lack of talent into overachieving--but still somewhat average or below average--defenses.

[Tcali]

How much of what goes on behind the scenes at TBD are you in the loop on?

 

Nothing? Me too. In fact, that's true of all of us. So, let's just deal with the fact that a guy who is a lot more in the loop than we are, Mr. Wilson, thinks that he deserves another chance.

 

And as for the crazy, wacky idea that not having good enough players might somehow possibly affect a coach's performance ... what was Belichick's record as a head coach in Cleveland with not very good players? And what is it in New England with very good players, including Tom Brady? Gee, what a crazy idea.

While you make good points..I believe that Jauron has still shown mediocrity in his coaching ability.Of course we do not have great talent..but esp in 08 his mindnumbing gametime decision making cost us a playoff spot in a year where we had a laughable once in a decade easy schedule.

Of course..even Vince lombardi couldnt have done much more than a wildcard drubbing with that group. And the 7-9 season got us a better draft pick..and kept most people realistic about this teams talent level.

What concerns most I think--is that Jauron will keep us mediocre even after our talent level has been raised.

[Thurman#1]

This is the classic argument whenever anyone questions the direction of the team and retention of DJ. Merely insinuate that because a poster doesn't have confirmed insider information that their opinion is worthless. It's the easiest means of argument suppression, and utilized anytime a fan who demands more than mediocrity from a DJ team makes a post .

 

The casual uniformed fans continue to ignore what winning teams are doing. Most franchises, if not successful, are trying to be so. Buffalo rides so close to the rail of mediocrity year after year without ever being horrible or good. No team in the NFL can state they're close to this but the Bills.

 

In the SB era, no NFL HC has consistently been as mediocre, nor given as many chances to succeed than Dick Jauron. Check the winning percentage over his 8 year career and compare it to other coaches with 130+ games coached.

 

 

 

Here's my post:

 

"How much of what goes on behind the scenes at TBD are you in the loop on?

 

"Nothing? Me too. In fact, that's true of all of us. So, let's just deal with the fact that a guy who is a lot more in the loop than we are, Mr. Wilson, thinks that he deserves another chance.

 

"And as for the crazy, wacky idea that not having good enough players might somehow possibly affect a coach's performance ... what was Belichick's record as a head coach in Cleveland with not very good players? And what is it in New England with very good players, including Tom Brady? Gee, what a crazy idea."

 

 

Now, I'll just sit here and wait a minute or two while you quickly point out the moment where I said that the poster's "opinion is worthless." (Your words.) Still waiting. Still waiting. Still waiting. Still waiting. Gee, you can't find it? I wonder why you paraphrased me so poorly, then.

 

What I am "insinuating," as you so colorfully put it, is that the decision has been made, and that the continual pissing and moaning about it serves no freaking purpose whatsoever. Get it?

 

 

 

BILLSVET said "In the SB era, no NFL HC has consistently been as mediocre, nor given as many chances to succeed than Dick Jauron. "

 

OK, FACT CHECK:

 

Jauron = 57-76.

 

John McKay = 44-88-1 and took a team to the NFC championship game when he had some talent

 

Bart Starr = 52-76-3

 

Marion Campbell 34-80-1

 

Ray Perkins 42-75.

 

And this is with only about two minutes of research. I (and anyone with half a brain) could find many more who fit the category you said didn't exist.

 

 

In other words, you are simply and unequivocally wrong. A lot of the simple people like to check the facts before making wild generalizations. But not a sophisticated guy like you. I really respect the fact that you don't bother holding yourself to high standards like that. It's clearly too ticky-tack a thing for you to spend time on. Nice one.

 

And to quote you yourself "the classic argument whenever anyone questions" someone being totally wrong with the facts is to simply switch the grounds of the argument. Like saying "Oh, so you want Marion Campbell to be your head coach?" So let me anticipate this nonsensical riposte and tell you that you said something, and I proved that you are wrong. This has nothing to do with who I want as coach. You are simply factually wrong. And the fact that McKay, when he actually did have talent, managed to go very far, proves that even one of those "mediocre" coaches can go far in the right circumstances.

 

But here is the best argument. What coach am I referring to? In the four years between 1986 and 1989, he went 32 and 33, an extremely mediocre record. Who is he? A guy named Don Shula. Even spectacular coaches can have long records of low achievement when they don't have the horses. And by the way, who was his QB during this streak? A guy named Marino.

 

The reason people often say that a coach's level of achievement is greatly affected by the level of talent on the team is that ... well ... that a coach's level of achievement is greatly affected by the level of talent on the team.