billybob Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Hardy wasn't considered raw until he started to disappoint at OTAs. That was when we started to hear about how raw he was. He still has a chance to be good. Only people without patience (and therefore with judgment problems) have declared him a bust. But he has disappointed, and it's impossible to be sure what he will become. That might be when you heard how raw he was, the scouting reports I saw before the draft said basically -doesn't have great speed, needs to run better routes, needs to get stronger, needs to become more mature in attitude- but to be fair if I was to rank who I thought might do well their first year D Jackson would have been down the list and E Royal wouldn't have been on the list- so no crystal ball have I.
zazie Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 That might be when you heard how raw he was, the scouting reports I saw before the draft said basically -doesn't have great speed, needs to run better routes, needs to get stronger, needs to become more mature in attitude- but to be fair if I was to rank who I thought might do well their first year D Jackson would have been down the list and E Royal wouldn't have been on the list- so no crystal ball have I. We will find out about Hardy in 2010. My prediction: we IR Hardy and keep Roscoe in 2009.
VJ91 Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 First of all you are all crazy calling him a bust after last year poor perfomance by the entire team. Please tell me what he needs to do this year to lose the bust term. Lets be real now. I dont want to hear 60 rec and 10 TDS because we know that wont happend with the arrival of TO Lets hear it. Number one, he needs to complete his rehab from surgery. Number two, learn how to run his patterns and read the defensive backs the way his playbook demands. Finally, become the red zone threat he was drafted for in the first place. He in certainly not a bust, and even if he doesn't get this all accomplished until the 2010 season, he will still be worth the draft choice.
PushthePile Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Hmm, someone with actual statistical proof to make a point. I like this! Statistical evidence of what? Sure those other wide receivers started slow and developed into great players but what does this mean for Hardy? Do we need to analyze the stats of all the guys that didn't develop?
Chandler#81 Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 To the OP: Play considerably better than he did before his injury. He should start by not dropping so many passes. Catch the balls that are thrown to him Fight for balls that are thrown to him. Run less like Frankenstein. Ask me again when he knows how to run an NFL route. To PREVENT being labeled as a bust in the FUTURE, he needs to establish himself as a red zone threat - that is reason #1 why he was drafted. can;t tell if he can run an NFL route since he can not get off the line of scrimmage or identify a blitz or any other skill needed to be a WR but he is tall so he must be good first thing he needs to do is run more like a WR then a TE More aggressiveness in going after the ball.He looked like a limpwrist last year. These are just wallers comments from page one of your thread. I don't have a clear cut definition of 'BUST', but I think this is pretty close.. I don't have faith in his ability to completely changehis game to authenticate his high draft position. IMO, references to Moulds and other WR's who weren't game breakers in their rookie season, don't apply here as they at least possessed the skills many here believe aren't even in Hardy's repertoire. I think his shining play last year @ Jax was more luck in his foot position, than planned effort.
papazoid Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 first, they convert him to tight end......from there it's only a short ride to left tackle.....lol
The_Philster Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Statistical evidence of what? Sure those other wide receivers started slow and developed into great players but what does this mean for Hardy? Do we need to analyze the stats of all the guys that didn't develop? no one is saying that those stats are proof that he will develop...they're just proof that he could develop because those players all did with similar stats...don't try accusing people of saying things they didn't say...dishonesty is a disgusting character trait
manbeast Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Catch the balls that are thrown to him TO doesn't so he must be a bust too.
manbeast Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/majest...onal-poster.jpg Your are an idiot and no you don't. Brett Favre was a bust right.
manbeast Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 first, they convert him to tight end......from there it's only a short ride to left tackle.....lol What about CB.
Deadstroke Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Play considerably better than he did before his injury. He should start by not dropping so many passes. I'm not ready to write him off as a bust, but he needs to show improvement when he gets back on the field. He's officially "credited" with 2 drops, FISH!!!
Billy in 4C Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 To the OP: Play considerably better than he did before his injury. He should start by not dropping so many passes. Catch the balls that are thrown to him Fight for balls that are thrown to him. Run less like Frankenstein. Ask me again when he knows how to run an NFL route. To PREVENT being labeled as a bust in the FUTURE, he needs to establish himself as a red zone threat - that is reason #1 why he was drafted. can;t tell if he can run an NFL route since he can not get off the line of scrimmage or identify a blitz or any other skill needed to be a WR but he is tall so he must be good first thing he needs to do is run more like a WR then a TE More aggressiveness in going after the ball.He looked like a limpwrist last year. These are just wallers comments from page one of your thread. I don't have a clear cut definition of 'BUST', but I think this is pretty close.. I don't have faith in his ability to completely changehis game to authenticate his high draft position. IMO, references to Moulds and other WR's who weren't game breakers in their rookie season, don't apply here as they at least possessed the skills many here believe aren't even in Hardy's repertoire. I think his shining play last year @ Jax was more luck in his foot position, than planned effort. Add one more... we drafted him because he was big and could box out like a center/power forward in basketball (his favorite sport). However, every time we tossed the ball to him one-on-one with a 5' 9" corner, he couldn't get position to use his height to his advantage. He is extremely raw and does not allow his size to be a strength - his size seems to impair his coordination. For Hardy, that is step #1.
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Your are an idiot and no you don't.Brett Favre was a bust right. The madcap hurling of the red herring is priceless. Confusing the bloodhounds indeed. Here you go. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pun
BuffaloBill Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 There is no data to support an outcome either way. Too early to know which way this will come out. With that said my spculation is that he goes bust and Johnson steps up big. If Hardy does not get on the field in 3 and 4 receiver sets then his development will be stunted.
PushthePile Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 no one is saying that those stats are proof that he will develop...they're just proof that he could develop because those players all did with similar stats...don't try accusing people of saying things they didn't say...dishonesty is a disgusting character trait Hey Philly, the poster who I clearly responded to actually said statistical proof. What do you think he was referring to? I could show you stats that might suggest he will be a terrible wide out. So what? What is the reason for the weird dishonesty comment at the end?
PushthePile Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 He's officially "credited" with 2 drops, FISH!!! Hardy had trouble even getting a fingernail on the ball. I wish his problem was only the dropsies.
The_Philster Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Hey Philly, the poster who I clearly responded to actually said statistical proof. What do you think he was referring to? I could show you stats that might suggest he will be a terrible wide out. So what? What is the reason for the weird dishonesty comment at the end? The point he was making (which anyone with any common sense would plainly see)was that those other players struggled early and turned into great players....just like Hardy COULD do. No one is suggesting anything definitive except for the people writing him off. There are no stats or anything that suggest that a player will or will not succeed..only some that cite examples of other players who have or haven't succeeded
Dwight Drane Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 OK kids......for everyone that thinks anybody who feels that Hardy will not turn out to be a superstar, quality starter, or even a mediocre 10yr receiver, is a jackpot.....and for those that love pulling up Eric Moulds' name when showing the merits of waiting for a Wide Receiver to develop.....here are some stats. These are the WR's drafted by the Buffalo Bills over the past 20 years: Player................Round.........Rookie Stats............Best Year of Career Stats James Hardy .........2.............. 8-87-2.............................. ????? Eric Moulds ...........1............. 20-279-2.................... 100-1292-10 Lee Evans ............1.............. 48-843-9..................... 82-1292-8 Peerless Price .......2............. 31-393-3..................... 94-1252-9 Josh Reed ............2............. 37-509-2..................... 56-597-1 Don Beebe........... 3............. 17-317-2..................... 39-699-4 Russell Copeland.. 4............. 13-242-0..................... 42-646-1 Justin Armour....... 4............. 26-300-3..................... 37-538-4 Roscoe Parrish..... 2............. 15-148-1..................... 35-352-1 Reggie Germany.. 7............. 12-203-0..................... 12-203-0 Steve Johnson..... 7............. 10-102-2........................ ?????? And here are the rest...........all who combined for under 100 NFL catches Bucky Brooks Round 2 Sam Aiken 4 Avion Black 4 Kevin Knox 6 Fred Coleman 6 Millard Hamilton 6 Freddie Smith 7 Willie Harris 7 Kamil Loud 7 Drew Haddad 7 Brad Lamb 8 Chris Walsh 9 Barry Rose 10 Al Edwards 11 Now......I don't know what anyone else sees....but I see a list where anyone that was capable of cracking a lineup for any period of time contributed at least twice the stats in their rookie year than those of Hardy. Hardy played 14 games and started 3. We see names outplaying him the likes of.....Justin Armour, Reggie Germany, and Russel Copeland. We see career #3 talent such as Don Beebe, and Josh Reed....the guy supposedly so bad that Hardy was going to take his place in a matter of a few games....CLEARLY outplaying Hardy their first year. Now....when you look at career numbers, even the guys that had very good output their rookie season, were only able to moderately outpace that production during their best year as a pro, minus Moulds and Price. On that entire list, the only 2 players you could get a majority here to agree on as quality #1 NFL receivers are Moulds and Evans. The majority never developed into ANYTHING, let alone a starting WR in the NFL. Who do you see when you look at this list, then look at James Hardy? Do you see Eric Moulds? Or do you see Russell Copeland, Justin Armour, Roscoe Parrish, Reggie Germany? Or do you see Bucky Brooks?
VOR Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 OK kids......for everyone that thinks anybody who feels that Hardy will not turn out to be a superstar, quality starter, or even a mediocre 10yr receiver, is a jackpot.....and for those that love pulling up Eric Moulds' name when showing the merits of waiting for a Wide Receiver to develop.....here are some stats. These are the WR's drafted by the Buffalo Bills over the past 20 years: Player................Round.........Rookie Stats............Best Year of Career Stats James Hardy .........2.............. 8-87-2.............................. ????? Eric Moulds ...........1............. 20-279-2.................... 100-1292-10 Lee Evans ............1.............. 48-843-9..................... 82-1292-8 Peerless Price .......2............. 31-393-3..................... 94-1252-9 Josh Reed ............2............. 37-509-2..................... 56-597-1 Don Beebe........... 3............. 17-317-2..................... 39-699-4 Roscoe Parrish..... 2............. 15-148-1..................... 35-352-1 Bucky Brooks Round 2 Now......I don't know what anyone else sees....but I see a list where anyone that was capable of cracking a lineup for any period of time contributed at least twice the stats in their rookie year than those of Hardy. Hardy played 14 games and started 3. We see names outplaying him the likes of.....Justin Armour, Reggie Germany, and Russel Copeland. We see career #3 talent such as Don Beebe, and Josh Reed....the guy supposedly so bad that Hardy was going to take his place in a matter of a few games....CLEARLY outplaying Hardy their first year. Now....when you look at career numbers, even the guys that had very good output their rookie season, were only able to moderately outpace that production during their best year as a pro, minus Moulds and Price. On that entire list, the only 2 players you could get a majority here to agree on as quality #1 NFL receivers are Moulds and Evans. The majority never developed into ANYTHING, let alone a starting WR in the NFL. Who do you see when you look at this list, then look at James Hardy? Do you see Eric Moulds? Or do you see Russell Copeland, Justin Armour, Roscoe Parrish, Reggie Germany? Or do you see Bucky Brooks? I cut-out every player drafted after the 2nd round, since Hardy was a 2nd rounder. I see Moulds and Evans as #1's, Price as a #2, and Reed and Beebe as #3. Bucky Brooks was a total washout and Parrish has been a great punt returner. Hardly an indictment of the Bills' ability to pick WR's early in the draft. And Hardy wasn't drafted to be a #1 WR.
Dwight Drane Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 And Hardy wasn't drafted to be a #1 WR. Looks like he was drafted to be Butch Rolle
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