If Big Gov't Works Why Is California Cutting Spending?

[StupidNation]

I'm just really curious because for the life of me I cannot see how all the fans of socialism, who see more government as a solution, cannot see that the states that are currently more in tune with socialism are failing faster. Strangely enough what is their solution? Cut the budget, spend less, and let the private sector bring money back to the state.

 

How could this not be obvious that the states with the biggest budgets per capita are the same states failing?

 

Honestly, I would be open to reading how big gov't works in a big liberal utopia. I just cannot see how it survives.

[swede316]

And you forgot...Forcing unions to take a paycut. Even the state union realized they were rats on a sinking ship!.

[swede316]

The silence from bzrul, conner, and the rest is deafening isn't it?

[StupidNation]

It's funny how big gov't on both parties now have to re-discover smaller gov't to survive. Why is it only the fed that is getting bigger? With unemployment rising with a surplus, companies that have to liquidate bad debt, where did the stimulus from either last great leader or this leader really do anything other than help destroy confidence in the dollar.

 

Yes Swede, I found it funny that the unions have to take a pay-cut. What a shock...

[ExiledInIllinois]

Last time I looked, there MAY be 49 other states that DON'T play by the same rules. Not that it is bad. It is just that the entity that deviates or defects from the norm FIRST, usually gets the biggest prize. As long as we keeping pitting ourselves against each other, IMO the problems will still exist.

 

And no, what are the odds of getting everybody on the "same page." You are asking the impossible.

[/dev/null]

Last time I looked, there MAY be 49 other states that DON'T play by the same rules.

 

So if California and these other 49 states don't play by the rules, does that mean Obama's other states 7 do?

[drnykterstein]

"Big Gov't" is a republican fear mongering catch phase intended to scare people away from voting for democrats. it's not a real concept it's not a real thing. it's a republican talking point catch phrase and nothing more.

 

so challenging people to defend a non-existent concept does not really count as intellectual conversation.

[Gene Frenkle]

So if California and these other 49 states don't play by the rules, does that mean Obama's other states 7 do?

You mean other 7 states, right? It sucks when someone misspeaks and gets called out on it over and over again!

 

(I was so going to ignore this thread, but that was a softball that I couldn't resist.)

[Chef Jim]

"Big Gov't" is a republican fear mongering catch phase intended to scare people away from voting for democrats. it's not a real concept it's not a real thing. it's a republican talking point catch phrase and nothing more.

 

so challenging people to defend a non-existent concept does not really count as intellectual conversation.

 

So you're saying government has not actually become more intrusive over your lifetime? Ok, I'll buy that. Oh and don't forget to buckle up when you get in your car.

[Gene Frenkle]

So you're saying government has not actually become more intrusive over your lifetime? Ok, I'll buy that. Oh and don't forget to buckle up when you get in your car.

Driving is not a right, but rather a privilege. You're forced to wear your seatbelt on an airplane too, but nobody ever complains about that one. Frankly, if you're too dumb to understand the statistics behind seatbelts, cigarettes and being a fat and lazy P.O.S., maybe you DO need someone to hold your hand and wipe your arse for you.

 

I'm more concerned about my rights that were compromised with the passing of the Patriot Act.

[drnykterstein]

So you're saying government has not actually become more intrusive over your lifetime? Ok, I'll buy that. Oh and don't forget to buckle up when you get in your car.

 

Either way that is not the point. The point is that everyone wants the government smaller. Republicans do not have a monopoly on wanting the government out of our lives. Everyone wants the government to be involved in our daily lives as little as possible. Unfortunately in the real world we need a lot of public services that only the gov't can provide.

 

And yeah I know, I know, when Obama says he wants to shrink the gov't you think he's lying. He's not. But you don't need t o say it, I'm well aware that you don't believe him. There is no need to re-hash that argument, we'll never agree.

 

But perhaps the NSA wiretapping and all-around increased civilian surveillance over recent years was something the dems implemented?

[StupidNation]

Either way that is not the point. The point is that everyone wants the government smaller. Republicans do not have a monopoly on wanting the government out of our lives. Everyone wants the government to be involved in our daily lives as little as possible. Unfortunately in the real world we need a lot of public services that only the gov't can provide.

 

And yeah I know, I know, when Obama says he wants to shrink the gov't you think he's lying. He's not. But you don't need t o say it, I'm well aware that you don't believe him. There is no need to re-hash that argument, we'll never agree.

 

But perhaps the NSA wiretapping and all-around increased civilian surveillance over recent years was something the dems implemented?

 

Everyone wants smaller gov't? Unions, large corporations that use the gov't, social service recipients, gov't employees?

 

Oh, and anyone who says they want smaller gov't while simultaneously increasing it isn't serious, and anyone who believes such a clown is blind to reality.

 

And the idea of big gov't is not a fake thing. It might be used a GOP talking point, but that does not make it not real. Look at spending, look at civil liberties eroded, and tell me this make believe thing I'm mentioning doesn't exist.

[drnykterstein]

Oh, and anyone who says they want smaller gov't while simultaneously increasing it isn't serious, and anyone who believes such a clown is blind to reality.

 

Right right. I've said this a million times, and I know no one here believes it, but I'll say it again.. "The stimulus was a one time investment in order to fix the economy". Obama has said that, his staff has said that, I've said that, and economists have said that. Also, 90% of this board has said they think that statement is a lie. I know. This is old news that we'll never get past.

 

And the idea of big gov't is not a fake thing. It might be used a GOP talking point, but that does not make it not real. Look at spending, look at civil liberties eroded, and tell me this make believe thing I'm mentioning doesn't exist.

 

Right, obviously there are a few exceptions to every rule. People in power, and people who advantage from larger government. Those people are a vast minority. Either way this is all a far cry from your original post that accuses the democrat party of loving socialism and big gov't. That is just a completely false statement and a republican marketing ploy. Nothing more.

[StupidNation]

Right right. I've said this a million times, and I know no one here believes it, but I'll say it again.. "The stimulus was a one time investment in order to fix the economy". Obama has said that, his staff has said that, I've said that, and economists have said that. Also, 90% of this board has said they think that statement is a lie. I know. This is old news that we'll never get past.

 

The same economists who said it would fix things were the same ones who predicted things were fine before they went upside down. Someone we both like, Peter Schiff, was an is one of the few people who called things the first time and has called this idea insane. You cannot fix overspending with overspending.

 

 

Right, obviously there are a few exceptions to every rule. People in power, and people who advantage from larger government. Those people are a vast minority. Either way this is all a far cry from your original post that accuses the democrat party of loving socialism and big gov't. That is just a completely false statement and a republican marketing ploy. Nothing more.

 

When did I say the democrat party? I consider most of the GOP liberal man. They too were big spending, liberty destroying mavens of Hell. I will say with the Dems now increasing the power against civil liberties that they once decried they lose that title of pretending to stand for liberties and your defense of that party baffles me.

 

You still think when people say "liberal" it means D, when it can mean R. Liberality is actually virtuous, but both R and D's versions of it are horrible. You are still missing the point where big gov't always fails and cannot sustain itself. That's why the stimulus will never work. NEVER! You cannot make the non-producing sector the focus to produce income. It's impossible. The most you do is inflate the currency and destroy the savings of people who believed in production and savings.

[Wacka]

Either way that is not the point. The point is that everyone wants the government smaller. Republicans do not have a monopoly on wanting the government out of our lives. Everyone wants the government to be involved in our daily lives as little as possible. Unfortunately in the real world we need a lot of public services that only the gov't can provide.

 

And yeah I know, I know, when Obama says he wants to shrink the gov't you think he's lying. He's not. But you don't need t o say it, I'm well aware that you don't believe him. There is no need to re-hash that argument, we'll never agree.

 

But perhaps the NSA wiretapping and all-around increased civilian surveillance over recent years was something the dems implemented?

 

 

Where did you get that weed you're smoking?

[Typical TBD Guy]

Driving is not a right, but rather a privilege. You're forced to wear your seatbelt on an airplane too, but nobody ever complains about that one. Frankly, if you're too dumb to understand the statistics behind seatbelts, cigarettes and being a fat and lazy P.O.S., maybe you DO need someone to hold your hand and wipe your arse for you.

 

I'm more concerned about my rights that were compromised with the passing of the Patriot Act.

 

Translation: I'm only concerned about the civil liberties that I perceive as directly affecting me; the rest of you can !@#$ off.

 

Alternate Translation: I'm only concerned about the civil liberties Republicans take away; if the Democrats take any away, then I'm sure they must have had a good reason for doing so.

[drnykterstein]

I am curious what would have happened if we just let the banks and car makers go bankrupt. Would have been interesting to see. Guess we'll never know.

[Alaska Darin]

"Big Gov't" is a republican fear mongering catch phase intended to scare people away from voting for democrats. it's not a real concept it's not a real thing. it's a republican talking point catch phrase and nothing more.

 

so challenging people to defend a non-existent concept does not really count as intellectual conversation.

[finknottle]

I am curious what would have happened if we just let the banks and car makers go bankrupt. Would have been interesting to see. Guess we'll never know.

 

If the smug media pundit soundbites in the debate on torture are any guide, you will have to remember that you can't prove that the economy wouldn't have been alright if we did nothing or - even better - provided stressed companies with counseling instead.

[Magox]

Either way that is not the point. The point is that everyone wants the government smaller. Republicans do not have a monopoly on wanting the government out of our lives. Everyone wants the government to be involved in our daily lives as little as possible. Unfortunately in the real world we need a lot of public services that only the gov't can provide.

 

And yeah I know, I know, when Obama says he wants to shrink the gov't you think he's lying. He's not. But you don't need t o say it, I'm well aware that you don't believe him. There is no need to re-hash that argument, we'll never agree.

 

But perhaps the NSA wiretapping and all-around increased civilian surveillance over recent years was something the dems implemented?

Lets see here

 

Part ownership of largest banks in US: check

Part ownership of largest insurer in US: check

Dictating how US auto companies should be run: check

Dictating how home mortgage underwriting should be conducted: check

Using your taxpayer money to finance purchases and assume the majority of risk of banking "toxic assets" : check

Future Nationalization of healthcare: check

Demonizing investors that don't want to participate under the governments conditions in their programs: check

 

 

I guess you're right, this is what has transpired in the last 4 months, no reason to think that he wants big government