Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 So the logical assumption is to invent a magical being in the absence of any tangible proof of the existence of said magical being? I believe we are hard wired to believe in God. Denying it, is what takes some imagination.
Gene Frenkle Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 I believe we are hard wired to believe in God. Denying it, is what takes some imagination. I agree that we are hard wired to believe in God, but there is a strictly evolutionary explanation for it.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 So conseratives are the only ones that criticize the other side? Liberals on the other hand always stick to their point(s) and never use verbal abuse of others' views to their advantage? Are you seriously trying to make this a legitimate point? Or are you just doing everything you can to try to justify your own views? I accused him and his buddies DC TOM and Chef Jim. Did I say that only the people on the right were at fault? No I didn't. Your use of the label "Liberals" proves what? You hold a bias towards Conservatives?
finknottle Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 I believe we are hard wired to believe in God. Denying it, is what takes some imagination. No, we are hard-wired to seek out and grab onto an explanation for things. Having an explanation, no matter how arbitrary or flawed, encourages responses in unfamiliar situations where doing nothing may be harmfull ("Run! The Mountain-God has a stomach ache and is Angry!"). Some responses may be worse than doing nothing ("Let us save our tribe by throwing the virgins into the volcano!") but natural selection takes care of many of those over the long haul. That's why 'rule-of-thumb' religious lore tends to be correct - the tribe whose commandments began 'Kill Thy Neighbor' didn't last very long. Creating a mythology in our heads for how the universe works allows us to better anticipate and react, and encourages decisive action. Decisive action in the face of the unknown ("I've never before seen the food in this new valley, but dammit I'm hungry") can be advantagous at the species level - it can be a sort of insurance policy. With elements of a group reacting decisively to a crisis in various (perhaps arbitrary) ways, for most of the elements it will end badly. But it will end well for those whose decisive action turned out randomly to be right. In contrast, the survival of groups predisposed against decisive action are much more all-or-nothing. So if natural selection likes decisive action within a group, it doesn't care much about the source, be it charisma, religion, or science. All that matters are the outcomes. So why is religion so prevalant? It is easy to grab hold of - you don't have to think much, just follow the priest - and more immediately practical. The guy who say's "Run! The Mountain-God is Angry" gets his people out, the guy who say's "Wait a minute, the science is still inconclusive" does not. If the Mountain-God really is Angry, one group survives to spread their ways and the other does not.
Gene Frenkle Posted May 20, 2009 Posted May 20, 2009 No, we are hard-wired to seek out and grab onto an explanation for things. Having an explanation, no matter how arbitrary or flawed, encourages responses in unfamiliar situations where doing nothing may be harmfull ("Run! The Mountain-God has a stomach ache and is Angry!"). Some responses may be worse than doing nothing ("Let us save our tribe by throwing the virgins into the volcano!") but natural selection takes care of many of those over the long haul. That's why 'rule-of-thumb' religious lore tends to be correct - the tribe whose commandments began 'Kill Thy Neighbor' didn't last very long. Creating a mythology in our heads for how the universe works allows us to better anticipate and react, and encourages decisive action. Decisive action in the face of the unknown ("I've never before seen the food in this new valley, but dammit I'm hungry") can be advantagous at the species level - it can be a sort of insurance policy. With elements of a group reacting decisively to a crisis in various (perhaps arbitrary) ways, for most of the elements it will end badly. But it will end well for those whose decisive action turned out randomly to be right. In contrast, the survival of groups predisposed against decisive action are much more all-or-nothing. So if natural selection likes decisive action within a group, it doesn't care much about the source, be it charisma, religion, or science. All that matters are the outcomes. So why is religion so prevalant? It is easy to grab hold of - you don't have to think much, just follow the priest - and more immediately practical. The guy who say's "Run! The Mountain-God is Angry" gets his people out, the guy who say's "Wait a minute, the science is still inconclusive" does not. If the Mountain-God really is Angry, one group survives to spread their ways and the other does not. Awesome.
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 No, we are hard-wired to seek out and grab onto an explanation for things. Having an explanation, no matter how arbitrary or flawed, encourages responses in unfamiliar situations where doing nothing may be harmfull ("Run! The Mountain-God has a stomach ache and is Angry!"). Some responses may be worse than doing nothing ("Let us save our tribe by throwing the virgins into the volcano!") but natural selection takes care of many of those over the long haul. That's why 'rule-of-thumb' religious lore tends to be correct - the tribe whose commandments began 'Kill Thy Neighbor' didn't last very long. Creating a mythology in our heads for how the universe works allows us to better anticipate and react, and encourages decisive action. Decisive action in the face of the unknown ("I've never before seen the food in this new valley, but dammit I'm hungry") can be advantagous at the species level - it can be a sort of insurance policy. With elements of a group reacting decisively to a crisis in various (perhaps arbitrary) ways, for most of the elements it will end badly. But it will end well for those whose decisive action turned out randomly to be right. In contrast, the survival of groups predisposed against decisive action are much more all-or-nothing. So if natural selection likes decisive action within a group, it doesn't care much about the source, be it charisma, religion, or science. All that matters are the outcomes. So why is religion so prevalant? It is easy to grab hold of - you don't have to think much, just follow the priest - and more immediately practical. The guy who say's "Run! The Mountain-God is Angry" gets his people out, the guy who say's "Wait a minute, the science is still inconclusive" does not. If the Mountain-God really is Angry, one group survives to spread their ways and the other does not. None of this rambling proves anything, even if, it backs up your angst against organized religion. When atheism becomes its own religion, that's hilarious.
Booster4324 Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 None of this rambling proves anything, even if, it backs up your angst against organized religion. When atheism becomes its own religion, that's hilarious. It is especially funny when you consider global warming. Not that I believe it is necessarily completely man-made, but LMAO.
Gene Frenkle Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 None of this rambling proves anything, even if, it backs up your angst against organized religion. When atheism becomes its own religion, that's hilarious. Right, the search for truth based on tangible evidence and predictable, testable theories is so religious. What a leap of faith critical thinking is!
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Right, the search for truth based on tangible evidence and predictable, testable theories is so religious. What a leap of faith critical thinking is! That we are even able to gather tangible evidence, and draw conclusions, could in itself be evidence of a power that we cannot fully grasp.
Gene Frenkle Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 That we are even able to gather tangible evidence, and draw conclusions, could in itself be evidence of a power that we cannot fully grasp. Yes, God did it. God of the Gaps. Whatever you want to call it. There's nothing more to debate once this argument has been used. It's as provable as it is unprovable, which is to say not at all. It's a dead-end conclusion which makes lots and lots of people feel content and stop thinking. As long as you're aware of what's going on, I've got no problem with whatever you want your belief system to be.
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Yes, God did it. God of the Gaps. Whatever you want to call it. There's nothing more to debate once this argument has been used. It's as provable as it is unprovable, which is to say not at all. It's a dead-end conclusion which makes lots and lots of people feel content and stop thinking. As long as you're aware of what's going on, I've got no problem with whatever you want your belief system to be. If it is not provable one way or the other, isn't it fascinating that people will insist on being atheist, when at best they should know they can only be agnostic. Don't be so sure that people with an evolving belief system, have stopped thinking. There are more things in heaven and earth, Gene Frenkle, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
X. Benedict Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 If it is not provable one way or the other, In fairness, neither are unicorns.
erynthered Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 In fairness, neither are unicorns. ......your post reminded me of song: A long time ago, when the Earth was green There was more kinds of animals than you've ever seen They'd run around free while the Earth was being born And the loveliest of all was the unicorn There was green alligators and long-necked geese Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born The loveliest of all was the unicorn The Lord seen some sinning and it gave Him pain And He says, "Stand back, I'm going to make it rain" He says, "Hey Noah, I'll tell you what to do Build me a floating zoo, and take some of those... Green alligators and long-necked geese Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born Don't you forget My unicorns Old Noah was there to answer the call He finished up making the ark just as the rain started to fall He marched the animals two by two And he called out as they came through Hey Lord, I've got green alligators and long-necked geese Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees Some cats and rats and elephants, but Lord, I'm so forlorn I just can't find no unicorns" And Noah looked out through the driving rain Them unicorns were hiding, playing silly games Kicking and splashing while the rain was falling Oh, them silly unicorns There was green alligators and long-necked geese Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees Noah cried, "Close the door because the rain is falling And we just can't wait for no unicorns" The ark started moving, it drifted with the tide The unicorns looked up from the rocks and they cried And the waters came down and sort of floated them away That's why you never see unicorns to this very day You'll see green alligators and long-necked geese Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born You're never gonna see no unicorns
X. Benedict Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 ......your post reminded me of song: You're never gonna see no unicorns [/indent] Only the Irish could live in a world created by a God that screwed over unicorns.
erynthered Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Only the Irish could live in a world created by a God that screwed over unicorns. ......and the music and lyrics were written by a Jew. Shel Silverstein. WTF did the Irish ever do to poor Shel??
X. Benedict Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 ......and the music and lyrics were written by a Jew. Shel Silverstein. WTF did the Irish ever do to poor Shel?? Clearly an anti-Celtite.
Typical TBD Guy Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 None of this rambling proves anything, even if, it backs up your angst against organized religion. When atheism becomes its own religion, that's hilarious. Your problem with atheism aside, to call finknottle's post "rambling" makes you come across as a total dumbass. He was using evolutionary biology to address a specific question you posed earlier: why is a belief in God so pervasive throughout humanity if one were to assume God does not exist? You do believe in evolutionary biology, don't you?
/dev/null Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Only the Irish could live in a world created by a God that screwed over unicorns. Your post reminded me of another song: http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=...b3ddcf9751005a1
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Charrrrliieeeeeee...Charrrrrlieeeeeeee...come to Candy Mountain Charliieee.
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