Keukasmallie Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Is there anything funnier than those protesting a major university's invitation to a commencement speaker who happens to hold a different opinion on a much-debated subject? Gee, you'd think that colleges and universities were seeking to expose students to all points of view...or something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Is there anything funnier than those protesting a major university's invitation to a commencement speaker who happens to hold a different opinion on a much-debated subject? Gee, you'd think that colleges and universities were seeking to expose students to all points of view...or something.... Except that's not the issue. The issue is whether they should honor the speaker (ie with a doctoral degree). What you call a 'much-debated subject' is one in which the Catholic Church has a very clear position. And intrinsic to the Church is the rejection of dissent - on basic issues, it is not up to the individual to interpret God's will. There is a mandate (dictate? Request? I'm not Catholic and don't care enough to follow it) that Catholic organizations only honor those who are in agreement with the basic tenents of the Church. Engagement and discussion is encouraged with all, regardless of their views. But honors are supposed to only go to those who are worthy and in-line with Church teachings. So the issue is not whether Obama should come speak, but simply whether he should be honored when he does. It's kinda like this: when Putin comes to the White House and gives a speech about cooperation in the 21st century, do we give him the Medal of Honor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Except that's not the issue. The issue is whether they should honor the speaker (ie with a doctoral degree). What you call a 'much-debated subject' is one in which the Catholic Church has a very clear position. And intrinsic to the Church is the rejection of dissent - on basic issues, it is not up to the individual to interpret God's will. There is a mandate (dictate? Request? I'm not Catholic and don't care enough to follow it) that Catholic organizations only honor those who are in agreement with the basic tenents of the Church. Engagement and discussion is encouraged with all, regardless of their views. But honors are supposed to only go to those who are worthy and in-line with Church teachings. So the issue is not whether Obama should come speak, but simply whether he should be honored when he does. It's kinda like this: when Putin comes to the White House and gives a speech about cooperation in the 21st century, do we give him the Medal of Honor? I know dozens of "good Catholics" who are not 100% pro-life -- and in many cases, affirmed pro-choice voters and regular church goers. Is the Catholic religion ONLY about abortion? What other tenets puts Obama on the "other side?" Care of the poor? Death Penalty? He's half-black? Is there a checklist? What makes a good catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 If all of these protesters are consistent and doing it for religious reasons, then where were they when GWBush gave the commencement at ND? He supports and actively enforced the death penalty in Texas, which is just as opposed to by the Catholic church as abortion. They had a few, but nothing like those against Obama. Let's face it, it's just another excuse for anti-Obama people to protest him, just like the teabaggers. They're free to do so, just like the protesters in Crawford were to protest Bush, but let's be honest on what this really is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 If all of these protesters are consistent and doing it for religious reasons, then where were they when GWBush gave the commencement at ND? He supports and actively enforced the death penalty in Texas, which is just as opposed to by the Catholic church as abortion. They had a few, but nothing like those against Obama. Let's face it, it's just another excuse for anti-Obama people to protest him, just like the teabaggers. They're free to do so, just like the protesters in Crawford were to protest Bush, but let's be honest on what this really is about. Good grief! How does a governor actively enforce the death penalty? The Catholic church BTW is not always against the death penalty, though it does generally oppose it. The Catechism states: "...the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty." (2266) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Will this affect ND's annual pre-season top 10 ranking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Good grief! How does a governor actively enforce the death penalty? The Catholic church BTW is not always against the death penalty, though it does generally oppose it. The Catechism states: "...the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty." (2266) Which validates the widely held conception that the Religious Rights Pro-Life stance begins at conception and ends at birth... I'm just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think the fact that people CAN and DO feel free to protest again proves that things are returning to normal in America. Those people are entitled to their opinions, and to express them. It would be too bad for the graduates if the protesters disrupt their day, so I do hope they will be well-behaved. Obama is not on campus to promote abortion. He's a great speaker and even if students don't agree with him it's a memory that will last a lifetime. There are always protests. This is getting a lot of press because that's what the media does. You can only stretch swine flu so far after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think the fact that people CAN and DO feel free to protest again proves that things are returning to normal in America. Protest against abortion, and that's just what people do and America is back to normal. Protest against spending, and you're all a bunch of racist douchebag teabaggers. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Protest against abortion, and that's just what people do and America is back to normal. Protest against spending, and you're all a bunch of racist douchebag teabaggers. Got it. Hey, I thought they're "a bunch of teabagging rednecks".... http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard...e-racists-claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Which validates the widely held conception that the Religious Rights Pro-Life stance begins at conception and ends at birth... Yes retard, "after murdering another human being" = "at birth". Anyhoo...onto the topic at hand. Gee, you'd think that colleges and universities were seeking to expose students to all points of view...or something.... Gee, you'd think you might actually read something about the issue before commenting. From the article: Those arrested included Norma McCorvey, the plaintiff identified as "Roe" in the Roe v. Wade case that led to the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion. She has since opposed abortion and was part of a 200-person protest at the university's gate. Uh...so is Norma now a student at ND? A 200 person protest at a college with a student body of 11,000? And why was the protest at the 'university gate' rather than in the main quad? Answer: because this all has little to do with ND or its student body. Unaffiliated radicals used the occasion as a means to draw attention, period. But as usual, the loudest (and dumbest) voices get the attention and nobody bothers to read beyond the headlines. Oh yeah...also from the article: Obama received a lengthy ovation from students and spectators when he walked onto the stage to deliver a speech expected to touch on the debate that has roiled the campus for weeks. Oh well. At least a lot of ignorant people got to take a free shot at a religion that isn't on the left wing's official "bigotry" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I know dozens of "good Catholics" who are not 100% pro-life -- and in many cases, affirmed pro-choice voters and regular church goers. Is the Catholic religion ONLY about abortion? What other tenets puts Obama on the "other side?" Care of the poor? Death Penalty? He's half-black? Is there a checklist? What makes a good catholic? I'm not defending the Church - indeed, I'm generally hostile to organized religion. I'm just clarifying what I understand to be the issue. There is a Bishop circular (or something with some fancy name) which say's you are not supposed to honor those at odds with the key tenents of the Church. *Whether* abortion should be considered one and the death penalty etc should not is a separate question - the Church is free to decide for itself which issues it considers important. But one thing that it is *not* is some kind of quasi-public club, where everybody gets a vote on the issues by virtue of their attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I watched the speech and I thought it was well done. Instead of dodging the issue, he took it on. This is one of those "agree to disagree" situations of which there are so many in life. The fact is NO-ONE knows who's right or who's wrong. That will only be known, perhaps, when we're called onward to...whatever IS onward, if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I watched the speech and I thought it was well done. Instead of dodging the issue, he took it on. This is one of those "agree to disagree" situations of which there are so many in life. The fact is NO-ONE knows who's right or who's wrong. That will only be known, perhaps, when we're called onward to...whatever IS onward, if anything. God does who is right and wrong, and He has spoken: Abortion is murder Philosophically speaking there is an absolute in right and wrong when taking innocent life: it is unethical and evil If they brought in someone for apartheid would anyone care? Those who think universities just exist for divergent opinions are liars, or ignorant. No one would think the re-institution of slavery as a talk would be permissible while giving them a degree of doctor, yet no issues here as long as many pretend it's just an opinion. The Catholic Church is a Divine institution and as such does not seek the opinions of outside influence as to what constitutes intrinsic evil. Catholics teach abortion is intrinsically evil. The problem here isn't an issue with Notre Dame, as much with the hierarchy for allowing Notre Dame to keep it's title as a Catholic university. If anything Keyes and the others should be protesting the chancellory and the Vatican to strip their title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 God does who is right and wrong, and He has spoken: Abortion is murderPhilosophically speaking there is an absolute in right and wrong when taking innocent life: it is unethical and evil I agree that abortion is evil, though not on the grounds that my imaginary friend told me so. edit: sorry, that was out of line...i despise the whole "word of god" thing, but i shouldn't mock those who do believe it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 The Catholic Church is a Divine institution and as such does not seek the opinions of outside influence as to what constitutes intrinsic evil. Catholics teach abortion is intrinsically evil. Divine my left foot. God never bestowed divinity on an institution created by man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Protest against abortion, and that's just what people do and America is back to normal. Protest against spending, and you're all a bunch of racist douchebag teabaggers. Got it. Hi, my name's Pot. This is my black friend, Kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Protest against abortion, and that's just what people do and America is back to normal. Protest against spending, and you're all a bunch of racist douchebag teabaggers. Got it. Speaking of tea baggers When you hold banners calling Obama Hitler, or accuse him of White Slavery, then yes they were a bunch of racist douchebag teabaggers. Or these http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/331467...pg?v=1235761309 http://washingtonindependent.com/wp-conten...04/img_2429.jpg http://washingtonindependent.com/wp-conten...34-1024x768.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Protest against abortion, and that's just what people do and America is back to normal. Protest against spending, and you're all a bunch of racist douchebag teabaggers. Got it. As usually, you don't get it, in fact you totally missed the point. Or perhaps you weren't aware that when Bush was president there were "protest zones" set far, far away from where The Great Man would be. Hence no danger, and no media coverage. Today that's no longer true - people can protest right outside, like they did. And when they heckled the President of the United States of America, and the crowd reacted negatively, he graciously calmed them down saying "that's all right" until the disruption subsided. Now kindly scuttle back under your rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Divine my left foot. ... Ok, I'll try. I see toes. Five or six of them, the image is hazy. I also see a bump of some sort, a corn perhaps? No. It's a bunion. Definately a bunion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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